Bicyling Civility Build

[Pavan Mani]

Hi bicycling commuting community,

I am looking to install "etiquette building" boards or sign plaques for the bicycling community in the city at random locations permissible.

The boards will typically be distinguishable by a bicylist in form and shape and will be approximately sized a square not more than 1'6" to 2' (WxH). Locations most noticeable will be street lamps or electric poles (or structures on the footpath/median) but can also be installed on office buildings (facade close to the road) or residences at an optimum height.

The board will look to be most durable with metal sheets and hinged or clamped upon a wall or a pole. I am looking for people who can permit me to install these boards onto building or structures which they own so that we don't need to worry about it being brought down.

The aim of this exercise is to build awareness to cyclists about building the right attitude and respect towards fellow-pedestrians and motorists. I have seen that as there is a sharp rise in the cycling culture in Bangalore, people are using (misusing) the freedom of not being regularized or cautioned as a bicyclist. People are taking things for granted and overriding the rules (e.g., riding onto incoming traffic, skipping signals, riding on footpaths, etc.) and this in turn is creating some sort of bad publicity towards cyclists and bringing the overall community a bad name (I have sensed this personally and I believe it will grow).

The slogans I bring about will look to educate about the right attitude and respect as a cyclist. Some messages I will look to address are:

1. Determine to never pedal on pedestrian walkways
2. Get down from the cycle and push on the footpath if it does not hinder pedestrian movement
3. Determine to never cycle through a red signal. Stop just like everyone else.
   
4. Determine to always stick to the left side of the lane at all times
   
5. Avoid overtaking larger vehicles from the right even if you could be faster
   
6. The safest place to park your cycle is on a shopping lane, preferably opposite a shop, not hindering vehicular or pedestrian movement
   
7. Ensure to park the bicycle so that it doesn’t disrupt traffic movement or obstruct footpaths
   
8. Never cross the road with the cycle on a busy road, walk towards the closest junction and then cross-over
   
9. Bring the cycle to a halt and then use the phone
   
10. The optimized way for a quick commute is to pedal on the roads, walk on the footpaths and crossing the signals by foot.
    
11. Determine to not use the bell unnecessarily
    
12. Avoid using earphones both for music as well as chatting on the phone
    
13. Frequently use hand signals to tell motorists what you intend to do
    
14. It is safest to always glance behind before negotiating a turn, either right or left
    
15. Be a pedestrian to safely cross roads or busy intersections
    
16. Never ride too close to a car’s door and observe if there is are occupants in the car looking to open the door on your side
    
17. Pedestrians are more important than bicyclists at all times
    
18. Determine to never ride against traffic; if you have to, get down and walk on the footpath
    
19. Use strong lights or reflectors at night to indicate your presence to speeding motorists

Most of these were thought of in an hour's time and will be further condensed or reconsidered. These messages will appear in three languages: Kannada, Hindi and English

So if there are people willing to offer their wall or know a high authority (who can understand the aspect of this exercise) in politics then it would speeden up the process.

Look forward to all your thoughts.

Pavan Mani

[Pradeep Naidu]

Initially when I read few lines, I was very excited to know the boards will be in favour of cyclists.  I thought the msg ads will be to educate the general public about importance of cycling.  But it's the other way.
I m not sure about this idea.. IMHO..

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[Ashok Kumar S]

Exactly. Boards asking motor traffic to respect traffic rules and not to jump signals etc might be of more relevance considering the sheer number and kind of violations seen. Cyclists are nowhere in the picture and won't be there even in near future, IMHO.

[Anil Kadsur]

pavan,

i would like to ask you these questions?

how long you have been commuting?

how many kms you commute per day?

what is the % age of cyclists compare to other motor vehicles?

who will fund this and what do they get in return?

On Apr 18, 2015 3:06 PM, "Pradeep Naidu" <pradee...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Pavan Mani]

Hi all, good to hear your views. I understand why everyone must be so baffled by an exercise such as this.

Hi Anil, answering your questions, directly. If this provides you an understanding.

I commute to work everyday and have been doing so since 2008. I do about 15 kms a day (up and down). The percentage of cyclists in Bangalore on road compared to motorists must be <2%. This is exactly why we need to address this, now. Directing a small population such as ours (who are nurturing a culture in cycling) right from the start is something essential. We don't need curbs and restrictions imposed on a small community such as ours.

Let us be organized. Let us differ from an already ruthless traffic. Let us set an example.

The boards will also target a like-minded crowd to promote cycling, in a way. May not be immediately, but eventually.

I allocate funds myself for a start once I understand the cost aspect. I have no interests in profiting from this other than seeing the entire community grow positively and more cyclists getting onto the road and incubating into a right attitude and discipline which the community shares together.

[Arvind P]

Hello,

Good initiative Pavan and I totally agree to your points. However I feel targeting the section of population (with constructive ads on how to follow traffic rules etc) who use a bicycle for daily commute can be done easily through facebook posts.

What we lack, is a medium of educating the masses on: 

1. How to respect a cyclist or 

2. Encourage them to use a bicycle for daily commute. 

This segment may not be active on facebook and even if they are active, such ads/campaigns will not reach them, (because their Facebook likes does not include cycling/running etc.)

Primary goal of this initiative should be to promote cycling and stop using gas guzzlers. 

Just my thoughts

-Arvind

[Anil Kadsur]

+1

[Ashok Kumar S]

2%? Every two vehicles out of 100 are cycles in Bangalore roads??? Guess that is a faaar fetched number at least on the routes I ride.

[deepakvrao]

Too many wrong notions in this.

[deepakvrao]

Probably even more than 2%. Just count all the cyclists, not just the ones on 'fancy' bikes.

[Shankar Shastry]

So many things wrong with this approach. As usual, people just want to "spread awareness". Why does the OP have to feel the moral urge to "build etiquette?" You either do something or you don't. There's no need to "spread awareness" and "build etiquette" just because you thought about some 20 commandments. If anything, this makes bicyclists look like snobs and make us an even weaker part of traffic.

I'm pretty sure this thread will turn into a slugfest so I'll just leave it with one statement that this is a very wrong approach and is based on some very wrong assumptions. 

[Pavan Mani]

My appreciations to all those who spoke out their mind. I have taken every bit of all what you've said. I wouldn't fully deny your viewpoints nor favour my arguments (as I believe it is wholly on a theoretical standpoint), but I would still hang around it. We are a small threatened community now but might not remain too small for too long and our actions will be more magnified than ever. We have seen cycles banned in Kolkata for reasons unbelievable to us. We need to build ourselves rather than only catering to health, economical or green concerns. We need to be responsible as a community.

Thanks for all of your time.

[Prashanth Chengi]

Pavan, for bikers, I think we should try to shame the offenders within our own community, instead of treating them at par with the assholes on motorized wheels.   Publicizing flaws in a few of our members would likely have unpleasant side effects and might even lead to things like bans on cyclists in certain places etc.  Let us instead take a pledge that we won't break rules and that we'll try to impress that on as many of our bicycling brethren as we can.

/Prashanth

[deepakvrao]

You know of course that there are no 'rules' for cyclists in India? There are rules only for motorised vehicles, as far as I know.

Personally, I will never stop at a red if can help it. In Indian conditions, it is far safer for me to be ahead of traffic than 'in' the traffic, both from pollution as well as physical safety point of view.

[Prashanth Chengi]

Doc, while there may not be any legislation mandating that bicycles need to follow traffic rules, it's more of an oversight than by design and indeed there'll be chaos if people choose to do what they want rather than follow rules.  World over, there are rules for bicycles, though they are less strongly enforced than they are for other motor vehicles, but I think that's hardly reason to say I don't obey rules because it doesn't suit me.

/Prashanth

[Ashok Kumar S]

Show me the rules, boss. Intuitively what I think to be correct may not be correct as per another person as long as there is no clear law. ;-)

[Prashanth Chengi]

Maybe the British didn't include the rules for bicycles till after 1947, as we would have got them too, like the rest of the laws. Here below though is the rules as they practice today.  If there are too many asshole bikers, maybe there'll be more of a push to impose laws than to expect us to be decent and responsible on our own.

https://www.gov.uk/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82/overview-59-to-71

/Prashanth

[Ashok Kumar S]

You follow the British rules. I follow the Indian rules. ;-)

[Prashanth Chengi]

Regarding rules, we can troll each other all day, but rules of common-sense are what are needed and that common-sense dictates that you follow the rules for the rest of the traffic on roads.  For that reason, I don't think Doc's stance is sound.  At any rate, it gives bikers a bad reputation.  "But there is no law against being an asshole" isn't something nice, whichever way you see it!

/Prashanth

[deepakvrao]

Oh yes, common sense to follow general road rules, but as 90% of the cars/buses/motorcyclists/autos do not do that, I feel safer keeping myself as far from them as possible, which is easiest done by cutting every red and staying ahead of the [other ;-)] assholes.

[Karthick Gururaj]

Prashanth, where there are rules for bicycles, there are also rules "for bicycle" (as against rules "against"). The rules (and other aspects of traffic organization on the road - like bike lanes, safe crossings etc) are designed including the cyclists and pedestrians. For instance, in Netherlands (right hand drive), the cycles occupy the right most lane. If a car (to the left of the cyclist) needs to take a right turn, they MUST ensure there is no cyclist behind them. Cycles have the right of way (in this case). In general, if a cycle is hit by a car - it is almost always seen as the car guys fault (since rules give priority to pedestrians and cyclists in most cases). Every intersection has safe crossing points for cyclists.

Under "Indian" driving conditions, we can not apply the same rules and expect the cyclist to follow them - when the rules are all stacked against cyclist. This seems to me common-sensical..

As the good doc said, "breaking" the red light may help both the cyclist and the motorized traffic (in many situations). A sensible cyclist will "break" rules to his/her and the other vehicles advantage. Let me give an example from my own commute.

Where: https://www.google.co.in/maps/place/13%C2%B004'37.9%22N+77%C2%B035'33.3%22E/@13.077206,77.592584,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en

I come and join the Bellary Road from Judicial Layout underpass. The orange color road you see in the map is Bellary road. It has "service" lanes on both sides - but the service lanes are one-way! It is indicated so in the map as well. Bellary road is barricaded from the service lane (except for few breaks to allow vehicle crossing).

If I need to follow the rules, I need to take a left after the underpass, go ahead, take a U-turn to get to the other side. Adds about km more to my ride, but the bigger issue is that the u-turn is unsafe:

a. Vehicles will be driving down at reasonably high speeds, Bellary road being a highway

b. We need to start from the slowest lane (service lane) and cross over to the slowest lane on the other side

c. The u-turn point doesn't have a red light - we need to cross at our own risk

d. The road curves slightly at the u-turn, affecting visibility to some extent.

What I end up doing is: take a right after the underpass, ride on the rightmost side of the service lane (the slowest lane for the oncoming traffic) - there is a shoulder that I can ride in. Many (motorized) two-wheelers do the same! There is a traffic signal about half km down the road, where I cross over to the other side of the road.

Another example is the traffic signal at Kodigehalli cross. The traffic light is at a T-junction. During peak hours, the light stays red for nearly 150 secs. Once it turns green, vehicles zip ahead. If a cyclist (wanting to go straight at the T) was waiting for the signal on the main road (not on the service lane), he/she will have a tough time once the signal turns green - vehicles on both sides will be zipping straight, and the slower moving cyclist is caught in between. Much safer option (and more convenient to others as well) would be to go over to the extreme left when the signal is red, and move ahead.

I can give many more examples.. but I'll stop here :)

- Karthick

[Prashanth Chengi]

You are right about there being rules to protect bikers in other countries, but it's a two way street (no pun intended :) )
We can't ask for bike lanes and also simultaneously say we won't respect traffic lights. There are exceptions to every rule, but failing to follow the simple rules before incoming the exception rule isn't fair. And that whole argument about others not following rules can only be stated in jest (as indeed the doctor did, I believe) but not taken seriously or literally.

/Prashanth

[deepakvrao]

I didn't say that in jest. When 90% plus of the road users have no clue on road rules, especially who has the right of way in a given situation, if I follow rules, I'll probably be killed.

Example: If I am on the highway, I have right of way over any vehicle crossing the highway. If I follow this rule, like I do when cycling abroad, I wont last two rides.

[Prashanth Chengi]

Doc, it's easy to drop statistics, especially when they don't mean a thing.  90%+ don't have a clue on traffic rules? Is that a fact? Or an exaggeration? How many of those offenders share the exact same views as yours, that others are wrong so it doesn't matter if they commit offenses too, or indeed they are safer when they break rules? We point fingers at cars and cars point fingers at trucks.. everybody has somebody else to blame.  Why bother having rules if people come up with their own escape clauses? I'm fully in agreement that riding in India is far more dangerous and what are considered 'rights' for bikers are completely ignored here, but while you may consider breaking traffic lights safer for you, it definitely is not, for others.  A car, trying to avoid you may hit another totally innocent victim.  You were safe, but you potentially endangered somebody else.  Not fair.

/Prashanth

/Prashanth

[Jayaprakash E]

Can anyone guess how many people in India get their driving license through the proper process? I believe over 95% get their DL either by bribe, influence or through agents. Who created this situation? Obviously RTO officials and their bosses. That is why what Doc says make sense that over 90% motorists do not know the rules and they follow what they believe and traffic signal is respected to avoid paying the fine.

On the topic, it is better to run camps (at cycle day or other events) to educate cyclists about the safety rules rather than writing boards.

[deepakvrao]

I would say it is an under estimate.

How many on this forum alone know the rules of a roundabout? I'm sure pretty low. This discussion came up on FB and I was shocked by the number of educated people who didn't know how to negotiate a roundabout.

Ditto with right of way at junctions etc.

I agree with your saying not fair, but I've had a very very bad crash, with multiple injuries, and a smashed CF bike due to no fault of mine, so I'll now look after myself first.

My wife was in a hit and run with a head injury so again, I say look after yourself first. 

[Opendro]

Just to avoid a misunderstanding, Doc meant, 90% of drivers don't know "right of way", not traffic rules. I think, Doc has been very generous. I would say, 99% of drivers don't know the right of way in India. It just does not exists except in traffic websites.

If you doubt me, just start a poll in this community itself.

[Opendro]

If we are going to put up sign boards for cyclists, we can actually create sign boards for people who commute by donkey too.

As I have mentioned many times earlier, our existence and survival on road is purely on instincts as the system does not support us at the moment. Just tell me - where do we belong? On the pavements, on the marked "cycle lane" in Jayanagar or on the vehicular road?

The best sign board for the safety of cyclists I can think of is : "You don't belong here".

[Opendro]

BTW, here is a nice guide on how to drive in India. It is meant to be for foreigners who want to survive on Indian roads. But it will be equally helpful for Indians who want to drive for the first time:

https://learningindia.in/the-unwritten-rules-of-driving-in-india/

The only useful tip missing in that link is "Drive on whatever is left", i.e. wherever you see an inch of free space.

[Karthick Gururaj]

Hi Prashanth,

On: "we can't ask for bike lanes and also simultaneously say we won't respect traffic lights" -> Bike lanes in BLR are really in realm of hypothetical la-la land. I certainly wish for bike lanes (and pedestrian walkways) - not for myself, but to make things easier for my son. I'm not, however, holding my breath on when it will be a reality :)

We can't trade a hypothetical benefit of tomorrow against today's reality.

And I'm not pointing at others to justify how I ride - my act of riding is not retribution. It merely incorporates how others ride in it :)

Anyway, I don't think arguments and discussions will serve further here. I fully understand where you and the OP are coming from and know that it is the "right" approach. What you are saying is what I'll be asking of my son too - to follow rules. You are the Jedi and I'm Sith :) So, I'm stopping now.

- Karthick

[Gandharv Bakshi]

Hey,

I was looking at whether we have regulations on cycles. I couldn't find any, but I did come across this RTO link on Regulations that mentions rules from the act and then "Caution for Cyclists" - http://rto.kar.nic.in/roadsafetycss.html . I am not contributing to this debate one way or the other ( cause I dont see where it will take us), but merely pointing out that some Govt. authority has cared enough to have caution for cyclists in a public forum. Given my low expectations, I am happy even by this! 

Gandharv

[Pradeep Naidu]

It says caution not the rules for cycling.
But I can never stop on a red light if I have a chance to pass easily without hindering the other motor vehicle . It's just not for us.

Red lights are for motor vehicles

[Prashanth Chengi]

Anyway, this is not quite as India specific as people seem to think it is. Assholes are universal. Here's a Pearls Before Swine comic strip that's about this discussion.  I completely abhor the attitude portrayed by the character in the comic.

http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2013/01/13

/Prashanth

[Chidambaran Subramanian]

I never jump a traffic light unless I can do it as a pedestrian.(walk across) by looking around carefully.

[deepakvrao]

That's a brilliant comic strip. It is a comic you know.

[Arvind P R]

Can someone explain point 5 for me? hahahhahahahahaha

http://rto.kar.nic.in/roadsafetycss.html 

Caution for Cyclists:

1. Wear a cycle helmet and appropriate clothes.
2. Use the cycle lane, where ever provided. Ride on the left of the road, with other traffic.
3. Obey stop signs and traffic lights, like the rest of the traffic.
4. Give signals with one hand while riding. Never ride with just one hand on the handle bar except when giving a signal.
5. Keep both feet on the pedals.
6. Look back over your shoulders and take a right turn comfortably, give way to the traffic coming from behind.
7. Never follow any vehicle closely. Maintain safe distance.
8. Avoid big and busy roads with fast moving traffic.
9. Do not enter a street where you see the "No Entry" sign.
10. Stop before you enter moving traffic from a driveway, a parking lot, a minor road, or from behind a parked car or bus. Go ahead only when the way is clear.
11. If you are passing a stopped car be careful, a door may suddenly open.
12. Never stop your cycle on a pedestrian crossing. Never ride your cycle on a footpath.
13. Never try to overtake- if you must, do it only if the driver of the vehicle in your front has permitted or signaled you to overtake. Never try to overtake a vehicle, which is in the process of taking a turn.
14. Under no circumstances should you ride on the wrong side of the road or cross the road abruptly.
15. Never stop suddenly without showing a signal. Watchfully move towards the left while slowing down, but signal your intentions to the traffic following you.

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[Gandharv Bakshi]

I guess it is something we did as kids. Go on a downhill, and put legs up ! Of course, some kids would put legs up and leave the handlebar also! 

[Opendro]

Arvind, not everyone has mudguards as good as yours ;)

[Sachin]

Here are couple more wrong notions to add to Deepak's highlighted list

Determine to always stick to the left side of the lane at all times

How do I turn right? Do you expect me to flout all traffic norms and take a right turn starting at the leftmost corner of left lane?

Jokes apart, even in countries with a better traffic sense where people stick to their own lanes while driving, often it is better to take the lane i.e. drive in teh middle of a lane, so that a fast driving car (>60km/hr) doesn't try to drive throughthe same lane you are riding on the edge of.

Avoid overtaking larger vehicles from the right even if you could be faster

This is against the traffic laws. Not that anyone pays any heed to traffic laws, but you are supposed to overtake from the right, not left, by law.

On Saturday, April 18, 2015 at 8:41:16 PM UTC+5:30, deepakvrao wrote:

Too many wrong notions in this.

[Sachin]

To add to that, when you spot a fellow cyclist being an ass and flouting traffic laws/putting others in danger, do speak up if you get a chance to talk to them. For example, two beautifully color coordinated weekend warriers in a hurry to set timing records jumped a red light at a large, busy intersection, but I caught up with them much further down. I don't know whether they'll repeat that stupidity, but I'm sure they'll remember having got an earful (in quite, polite tones) from me everytime they think of doing that.

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[Sachin]

+1

On Sunday, April 19, 2015 at 9:19:57 PM UTC+5:30, Prashanth Chengi wrote:

Doc, while there may not be any legislation mandating that bicycles need to follow traffic rules, it's more of an oversight than by design and indeed there'll be chaos if people choose to do what they want rather than follow rules.  World over, there are rules for bicycles, though they are less strongly enforced than they are for other motor vehicles, but I think that's hardly reason to say I don't obey rules because it doesn't suit me.

/Prashanth

On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 5:34 PM, deepakvrao <deepa...@gmail.com> wrote:

You know of course that there are no 'rules' for cyclists in India? There are rules only for motorised vehicles, as far as I know.

Personally, I will never stop at a red if can help it. In Indian conditions, it is far safer for me to be ahead of traffic than 'in' the traffic, both from pollution as well as physical safety point of view.