Re-powering a P40

[Jim Melton]

Fellow Passporters,

First, I'd like to state my belated gratitude for the answers and advice
you've given me with respect to two recent questions: living elsewhere,
and selecting a spinnaker. I've been negligent in responding with my
appreciation.

Now, I have a new question, this one about re-powering a P40. Dream
SeQueL is hull #018 and has a Pathfinder engine, which I have mostly
liked. Recently, however, we've had a couple of unpleasant experiences
with it that has left my wife wondering if re-powering might not be
worth considering.

The most recent event was that the engine timing belt (drives the
camshaft and fuel injection pump from the crankshaft) broke while I was
starting the engine (thank goodness it wasn't while running at high RPM
under load!). I got myself towed into a marina, and replaced the belt.
The engine would not rotate after doing this, and a conversation with
John Scherer at Pathfinder Marine resulted in a diagnosis of a bent
valve. I spent a couple of days partly disassembling my engine so we
could remove the cylinder head, and a diesel mechanic picked it up
yesterday.

This morning, I got a call from the mechanic who said that, between his
own observations and a conversation with Pathfinder Marine, the
conclusion is that I need a remanufactured cylinder head (roughly $900,
plus shipping, labor, et al). This obviously restarted my wife's
discussion about re-powering.

I know that some of you have repowered your P40s. Can you give me a
ballpark estimate of the costs, kinds of work required, and time taken
to do such a job?

Thanks!
Jim


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Jim Melton SheltieJim at xmission dot com
1930 Viscounti Drive, Sandy, UT 84093-1063
Assistant Director, National Sheltie Rescue Network
Shelties since 1969; ASSA member since 1992
Please visit Sheltie Rescue of Utah, Inc. at
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Saving The World, One Sheltie At A Time

[psherwood]

I spent ~$6K-$7K rebuilding my existing Perkins a few years ago in
Panama, where even a top-flight mechanic cost a lot less than one in the
US. The job took seven or eight weeks.

I'd think repowering in the States with an out-of-the-crate Beta,
Yanmar, Perkins, or whatever you choose would run $20K-$25K. In addition
to the motor, a repower would probably entail adjustments to the
stringers, motor mounts, raw water intake line, and exhaust system, and
maybe to the wiring harness. Having the motor out would be a great time
to check out and maybe modernize the muffler (as well as update bilge
plumbing). And, how's your transmission doing? Also very high hours?
Maybe time for a rebuild there?

I don't know Pathfinders -- can they be resleeved and rebuilt and serve
stoutly and reliably for another 10,000 hours? Or do rebuilds tend not
to fare so well? Are all the needed parts (or aftermarket equivalents)
still available? Sounds as though you're about to have fun with Ye Olde
Cost-Benefit Analysis.

Phil
s/v Cynosure
Seattle/San Carlos

[Bill Schmidt]

We repowered Wind Witch in 2002 with a Yanmar diesel. We had the exhaust
system replaced including the ports of the keel muffler with 3" exhaust
throughout. We also had the engine bed rebuilt so that the engine sat
flat rather than canted. The cost at that time was $25,000 which seemed
excessive. More recently Michael M. did a similar, but more limited
replacement on Cayenne for +/- $35,000, I believe. Don Fife replaced
the Pathfinder on Bugler with a rebuilt short block Pathfinder himself.
A lot of work and a lot of trouble shooting as well. I do not know the
overall cost, but hopefully it was a lot less, if only in money. You
should specifically query him about his overall experience. Hope this is
hjelpful. We do love our Yanmar of course.

Billy Manana

[John Baudendistel]

The hardest thing on Don's rebuild was translating Eva's German notes on the wiring as we pulled it all apart. It's working super!

Thanks
John Baudendistel

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[Alcoop]

Last year I got estimates here in SF bay area from two dealers for re-powering with a Yanmar or a Beta. They both were less then $15K with  the Beta about 1K less then the Yanmar. Both said cost of installation was about a bit less then cost of the engine about 12-13k if no problems. Probably will be a bit more as the exhaust system on the Yanmar is wider then on my Perkins so more work. Also engine mounts, prop shaft and even prop might also need replacing as well as wanting a non-stock high output alternator and maybe new modern regulator. So minimum of 25K if you do some of the work. Max of 35K if you go all the way

Allen

SV/ Krissy P40, 1987

[Tim Bowie]

Jim,

I use to own a Passport 40 with a Pathfinder engine.  A couple of years ago I thought about doing a repower but experienced sticker shock and decided to rebuild most of the external components instead.  The quotes I received ranged from $18k to $20k with me doing a lot of the work. I planned to have the mechanic just remove the old engine and install/align the new engine.  I was going to disconnect the old engine and do all the connections to the new engine. 

The Pathfinder/VW engine is shorter than the other engines so you will need to haul the boat out and have the prop shaft shortened.  I looked at a number of different engines and  I would have gone with a Beta Marine engine, it requires a 2" exhaust and at the time did not have any electronics.  The newer Yanmars have electronics and require a 3" exhaust. 

You may want to look at getting a used head instead of rebuilding the old. VW made several million of those engines so there should be some good engines around.

Tim 

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:02:23 AM UTC-7, SheltieJim wrote:

[Michael Moradzadeh]

Michael (Ex-CAYENNE) here

My bill was way on the high side, from a few issues.

First, I used a super expensive yard. Sadly, their "good" engine guy was out, so there was a lot of busy work.

Second, I went for the 52hp engine to replace the old Nanni 42. This required upsizing a number of things.  It was nice to have the extra power, but in retrospect, I wish I had gone with the 39, which would likely have been a performance improvement and may have allowed a number of existing items, including the prop, to be used.

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[Donald Fife]

Sorry I'm late on a Pathfinder replacement or replace with another diesel. Hard to get internet where I'm at.
I'm a member with the Pathfinder group in Canada for parts and such. They recommended purchasing a rebuilt 1.6 long block for less than $2,000 US. Pulled the old engine through the upper hatch utilizing the main halyard (with Bill, John and Eva as supervisors) put on the marine parts and replaced the engine in its original place. I also cleaned up and added new motor mounts before reinstalling. After taking the exhaust/ heat exchanger off I found that it was leaking inside of the aluminum cast set up. Oh shi. ... I called U.K. Who made the original and they still had the cast to make a new one! What a relief. Cost with shipping about $1,500. So... all cost with blood sweat and tears was less than $5,000.
I have put over 350 hours on since the rebuild and feel good about saving $$.
The down side is the engine is old and small parts can be hard to get and take time to find.
Getting a 1.6 VW diesel rebuild is easy. Lots available.
Depends on what you can do yourself as I did saving the cost of professional mechanics verses your labor. For me I have learned more than I need to be a competent Pathfinder mechanic to know if something is wrong with the engine and then fix it.
The newer engines are much more complicated to diagnose problems and fix yourself. I like the KISS system. It works for me.
SV Bugler

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 3, 2017, at 9:16 AM, Bill Schmidt <bi...@windwitch.com> wrote:
>

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[Eva]

I hope that when the time comes to replace our Pathfinder I have Don at my side ‼️ Ours is still running fine!
(Knock on wood)

Sent from my iPhone, thus expect the likelihood of miss spells ....
Eva
~~ /) ~~

[Rick Hurt]

This company sells 1.6L long blocks for $2,300.

https://www.partsplaceinc.com/pathfinder-sailboat

Rick Hurt

[Bill Schmidt]

Would that work on my Zodiac?

Billy Manana

[mska...@gmail.com]

Hello

I am new to the user group. We bought "Perfect Fit" our Passport 40 (hull 85) last year and we reppwered with a Beta 43. The engine price was $14,500 and the labor price was about $4500 for the basic installation but needed additional work done. We were very happy with Dependable Marine who installed the boat in Maryland. We are now s sailing Dutch Harbor Marina Rhode Island. And the engine has been great.

Mark Kassis