Starter Assist Solenoid Help

[David Smith]

I have two starter assist solenoids connected to my Pathfinder engine. These are in addition to the solenoid on the starter. This was recommended years ago by John at Pathfinder to alleviate the voltage drop from starting panel, and was suppose to help the starter last longer, with the addition of a 2nd solenoid. 

The starter was not turning over, batteries have juice, and I by passed the first solenoid by jumping across the two small terminals on the top of the solenoid, to see if it was a problem with the solenoid.The starter engaged and the engine started. So I replaced the solenoid, and it worked fine. Here is the solenoid I replaced:

Cole Hersee 24059 12V Insulated

Continuous Duty SPST 

Solenoid Part number: 24059-08 the 08 designates it as a Marine Listed . 

The label reads:

CE rated, Marine UL listed 7078, 

Continous Rating 65 amp 12 volt

Intermittent Rating

750A Make, 100 A Break, 10 sec on, 30 min off

Ignition protected

Cole Hersee Boston USA

NO. 24059-08

ISO 8846 Marine. 

Yesterday, the starter would not engage again ( I previously checked the switch), and so I tried jumping across the new solenoids two small terminals again, and the starter would not engage. Then I jumped across the tow large terminals on the solenoid and the starter engaged. So I am thinking it may be the other solenoid that I believe also is used for the glow plugs, but I am not sure. This solenoid is rusted so I can not see any numbers on it, so I do not know what the rating is for it. I can not find any information on it, and when I called PartsPlace, they said they had never seen one on a VW Diesel...

SO does any one know what the stats are for this Starter Assist Solenoid Relay? Any suggestions for what else could be wrong?  The best way to test a Solenoid?

Thanks in advance

Dave 

Magic Carpet Ride

hull number 32, PYE400320183

[Michael Moradzadeh]

On my Pathfinder, there is a solenoid for the glow plugs, but the starter is wired directly from the panel.

"Solenoid" is used in two contexts in this discussion.

INSIDE the starter, applying power to the solenoid energizes the electromagnet, causing a pinion gear to move to engage the chainring and turn the crankshaft. Simultaneously, it closes the heavy-duty contacts to energize the starter motor and spin the pinion gear, causing the engine to start.

The other solenoids, those used for the glow plugs and, apparently, as helper solenoids, are also known as "relays". THey are simpler: the energized coil pulls a small contact closed, allowing a greater current to be controlled with a lesser one. So, a weak or low amperage electrical "signal" from the panel may more readily control a greater draw, such as the glow plugs or starter motor or, in your case, starter solenoid.

We had to replace our glow plug solenoid last year, which was a pretty straightforward operation.

It sounds odd that you need a "Starter Assist" solenoid.  Normally, there should be ample voltage and current from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid terminals to get everything purring away.  May I suggest a few steps?

1.  Bypass the "helper" solenoid entirely.  And/or listen to it when turning the key. Has the solenoid failed?

2.  Consider whether your starter battery is just.... old.  Fresh battery can do wonders, and let you dump that "helper"

3.  Possibly your ignition key assembly has corroded contacts.  Replace.

4.  It IS a long run from the panel to the starter, and unless you are prepared to upgrade the doubtless corroded wires, a helper solenoid may be required regardless. Any old thing from West Marine should do.  Wires from the starter panel and ground go to the small terminals. Cables from Starter Battery and Starter terminal go to big terminals

Sorry if this repeats stuff you already know.

Michael

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[Chip Ewing]

Hi David, did you ever solve this problem? The same thing is happening on my boat. Part of the problem is the not using a good cold cranking starter battery. Sometimes it turns over fine, sometime times very slowly and other times not at all. Sometimes if you mash the starter button repeatly it cranks right over.

Chip Ewing
Sideways
Puerto Villarta

[John Warren]

Starting problems normally come from two sources. 1) Good grounds, good
grounds and good grounds. Go to all the ground connections and make sure
that they are clean. 2) In some cases the wires from the instrument
panel to the engine are too long and have too much resistance. The normal
fix for that is a small relay at the engine.

I didn¹t see the original question, but I hope this helps somewhat.

Warren Peace
LaPaz, Baja Sur, Mexico

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[rcyoung]

I haven't had boat starter issues but I did have a Kubota diesel utility vehicle starting problem. I replaced the battery (a load tester indicated the battery was marginal), but still had a problem. Then I replaced the starter with a new one. Same problem. Next was the ignition key socket. Since I always left the key in the ignition, it was easy for water to wick in, I guess. New key socket solved the problem. I no longer leave the key in and I do better job of covering the dashboard of the outdoor stored vehicle. Starts up like a charm now.

Regards,

Bob

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

[Jon Ash]

Tracking down this issue on Caribbean Soul showed the wires suppling current to the starting solenoid were not adequate after years of corrosion.  The starting solenoid required 12 to 15 Amps to pull in the contacts and provide the 12 v to the armature of the starter. Solution was a secondary solenoid needing only 4 amps to close the contact. Move the key positive to the low amp solenoid and take off the battery terminal on the high current solenoid and supply the low current solenoid with full amperage at the input contact terminal the output terminal goes to the input terminal of the high current solenoid. 

Turn the key and close the low current solenoid suppling max current to the high current solenoid when that closes it supplies max current to the high current solenoid on the starter. Pulling in the high current solenoid with full battery current thru # 4 or larger conductor. The starter will engage with authority every time. 

Photos available. 

[Chip Ewing]

As a follow up, after smashing the starter button no longer worked I checked the batter terminal posts one last time. The wing nuts seemed snug but one was too hot to touch. With a pair of chanel locks I was able to get several more turns on it and all of the other battery post I was able to get at least 1/2 turn. The engine cranks right over now and the terminals don't get hot.

[psherwood]

My very recent experience with the starter button not working: There are
two plug-together connectors in the wiring harness, one in the engine
compartment at the aft end of the engine, and one behind the instrument
panel. Ensuring they were clean and reconnected firmly restored normal
functionality. The one behind the instrument panel was likely the
culprit -- crappy connection preventing voltage from getting from the
push button Out side to the relay.

I got to that point by ever-diminishing circles:

-- I could start the engine by jumping across the solenoid terminals
with a screwdriver (Perkins 4.108 engine), so I knew the solenoid and
starter motor were OK even though pushing the start button produced no
results, not even a clicking sound.

-- The relays all tested out good -- 12 v to the 85 terminal, negative
wire to the 86 terminal proved that the internal switch was working
(audible click).

-- The push button itself tested out OK: with button pushed and 12 v to
the In side, multimeter showed pretty nearly the same voltage Out.

Note to self: remember the Occam's Razor principle.

Phil
s/v Cynosure
La Paz BCS, soon to head northward back to San Carlos