running rigging

[VanquishCC]

Allmand 31. Can you give me the diamters of your halyards and sheets and possible rough lengths? Mine were too rotten/gone to decifer. Thank you

[Sarah Fox]

On Saturday, June 13, 2015 at 10:01:04 PM UTC-4, VanquishCC wrote:

Allmand 31.  Can you give me the diamters of your halyards and sheets and possible rough lengths? Mine were too rotten/gone to decifer.  Thank you

I tried making a couple of posts by email, but it didn't work.  Hopefully this comes through:

In answer to your question, we're undergoing the same project and also have line diameter questions, particularly with regard to the halyards and reefing line diameters.  Here's an accounting of all the lines on our '31 Allmand, which is rigged for self-sailing and has some block-and-tackle rigging on the main sheets and boom vang.  So our line lengths might not be what yours are.

 

Main halyard: 3/8" x 91'

Lower reefing line: 3/8 x 46'

Upper reefing line: 3/8 x 73'

Jib halyard: 3/8 x 110'

Main sheets: 3/8 x 43' each (ours is likely rigged differently from yours!) Boom vang: 3/8 x 35' (likely rigged differently from yours) Jib roller reefing: 3/8 x 36'

Jib sheets: 5/8 x 30' each

Lazy jacks:  1/4" x roughly 140' (crudely guestimated) Line running from main clew, through boom, to cleat beneath boom (term?): 5/16 x 20'

Line suspending end of boom from mast (term?): 5/16 x 20'

 

These are all my best estimates.  In practice, you would need to buy extra and would probably need to deduct 12' from most of these if your lines don't run to the cockpit.  (These could be very crude estimates for your purposes!)  I don't really know the correct diameters, which is the subject of my post.

Here's what we don't know, though, and perhaps I can be so forward as to tag onto your thread:  According to sailrite the recommended line diameter for the halyards, sheets, and reefing lines for a 31' - 35' boat is 7/16", and I've read a few posts from people with 7/16" halyards.  Was the boat originally designed for 7/16" lines?  Will 7/16" fit the pulleys?

We are also curious as to quality of line.  For instance, New England  3/8" Sta-Set double braid is rated at 4400 lb tensile strength, while this no-name 3/8" line we found at less than half the price on Amazon is rated at 2340 lb tensile: http://www.amazon.com/CWC-347040-Double-Braid-Polyester/dp/B0026KCAP0/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1434401558&sr=1-1&keywords=double+braided+polyester+rope.  Is the quality difference of the name-brand line really that great?  Is it worth the difference in price?

 

What would be a decent 600' spool price for the New England line?  I'm finding 3/8 at $437 and 7/16 at $566 from this outfit:  http://www.ropeinc.com/cat-new-england-performance-yacht.html.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks!

Sarah and Earline (and formerly Earl)

White Wings

[Sarah Fox]

Correction:  The cheap polyester 3/8" double braided rope (29c/ft) is made by CWC -- Continental Western Corporation.  Any good?  The specs are also a bit different, with a tensile rating of 4275 lb, very close to New England's rating.  Tensile for the 7/16" is 5725 lb.  You can find this rope here for $130 and $176 per 600' spool:

http://www.cwestern.com/default.aspx?page=category+search+results&products=products*Rope*Double+Braid*White+Polyester+-+Regular&OrderByColumn=ATTRIBUTEVALUE&AttributeName=Sequence&OrderByDirection=ASC 

Their premium rope is "super low stretch" and is rated 4468 lb and 6030 lb tensile, respectively (slightly higher than New England), selling for $203 and $251 per 600' spool:

http://www.cwestern.com/default.aspx?page=category+search+results&products=products*Rope*Double+Braid*White+Polyester+-+Premium&OrderByColumn=ATTRIBUTEVALUE&AttributeName=Sequence&OrderByDirection=ASC

Any thoughts?

[Sarah Fox]

Hi,

By coincidence, I just asked more or less the same question. (I swear I searched the archive first, but perhaps your email wasn't archived yet.)

I gave the line sizes on our 31' Allmand, but they are not necessarily original to the boat. We'll see what answers come through. But this is what I'm coming up with for our boat, which is rigged for self-sailing with all lines running to the cockpit. Note: lengths are rough estimates:

Main halyard: 3/8" x 91'
Lower reefing line: 3/8 x 46'
Upper reefing line: 3/8 x 73'
Jib halyard: 3/8 x 110'
Main sheets: 3/8 x 43' each (ours is likely rigged differently from yours!)
Boom vang: 3/8 x 35' (likely rigged differently from yours)
Jib roller reefing: 3/8 x 36'
Jib sheets: 5/8 x 30' each
Lazy jacks: 1/4" x roughly 140' (crudely guestimated)
Line running from main clew, through boom, to cleat beneath boom (term?): 5/16 x 20'
Line suspending end of boom from mast (term?): 5/16 x 20'

These are all my best estimates. In practice, you would need to buy extra and would probably need to deduct 12' from most of these if your lines don't run to the cockpit. (These could be very crude estimates for your purposes!) I don't really know the correct diameters, which is the subject of my post. Perhaps some of these lines should be as large as 7/16, particularly the halyards and reefing lines, but I don't know how the boat was originally configured.

Hope that helps!
Sarah

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[d.a.v.e]

I'm in the process of replacing mine as well.  Some of mine are 1/2 & some were 7/16th when I got the boat.  Both fit everywhere.  When I looked it up I think it said the pulleys were sized for 1/2in.  I suspect 3/8ths would be fine?  Lengths for each I'm not really sure about as I'm only doing a few at a time.  I went with 100ft of 7/16ths for the main that runs back to the cockpit but folks have told me I would be fine with 90.  Will tell you when I get it on the boat next week :)

I ordered my stuff here, several folks from my club have used this guy & been very happy:  www.cajunrope.com, I found his prices to be way cheaper then when West had their sale a few weeks back & he will put the hardware on as well.  The guy was really friendly and wants your business.

[Jim Goepel]

Dave,

I've heard mixed reviews online about their lines.  I will be really interested in getting your feedback later this year and next year.

On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:54 PM, d.a.v.e <iamd...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm in the process of replacing mine as well.  Some of mine are 1/2 & some were 7/16th when I got the boat.  Both fit everywhere.  When I looked it up I think it said the pulleys were sized for 1/2in.  I suspect 3/8ths would be fine?  Lengths for each I'm not really sure about as I'm only doing a few at a time.  I went with 100ft of 7/16ths for the main that runs back to the cockpit but folks have told me I would be fine with 90.  Will tell you when I get it on the boat next week :)

I ordered my stuff here, several folks from my club have used this guy & been very happy:  www.cajunrope.com, I found his prices to be way cheaper then when West had their sale a few weeks back & he will put the hardware on as well.  The guy was really friendly and wants your business.

--

[Sarah Fox]

Thanks, Dave!  Your mention of having "looked up" pulley diameters jogged my memory that some of this documentation is online at the allmandsail.com site.  I did find that the boat came rigged with 3/8", low-stretch halyard lines, both for the main and the jib.  From everything, I'm concluding that the halyard can be anything from 3/8 (which works and which was supplied originally) to 1/2 (the max dia that will fit through the pulleys).

The highest tension of any line would probably be the main halyard, so if that's OK with 3/8, I suspect everything would be fine with 3/8.  To our knowledge, Earl never had an issue with the halyard lines and was the original owner of the boat.  We looked through his logs yesterday, and there was no mention of line problems.

Anyway, we're just going to put back what was there -- 3/8, low stretch, premium polyester double braid.

The cajunrope.com resource looks nice for installing thimbles at the ends of the lines and such.  I've never done such a thing myself and have no idea what's involved.  I think I'll be looking into it a bit.

Thanks again!

Sarah and Earline (and the spirit of Earl)

White Wings

[EDDIE...@aol.com]

3/8 is right  Ed  Allmand Joy