Rule 3000 Bilge Pump System Issues - Passport 41
Ross Hoag
Rule 3000 Bilge Pump Issues
My Passport 41 has two Rule 3000 bilge pumps - one setup as the primary and one as a high water backup. The backup sits at the bottom of the bilge with the primary but it has a solid state switch that is mounted high in the bilge. The primary has the typical Rule float switch in a housing at the bottom of the bilge.
Other setup info:
The primary is plumbed into 1.5” hose, which has a large brass flapper type check valve in it close to the bottom next to the pump to keep water from back flowing. The hose then leads up under the prop shaft then out and across to the Port side where it goes up into a anti-siphon loop with small joker valve - I pulled and inspected it and it looks like new.
The backup pump is plumbed to a 1.5” line that goes directly into the cockpit hand bilge pump intake. The hand pump, by its nature, has a check valve of some sort as part of its mechanism.
The problem:
Thinking I should test the whole setup to make sure that it does in fact work I put a hose in the forward bilge to see what would happen. On the first go the primary turned on as expected (switch was good) but the pump only ran but did not seem pump anything, seemed like the line was plugged or the pump was air locked or cavitating. No worries the backup should kick in and save the day. Not quite, it came on as expected but did almost the same thing, it was turning but it could not overcome the head or back pressure to get things flowing. I went out and put the handle in the manual pump and barely touched it when it broke free (internal check valve opened) and the back up pump quickly drained the bilge.
Needless to say, this did not leave me with a big warm fuzzy as far as the reliability of my bilge pump system – zero for two on the first test. Thinking the big check valve on the primary side might be sticky I pulled it and took it all part but it looks and works great not sticky at all. Seems to have very little resistance to it if any (gravity or water weight activated).
On the backup side I have no idea what the internals are of the manual pump but it is clear that my large bilge pump will not overcome it reliably unless I start pumping it a bit then it flows freely for at least that pump cycle. Clearly this is a bad design and I am wondering if any of you have a similar setup or had similar problems. I plan to figure out a way to bypass the manual pump and route the backup bilge directly to the thru hull aft. I can sort out how to get the manual pump back in the loop later. If needed I add will another thru hull when I haul out next.
My big dilemma is what to do next on the primary side. The pump is new, replaced the first one for the same reason, I thought it was bad but clearly it is not. I have taken all the points of failure/constriction apart and did not find anything. I also checked the thru hull to be sure it was not clogged. In the end I hooked up the shop-vac to the bilge line and blew it out. I have hooked it all back up and it works maybe 8 out of 10 times then seems to get vapor locked (runs and pumps but not at full capacity). It seems from my testing that the pump is seeing too much backpressure from the head and all the hose in the system. Cavitation seems to be the root of the problem, which is a pump impellor design issue that cannot be overcome without changing the backpressure/head or by changing to a different pump with published specifications within my pressure range.
Has anyone else experienced this or anything similar? I removed the check value to be sure it was not the problem. The system oscillates (cycles) without the check value due to the large amount of water that flows back into the bilge from the long line to the anti-siphon fitting. The pump switch does not have enough hysteresis built into it given my setup.
I am not sure where to go from here, maybe try to find a better pump that comes with a flow/head graph so I know what it can do and be confident that it will work in my setup. Any thoughts or ideas from other Passport owners would be much appreciated.
I live a long way from my boat, so the thought of having her sitting at the dock with two pumps that may or may not actually pump is unsettling!
Ross
S/V Pekina
John Baudendistel
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Ross Hoag
The update would be that I have checked every element in the flow path from the primary bilge pump to the thru-hull and there are no restrictions in the check valve or anti-siphon fitting. The problem is truly is due to too much rise (head or back pressure) from the bottom of the bilge to the top of the anti-siphon fitting which is about 8 feet which seems to be just about the limit for the Rule 3000 pump before cavitation occurs. Removing the check valve makes no difference.
Looking for options to get a bit more reliability/repeatability out of the current setup with either a new higher head producing pump or by lowering the anti-siphon valve and/or raising the pump. I would hate to lower the anti-siphon fitting as it seems to me to be in the correct spot - as high as it can physically be, just under the side deck.
Ross
Bill Schmidt
Ross, I took the bilge pump out of the bilge on Wind Witch. I bought a "Water Puppy" which I mounted along side of the diesel. The only item in the bilge is the uptake screen and a "diving bell" for the Groco switch (which is also mounted at floor level away from all corrosive juices. This allows for the pump to both suck and blow when activated. The other thing I hand built is a time delay relay which runs the pump for about 30" after the Groco turns off. This purges the residual water in the system. I, too, have a one way valve in the line so that, when sailing on a port tack in rough weather, the line won't back siphon and fill the bilge under any circumstance. BTW, check the anti-siphon fitting on top of the loop. It often gets full of debris and/or guck which prevents it's opening to relieve suction pressure when the system shuts down. The system is now > 30 years old and has never failed.
Billy Manana
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