Gmail and SORBS
shreek
My question is: Has anyone had any problems with sending gmails to
addresses using the SORBS service? All my gmails are bouncing back
because the intended recepient's company is using SORBS (and believe it
or not, the recepient uses only one email, the company address). I have
tried to resolve the issue by going to the support page on
www.sorbs.net but so far my problem stands.
I would appreciate any feedback from people who have actually used
SORBS or have had problems and resolution with it. When it talks about
'the host' does it refer to me, my ISP or GMail (Google)?
johan
Yes, I have the same problem. Very annoying and it is slowly forcing me
away from GMail.
According to http://foo-projects.org/node/27 the problem is that GMail
doesnt wanna put their users IP in outgoing mail. Which sounds like a
good thing.
But I still have to mail a lot of people who are using SORBS and I cant
do much about it. Being blocked like this sucks.
/johan
Gerard Seibert
"johan" <johan.o...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Gmail-Users] Re: Gmail and SORBS
Wrote these words of wisdom:
***** REPLY SEPARATOR *****
On 12/19/2005 12:20:46 PM, Gerard Seibert Replied:
Did you actually read the entire article at the URL you posted. They
claim to have discovered 419 I believe SPAMers on GMail.
Google is playing the lone wolf strategy in this scenario. Not a very
wise idea since it hurts its subscriber base (Gmail) in this case. If
Microsoft were to try and pull a stunt like this, the Microsoft pundits
would be having a field day.
I fail to see why Google is refusing to use the users IP though. The IP
will only resolve back to the users ISP anyway. I know that a user could
set up their own name servers and get their ISP to lease two dedicated
IPs to them, but most users do not go that route, especially Microsoft
users. Dedicated IPs usually fall into the realm of businesses, etc. In
any case, if they are running their own name server - BIND, and mail
server, their IP is going to be broadcast anyway.
--
Gerard Seibert
gerard....@gmail.com
johan
> Did you actually read the entire article at the URL you posted. They
> claim to have discovered 419 I believe SPAMers on GMail.
Yes, you are right. I mis-read the above page a little, probably
because of frustration ;-)
Google should play according to the rules in the mail community, no
doubt about that. Maybe IP anonymity is impossible nowadays.
Personally I don't care that much. Being blocked is worse, that's for
sure.
/johan
Fanis Hatzidakis
One use case for the ip hidding feature is this: I go to some lengths
on IRC to hide my ip, due to a well established precedent of DoS.
Using Gmail, I can make contact with people without fearing that my IP
will leak out and attract an attack towards my isp.
Naturally, every feature can be used in a bad manner, according to the
user's ethics. Mildly anonymous harrasment comes to mind, for example.
I haven't read any reports on how well or not Google deals with such
cases.
> I know that a user could set up their own name servers and get their ISP to lease two dedicated
> IPs to them, but most users do not go that route, especially Microsoft
> users. Dedicated IPs usually fall into the realm of businesses, etc. In
> any case, if they are running their own name server - BIND, and mail
> server, their IP is going to be broadcast anyway.
>
> --
> Gerard Seibert
Fanis
G.Waleed Kavalec
Google is playing the lone wolf strategy in this scenario. Not a very
wise idea since it hurts its subscriber base (Gmail) in this case. If
Microsoft were to try and pull a stunt like this, the Microsoft pundits
would be having a field day.
IMHO if I had to bet on Google vs SORBS there is really no contest.
SORBS has been sitting on its... laurels... for too long. Gmail is changing the de facto email environment. If some early users manages to spam, deal with it.
If it is an on-going problem, be very public.
shreek
insight into the whole issue between SORBS and Gmail.
At the same time I am nowhere near to getting a solution to my problem.
Is there somehow any way to get my Gmail address removed from the SORBS
list or not? As I wrote earlier I have send in a request on SORBS
support page but have not heard from them, either accepting or
declining my request. So that ticket is still open.
The alternative solution is simple - use yahoo or hotmail or any of the
hundreds of free email services and get done with it, which I have
already done. But at the same time I would like to see some resolution
to this problem.
I believe in the power of the collective intellect and I hope this
group will somehow come up with a solution.
G.Waleed Kavalec
Have you talked to the person responsible for deciding to use SORBS?
Sometimes we have to advise a Vaudeville solution...
Man says "Doc, It hurts when I do this" (Moves arm)
Doctor says…"Don't do that"
G. Waleed Kavalec
-------------------------
Why are we all in this handbasket
and where is it going so fast?
http://www.kavalec.com/thisisislam.swf
shreek
whose company uses SORBS. This particular individual talked with their
IT department but apparently this is an isolated incident so nothing is
going to be done as far as the issue of the company using SORBS is
concerned.
Gerard Seibert
"shreek" <shrid...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Gmail-Users] Re: Gmail and SORBS
Wrote these words of wisdom:
>
***** REPLY SEPARATOR *****
On 12/20/2005 7:27:56 PM, Gerard Seibert Replied:
I seriously doubt that you can get an individual email address unlisted.
Any email address can be faked. I could use your GMail address right now
if I wanted to. Of course, since my ISP uses normal email protocol, the
fact that the address was spoofed would be readily apparent. Google, by
hiding the users IP, which in the case of a dial up service is totally
useless anyway, makes it far more difficult to trace. Actually, SPAMers
would really like Google's procedure. It makes tracking them down much
harder. That is precisely why they are getting blacklisted. SORBS, and I
believe SpamCop are now blocking them. More services will no doubt
follow.
--
Gerard Seibert
gerard....@gmail.com
Fanis Hatzidakis
Gmail only hides your ip if you're using the webmail interface. I
don't know how spammers operate, but I'd expect them to be using
automated scripts or custom programs that require an SMTP server
(preferably one without authentication). I'm sure there could be a way
to fake a human webmail user with some well placed curl calls, for
instance, but it doesn't sound worth it for a spammer to bother.
> That is precisely why they are getting blacklisted. SORBS, and I
> believe SpamCop are now blocking them. More services will no doubt
> follow.
I just fail to see how much spam could originate from the Gmail servers.
>
>
> --
> Gerard Seibert
Fanis
G.Waleed Kavalec
Talk to them again. Once someone high enough up the chain of command comes to understanding that their company is losing "ALL MAIL FROM GOOGLE EMAIL USERS" they'll be sore at SORBS.
Gerard Seibert
"G.Waleed Kavalec" <kav...@gmail.com>
Subject: [Gmail-Users] Re: Gmail and SORBS
Wrote these words of wisdom:
> Salaam
>
> Talk to them again. Once someone high enough up the chain of command comes
> to understanding that their company is losing "ALL MAIL FROM GOOGLE EMAIL
> USERS" they'll be sore at SORBS.
***** REPLY SEPARATOR *****
On 12/22/2005 4:28:06 AM, Gerard Seibert Replied:
Whether or not Google approves of SORBS, and to a lesser extent SpamCop's
actions is irrelevant. Blacklisting organizations were started with the
specific intend of stopping the spread of SPAM. There are a set of
commonly used directives in place, some of which are called RFC's, that
deal with the transmission of email. If Google wants to try and do it
outside the what is normally considered the correct way then they (you)
will suffer the consequences.
Google is bring this entire problem upon themselves, and placing the
burden on their customers. Not a very friendly concept.
--
Gerard Seibert
gerard....@gmail.com
Fuzzy Logic
Methods like SORBS or SpamCop are mostly enforcing their own thinking
on anti-spam, having nothing to do with RFCs.
Fuzzy
G.Waleed Kavalec
Which RFC requires the originating IP address in SMTP headers?
To the best of my knowledge this has been a non-RFC and strictly voluntary practice of some online email and egroup services. Yahoo and Hotmail, for example, use X-ORIGINATING-IP
If google/gmail were deliberately harboring spammers I would understand your objections; to the best of my knowledge they aren't doing that. So, as I said, it comes down to SORBS and Spamcob vs the most popular websearch (+) company on the planet.
My bet stays on Google.