Engine Driven Fridge Compressor support frame.
jpwither
Michael
I had a similar dual setup, as many do, I suppose. The ac compressor worked great but the engine-driven was awkwardly located and failed after a recharge from the service guys. (Line exploded while I was under the cockpit, which was a bit scary)
The old system was freon (R12), and asking all the vendors, it seemed like a new compressor system using the old plate was not seen as a good idea, though the prime issue was whether you could get the internal tubing clean enough not to contaminate the new system.
At the end of the day, I went with a Technautics system, including new plate. It's DC only and was very easy to install. It's also pretty darned efficient. There are likely others that meet this description.
In retrospect, I wished I had kept the AC compressor and just driven it with an inverter for weekend use. For extended cruising, however, this might not have been such a good choice, but certainly acts as a transitional or stopgap choice. Were I to consider that, I'd measure the current draw of the AC compressor to see whether this might be an attractive option. The way I figure it, it does not matter what the draw is when the engine is on because there is plenty of "free" electricity available after the first five minutes or so of charging, but at anchor I'd not want to spend more than 10A (and preferably 4A like the Technautics I have installed) on refrigeration. I think you'll find that 10A at 12V = 120 Watts, which I guess would be 1/2 A at 240V, so maybe that is helpful information.
Good luck!
Michael
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John Warren
90s. We still have the original set up for freezer and refrigerator because
I have never been able to bring myself to tearing out all the tile on the
counter tops...maybe some day. The Glacier Bay system has run extremely
well over the years and is still running very well today, however it is a
fairly big energy suck on the boat. The freezer portion of our set up has
two large holding plates as we have a fairly large freezer compartment.
Everything that comes out of our freezer is like a brick...frozen solid. We
make lots of ice daily with two little aluminum trays. I'm sure our set up
would be much better if we tore out the existing/original compartments and
installed a more modern system using better insulation.
I think our freezer works so well because we have two large holding plates
in that particular compartment. We're in LaPaz, Mexico and it's been fairly
hot for the past three weeks and the only difference I see in the system is
the cycle times have increased due to the warmer temps inside the boat and
on the hull.
BTW...I talk to lots of boats down here that are using a system called
Frigiboat (not sure of spelling) and have nothing but good reports. They
tell me that their freezers work well and the system has a very low energy
consumption....12V systems with keel coolers.
Take care....
--
Larry Rovin
ChinaDoll
originally built to what you've described: 1/2 HP York engine driven
compressor with a 1/4 HP 110V "pallet" compressor on dual circuit cold
plates in both frig/frz. The freezer had 'Dole Banana Boat' 200 Lbs
seawater galvanized-metal cold plates --these were huge! I converted
the entire system to two Isotherm compressors: Very small air cooled
(can hold in the palm of your hand) BD50 with an evaporator in the
freezer and the largest single compressor / plate combo in 12V, water
cooled, BD80 for the frig with automatic start-up (ASU feature). The
entire system now runs easily off of just the solar panels (230 Watts
panel total).
Once the huge cold plates were removed from the freezer, there was a
ton of room leftover and the boat was nearly 200 Lbs lighter... The
evaporator running off the small air cooled BD50 compressor (mounted
in the engine room with no problems) works best for the freezer. What
never worked was attempting to run the old 110V compressor off of a
battery bank using an inverter, because no matter what AC voltage you
use, the conversion back to 12V is still needed and the amp draw with
kill a 1000 Amp-Hour house bank fairly quickly. So no matter if you're
pulling 5 Amp 240VAC or 10 Amp 110VAC, you're still killing your
battery bank with better than 120 Amp-Hours for a 12V system (sorry
Michael).
(This doesn't even include the excessive heat built up on the boat
from running the inverter, 1/4HP compressor, hot batteries, and then
finally the engine and/or the generator just to recharge the battery
banks --going that direction doesn't work... This is also the worst
type of load on a battery bank as it is very similar to a resistive
heater type load --very high amp loads over a 'short' period of time
vs. low amp loads over a long period of time...)
For our installation I was unable to use the Frigiboat system (or
other brands of 12V system on the market) in the frig because those
systems were too small for the calculated heat load for the size of
the box space and 4-inch foam insulation; the only manufacturer at the
time that was using the new BD80 compressor was Isotherm; the BD50 on
the frig was too small and was (is?) the largest offered by Frigiboat.
Note that water cooling works best for cold plates and air cooling is
best for evaporators. Also, evaporators are best for freezing vs. cold
plates --cold plates create a variation in temps as this is how the
holdover works but this cycling is not the best thing for food
(biologicals) preservation.
(While the boat is out of the water (happens about once every 3 years
for maintenance), I can use the air cooled frz set to frig temps while
the water cooled unit is unusable while hauled...)
On the old system the engine driven compressor was an operational
hazard to the boat as it once threw a belt and knocked off the engine
water pump / alternator belt causing me to shutdown the engine while
we were navigating a very strong river current on the San Joanquin
river in Northern California, in a narrow channel all while passing a
large ship! After returning the the docks in Sausalito, that's when I
ripped out the old engine driven compressor and happily threw it off
the boat --engine bracket, compressor, and all! It made accessing my
engine sooo much better and removed my operational hazard from the
boat! Needless to say, I attempted to run the frig/frz over the next
five years off the batteries using the inverter (when off grid) and
the 110VAC 1/4 HP compressor... This was no good for the battery
bank(s) and was an unmanageable and costly situation as the batteries
didn't get anywhere near their normal service life. (So I cannot
recommend that route if you're planning any off grid --no marina--
cruising...)
HTH!
-Rob.
Donal Botkin
My solution was to pull all the 12 volt inverter parts and run the compressor off of the boat's inverter and create a closed-loop, fan and radiator cooling system for the condenser. That worked fine and is still going strong after 10 years. It's a total McGuyver, but hey, it was an inexpensive fix.
For the 'future' of reefers look at the hybrid vehicle solution: 200+ volt, 3-phase AC motors driving tiny compressors on the F134 air conditioner system. If the trend continues, look for more boats with either high voltage DC or AC replacing 12v battery power. Lithium batteries are getting cheaper and inverters more efficient, so this might be an area to watch.
No way I'd consider an engine-driven system due to the side-loading on the main bearing and oil seals from the power-hungry compressor. There was a Stirling engine Peltier junction reefer at the boat show in Alameda a few years back--very high efficiency claimed. Many $$, little noise.
Here's a listing for a junior version from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Stirling-Cooler-Adaptor-Included/dp/B000A1FCIE
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Michael
The clutch on the thing was electric, and pulled five amps all by
itself! More power than my new fridge!
ChinaDoll
sources too) converted to 3 ph. AC (but at a voltage that is nothing
like what your 230/110 VAC inverter puts out). Both of these Danfoss
compressors (technology-wise) are --what are used today-- in the
electric car industry (hybrids too) as the climate control systems.
I am not too interested in the Sterling-designed system as they are
based upon absorption-drip (think: ammonia-drip units used in RV
frigs) and are required to remain fairly vertical in installation and
use-wise, as these units also require significant vertical space
directly above the icebox so they can 'drip'... (The problem on
sailboats is these systems become very inefficient and can even stop
working as/when the boat heels!)
It's funny that Michael points out the clutch on the engine drive
compressor uses 5 amps --as this is all the amps needed to run the
BD50 freezer setup at 12V (more like 4 amps running in variable speed
mode --one of the many benefits of the 3 ph. AC setup, air cooled
condenser, and having a thin-walled evaporator in the freezer)...
On your comment about having a closed-loop on the condenser, I had
contemplated running SS finned tubing along the inside of the boat's
keel-socket (that area usually under your engine were the keel 'cap'
is located); this setup can easily handle my calculated heat load for
the BD80 running the frig. It would take about a five-foot run around
the top of the keel inside the boat (not outside) to do the trick.
(Plus you'd have the added benefit of keeping the bilge dry!)
-Rob.
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Michael
misremembering how a Stirling Engine (which, if driven, becomes a
Stirling Compressor) works. It is a totally closed system. Of course,
the heat extracted by the compressor needs to be thrown away somewhere.
Maybe it's a keel cooler, maybe it's the sea, or maybe it's the
miserable swamp cooler you describe. That would be a pretty low-tech
solution to a high tech product.
These go in cell towers and space ships (never mind that they were
invented in the 1800s)
But Stirling is expensive.
So...
M
Donal Botkin
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Donal Botkin
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1 Peninsula Rd Gate B
Belvedere, CA 94920
Michael
non-cold beer!
Tragic.
According to my reading, any gas will wirk in a Stirling unit, but the
lighter the better, with Hydrogen and Helium at the top of the list.
Paradoxically, freon would be around the worst thing you could use.
Ammonia too, I suppose.
M
Donal Botkin
The only thing that recommends Stirling is low power and efficiency. Not a high capacity or low cost solution for a freezer in a boat.
The 'closed loop' on my boat moves the heat from the condenser to a fan coil unit near the transom where the hot air is exhausted. It is quieter that way.
Donal Botkin
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1 Peninsula Rd Gate B
Belvedere, CA 94920
China Doll
This unit with a mag bearing /drive pump required the 'compressor-condenser' [a medium-sized propane-cyclinder shaped 'thingy' with long fins radiating around the helium tank] to be installed high above the evaporator; a boat owner's blog who'd installed one complained that it would stop working as the boat's heel increase.
I'd no room to mount anything like that above my frig especially if it needed gimbaling! Also that unit got really really hot -perhaps a testament to it cooling power? Then, if it ever were to leak, I'd be looking for local cryogenic supplies(?).
-Rob.
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Matthew Davidson
Removed the old Crosby 12V motor driven system from the cave area. Our old system had two big dual pass 134a Crosby holding plates for frig/freeze respectively. I was able to remove the holding plates and send them to Technautics for brazing new fittings, recharge, leak testing and environmental chamber performance test. Just recieved reconditioned units and remounted the Crosby plates over the weekend. Also completed installation of twin Technautics compressor units in the cave. Our setup will be two independent units.
I anticipate the refrigerator side to have very little demand with freezer next door. Since we have pretty sweet digital blue sea meters on the electrical panel... I should be able to record some valuable feedback on Amp and Watt load demand with run time.
The Crosby holding plates are pretty massive so I would guess the initial freeze cycle will be a big load but after that... the system should idle along easily.
We shall see very soon as it's about to fire in a few days!
Matthew on SV WILDFLOWER