giving some advice to do with servers

[Nathan Smith]

its me, nate again.
I'm running  "1.8.2g4r1" of the gamma moo server, which is seriously artifact like.
I'd really like to update, like really really but when I try, it errors at me because it doesnt like the fact I've used code like this:
if(something.something>1)
++n;
endif

I'd like to know if there is a more modern version of gamma that supports that, than "1.8.2g4r1"
If not, how do I go about, or is it even possible to, upgrade the db so it works nicely for the better servers.
Furthermore, would someone, please, please, please, explain, in simple terms, stunt.
All the big boys seem to be using it, which seems to slap me round the face saying, "use stunt!"
but soething in the back of my mind is saying something about you go to stunt and you can't go back to a different server?
so my questions are about stunt:
1. What's so great about it.
2. Is it stable
3. How hard is it to set up compared to gamma
4. what are its main features?
5. How much leg work would be required to port... technical term... port my db over to the new server
6. What is this once you have stun there is no going back.
7. Am I a moron for not using stunt... you don't have to answer that.

Thanks muchly and sorry for being the worlds biggest newb but... we all have to start somewhere

[Tim van Dijen]

Hi Nate,

Let me see if I can answer your questions:

1. What's so great about it.

Well, it comes with some great features that you would expect from a modern MOO-server, like 'multiple inheritance' (google it if you're not familiar with the term). It also comes with the ability to adjust the MOO programming language the way you like it (Stuff like x++ and --x can be done without even changing the moo-server).
Most of this does add a layer of complexity, but the good thing is that you don't have to use it.. You can just load a stock LambdaCore and work your way like you're use to and you can work your way towards the goodies whenever you feel you need them (by installing packages).

2. Is it stable
Yes, I would consider it very stable. The only downside is that it is unfortunately not being maintained anymore (at least not actively). I know of one minor bug, that hasn't been patched yet after I sent in a pull-request:
https://github.com/toddsundsted/stunt/pull/4/commits/67464e7db07d556a24e2100ab7a4fbaef8855b6d

3. How hard is it to set up compared to gamma

Well, I'm not sure about the GammaMOO database format, but I guess you could try and load your current database and see what happens. Like I said it supports the original LambdaMOO database-format. The i++ stuff you mentioned earlier probably needs to be replaced by i=i+1, but that's something any text-editor can do for you with a search/replace.

4. what are its main features?

Multiple inheritance, builtin web-server, builtin json-parser, verbcode-versioning, and some really useful builtins. It integrates very well with web. Read more on http://stunt.io

5. How much leg work would be required to port... technical term... port my db over to the new server

Like I said it depends on the format of your current database. Another option would be to set up Stunt with an empty database and use something like the Autoport-tool (http://www.lisdude.com/moo/#code) to port your objects to the new database-format. Bottom line;  it's gonna be a bitch, but you'll manage.

6. What is this once you have stun there is no going back.

Well, the introduction of multiple inheritance has changed the way objects are stored in the database. If you want to go back, you will have to do it with the Autoport-tool or something, but the databases are not interchangable between different forks of LambdaMOO.. That's not unusual for Stunt.. I don't think your GammaMOO-database will load on LambdaMOO anymore too.

7. Am I a moron for not using stunt... you don't have to answer that.

You're certainly not.. I do think it's become the de facto standard over the last couple of years, because the other MOO-servers haven't evolved much at all.. You should use whatever you feel comfortable with.. If you don't miss anything in GammaMOO, why migrate?

Tim

Op 15-8-2016 om 03:04 schreef Nathan Smith:

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[Derek Roberts]

Hi,
Also, the order of dumped objects, verbs, tasks etc is different in
Stunt. So even if you didn't have multiple inheritance, other servers
wouldn't be able to read it; they'd expect things in the order they
write them, and will give you very interesting looking errors if you
try loading them.

HTH,
KJ4UFX

On 8/15/16, Tim van Dijen <tvd...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Nate,
>
> Let me see if I can answer your questions:
>

> /1. What's so great about it.
> /Well, it comes with some great features that you would expect from a

> modern MOO-server, like 'multiple inheritance' (google it if you're not
> familiar with the term). It also comes with the ability to adjust the
> MOO programming language the way you like it (Stuff like x++ and --x can
> be done without even changing the moo-server).
> Most of this does add a layer of complexity, but the good thing is that

> you don't *have* to use it.. You can just load a stock LambdaCore and

> work your way like you're use to and you can work your way towards the
> goodies whenever you feel you need them (by installing packages).
>

> /2. Is it stable
> /Yes, I would consider it very stable. The only downside is that it is

> unfortunately not being maintained anymore (at least not actively). I
> know of one minor bug, that hasn't been patched yet after I sent in a
> pull-request:
> https://github.com/toddsundsted/stunt/pull/4/commits/67464e7db07d556a24e2100ab7a4fbaef8855b6d
>

> /3. How hard is it to set up compared to gamma
> /Well, I'm not sure about the GammaMOO database format, but I guess you

> could try and load your current database and see what happens. Like I
> said it supports the original LambdaMOO database-format. The i++ stuff
> you mentioned earlier probably needs to be replaced by i=i+1, but that's
> something any text-editor can do for you with a search/replace.
>

> /4. what are its main features?/

> Multiple inheritance, builtin web-server, builtin json-parser,
> verbcode-versioning, and some really useful builtins. It integrates very
> well with web. Read more on http://stunt.io
>

> /5. How much leg work would be required to port... technical term...
> port my db over to the new server/

> Like I said it depends on the format of your current database. Another
> option would be to set up Stunt with an empty database and use something
> like the Autoport-tool (http://www.lisdude.com/moo/#code) to port your
> objects to the new database-format. Bottom line; it's gonna be a bitch,
> but you'll manage.
>

> /6. What is this once you have stun there is no going back./

> Well, the introduction of multiple inheritance has changed the way
> objects are stored in the database. If you want to go back, you will
> have to do it with the Autoport-tool or something, but the databases are
> not interchangable between different forks of LambdaMOO.. That's not
> unusual for Stunt.. I don't think your GammaMOO-database will load on
> LambdaMOO anymore too.
>

> /7. Am I a moron for not using stunt... you don't have to answer that./

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[The Sky Dancer (KD8TIG)]

I recently tried running stunt with the improvise db, but was unable to
figure out what it expects me to use to connect with other than the word
connect of course.
The instructions said something about the console window containing the
passkey to connect, but my screen reader read nothing that resembled a
passkey. just that I should, for security, turn off the passkey and how to
do so. Do any of you have experience with this that can tell me what I'm
missing? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Kind regards,
Ben

** Programmers don't repeat themselves, they loop! **

[Derek Roberts]

KD8TIG de KJ4UFX
I think this has changed in more recent times than the document you
have. I was confused by this too, as that was the original behavior.
What you need to do, before you start the server, is
export Stunt_Passkey_Wizard="stuff"
Note, in that variable name, the s in stunt, p in passkey, and w in
wizard are capitalized. You can set it to whatever you want, in
quotes. In this case, once you start the server, you want to
>connect stuff
You can also set Stunt_Passkey_Programmer to connect to the programmer
character as well.

HTH and 73