Chainplate and standing rigging update

[Jim Henerberry]

Hello again,

I have finally completed my chainplate replacement.  I sent pictures a while ago of the starboard side.  The port side got complicated by rotted ceiling strips, a leaking port forward lower, and trying not to muck up the berth area too much.  I'm happy with the structural results and ok with the cosmetics.  As reminder I went with layers of plywood, straight chainplates (stock from Shaefer Marine).  I added the 3/8" G10 plates and used butyl to seal it all up.

With everything finally back together (after six weeks of work--not every day nor long hours, but still the bulk of the sailing season, luckily I also enjoy canoeing, camping, hiking and all that), I went sailing yesterday in around 20 knots with full sail--exhilerating.  I found the top of the mast still falling off to leeward event tith the upper and intermediate shrouds buttomed out on the turnbuckles. as well as giant sag in the head stay.

This leaves me with two remaining questions for the group.  First, as suggested by Tom at Rigging Only (great supplier of rigging supplies and information nearby me in Fairhaven, MA-next to New Bedford), since it is unlikely for the 1 x 19 wire to have stretched that much, could the mast be "sinking" into the mast step.  I'm heading to the boat momentarily to explore that possibility more closely.  At one point in original major refit in 2012-2013, I noticed the shrouds, when I grabbed them for support would crinkle in a way I've never heard or felt before.  When I finally got around to tuning the rig before sailing back to MA, I found the wire was spun many turns (maybe ten) which had "unlaid" the outer strands.  It all settled back into position once I released the turns.  Tom suggested that having the outer layers unlaid may have allowed the inners to stretch. 

If I can confirm that the mast is not sinking into the bilge, I will shorten the shrouds using Sta-Loc fittings and see if I can get proper tension to keep everything straight on both tacks.

Second, on the headstay sag, I wonder how many of your have backstay adjusters, what kind and how much difference it makes on the headstay sag.  To my eye on my boat it seems excessive.  I can waggle the headstay at rest pretty easily.  I'm lusting for the discontinued Harken B501 that tensions with a which handle.  If you know where I can get one , please let me know.  Seems pretty bullet proof without all the concerns and rebuilding required by hydraulics.

Thanks in advance for any info.  I did read through the earlier posts on mast steps and couldn't quite tell wheter anyone had experienced the sinking mast phenomenon.

Jim

P40, Lottie B, #123

[CAZ]

Jim,

FYI, I have no backstay adjuster. Have Sta-Locs on all standing rigging. Have not experienced any mast step sag. Replaced my chain plates using life caulk on stbd side. Butyl on port. Port side is winning. Have been able to get my mast straight without running out of turnbuckle threads. Would recommend replacing standing rigging cables.

Bill Caz.

1984 P40, hull 63

Beau Navire 

[Marty McOmber]

I have P40 #75, keep stepped rig. I pulled the stick last year to fix a leak around the partners and do a bunch of other upgrades. That allowed me to solve the mystery of what the mast step is on my boat. During the original purchase survey, they noted that there was rotted plywood in front of the step and it was unclear at the time whether that was structural. It was not. The plywood was used apparently to form the mold for the maststep, which in my case was a solid block of epoxy and fiber. 

I suppose in theory this block could disintegrate. But I have a hard time believing that would happen. Not sure if other owners have thoughts on the mast step construction.   

Sent from my iPad

--
--
Passport Owners Association http://passportyachts.org
To post to the group, use "reply all" or send email to Passpor...@googlegroups.com
To reply to just the author, just use "reply:
For more options, go to
http://groups.google.com/group/PassportOwners?hl=en
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Passport Owners" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to PassportOwner...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Bill Schmidt]

Sometimes I stay away from commenting while reading the threads herein, but this time I worry. Jim, mast compression in your boat, at it's age, would be highly likely if it a keel stepped mast. But, if like many Passports, it is a deck stepped mast, it is highly unlikely. So, what else could be the explanation?

    Passport/ Perry designed boats are and from inception, "squishy" boats. The reason for such is the lack of a bracing cross member amidships. Look at the Valiant 40. It has a midship crossing bulkhead. The P 40 does not. Under load, the gunnels maybe sucked inward as the mast is driven downward. With poor cross member support, the stem can also flex! OK, now, things get REALLY bad. What if the bulkheads,incomplete as they are, are rotten or the tabbing of the bulkheads have pulled away from the hull? Remember, nearly all of the P40s have had the knees pull loose from the hull. Further consider that wire rigging, if never replaced in 30+ years, will deteriorate more internally first rather than outside. Has your wire rigging ever been replaced? The description you give of your boat's rigging is just plain scary.  Now, I suppose I should also conjure up the possibility that the aluminum spreader tips, constantly in contact with the steel shrouds (aka known as a battery of dissimilar metals) may be badly corroded and collapsing.

    Has any of this been observed in this most beloved of boats? The answer is Yes. All of these have been observed. Lets hope that all of this is never found in one aging boat.

Billy Manana,O.O. (original owner), 1983 P40,Wind Witch

[Matthew Davidson]

Bill

Wow... very enlighting points to check. I will add your inspection ideas to my list when I pumm my mast next year.

Matthew

Wildflower

[Jim Henerberry]

Hello All,

Thanks for the replies.  Billy, I'm particularly moved by your concern for me and my boat and have some answers for you.

I got to the boat after posting yesterday and took a good long look at the mast base and step.  Everything there looks very good.  There is no deflection,  and no signs of sinking, rust, or rot.  I'm satisfied that the mast is not sinking nor does it seem to have been shortened.

I've spent a lot of time in the rig and have inspected the spreader tips and they are all in good shape with no corrosion.

My 1987 boat has the pullman with a full bulkhead separating the cabin.  I bolted the new chainplates directly to the bulkhead and in do that work got a good look at the tabbing and found everything in good shape with no signs of delamination, shifting, or other scary possibilities.

The one thing that I will think more about is replacing the standing rigging due to the wire having been "spun."  Before that, I'm going to replace all the bottom swages with Sta Loc fittings, shortening them in the process giving me the chance to see if I can get the rig properly tuned.  I'll be able to do this at a fairly low investment of $$ and time.

Last, I have located (I think) one of the discontinued Harken backstay tensioners and will install that to deal with the sagging headstay.

Oh, the joys of boat ownership, or is that better said being owned by a boat???

Jim

P40 Lottie B, #123