Looks like Jeff Lyon is having a sale on frames

[Steve Chan]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30361758@N08/30418638803

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[Adam Paiva]

Any more info? I almost don't want to know, having just bought a basically new used frame, but I do want to know!

[Steve Chan]

   Just passing along what I saw in this thread:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=196819

   Looks like most 650B and $1600 for the f/f powdercoated.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Adam Paiva <adam....@gmail.com> wrote:

Any more info? I almost don't want to know, having just bought a basically new used frame, but I do want to know!

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[Igor Belopolsky]

$1600 for frame,fork and 1 color powder IIRC

[Kieran J]

Seems like he could just post the sizes he has? Maybe there's a strategic method behind that.

You don't come across the telephone-based business model much anymore ...

KJ

[William Lindsay]

It's my impression that Jeff Lyon is uncomfortable with communicating on the internet in the same way a lot of people these days are exceedingly shy on the phone. Jeff is an absolute delight on the phone. He's a throwback in that way. I like him a lot.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[mitch....@gmail.com]

Plus on the phone he can finalize a deal in one call--see what size you need, see if he has it, and get CC payment, all done. Some of us like to juggle multiple email/text communication with waits after each input but that can get hairy with multiple people asking about the same framesets.

--Mitch

[somervillebikes]

My experience with Jeff is that he prefers actual phone conversations to email. When you call him, you'll realize how much more pleasant it is to interact with a nice guy over the phone than over email.

Anton

velolumino.com

[Andrew Squirrel]

I had a fantastic back and forth with him over email.

I was able to send photos and drawings of my ideas and when he messed up on one thing I was able to go back and verify that I wasn't at fault.

He does some really amazing work and is pleasant to deal with over email.

[Justin Hughes]

Point taken, but that is of zero benefit to a customer. I get that he doesn't really like to use email. And, if he has a wait list and all the work he can handle that makes sense; it's his prerogative. But, if you really want to sell a dozen existing frames it would seem that pics and numbers of each, even posted on Flickr would go a long way. I'm not knocking him or his work, just saying he could do a lot to help himself with minimal effort.  

Dealing only verbally can end up poorly (see Andrew's comment below). I recall a poster recently that traveled to Italy and met with a builder and ordered a frame while there. The builder took his measurements and the buyer told him what he was looking for. No drawings were presented or the like. The frame that showed up had a 53cm seat tube (level TT) while all of the other bikes the buyer owns that fit him well have 57cm seat tubes with level TTs. What the hell. . . . 

[Nick Favicchio]

He needs to cut this crap out :). He already sells his frames for cheaper than most builders, now a sale?!

How does Jeff make money? I'd love to know how long a frame and fork takes him soup to nuts.

I hope frame building doesn't become like making wine - no way to make a buck doing it because so many people are doing it close to cost cause they already made their money and just love doing it.

Great for the buyer but... gotta be tough on builders trying to make a living.

[ilter]

Steve Chan shared a paceline forum link above, and someone listed frame sizes there if anyone is curious.

I was hesitant at first but gave Jeff Lyon a call yesterday. Had a relaxed, clear and pleasant conversation.

ilter in chicago

[Jim Bronson]

Those are all pretty middle of the road frame sizes, IMO.  Not of much help if you are in the top 20% or bottom 20% of the population.

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[William Lindsay]

Justin gave the free marketing advice qualifier:  " if you really want to sell a dozen existing frames it would seem that" ....

That's an excellent point.  If Jeff Lyon wanted to sell a dozen frames by December 5th, he would be more likely to achieve that goal with Justin's marketing plan.  I just got off the phone with Jeff, researching if he has a sale frame to fit me.  During our very pleasant conversation, he indicated he hopes to sell one or two frames by December 5th, when the sale prices end.  So, it seems to me that he knows what he's doing.  ;-)

The totally unexpected conversational gold-nugget that Jeff dropped on me was this.  We were talking about BB drop.  His 650b frames have more drop than any I know of (71mm).  Jeff does this on purpose, and he believes that's part of what makes his bikes ride really well.  The gold nugget was:

"Mitch (Pryor) only uses 70mm of drop, so obviously my bikes ride 1mm BETTER"

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Alex Wetmore]

Jeff Lyon likely reads this group, he lurks on a bunch of them.

My favorite 650B bike has 74mm of drop :).  It has an EBB and I thought I'd flip it up if the low BB bothered me, but it's never been a problem.

Jeff makes great bikes, congrats to those who are getting in on the deal.

alex

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 10:49:55 AM
To: 650b
Subject: [650B] Re: Looks like Jeff Lyon is having a sale on frames

 

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[Justin Hughes]

Good to know. I've found that I also like more than less BB drop. And to be clear, I never said Jeff Lyon didn't know what he was doing. Mea culpa if that's how my comment read. 

[Steve Chan]

   I don't think Jeff worries about "moving lots of product", and he seems quite happy with the low profile, word of mouth marketing that he has.

   By the way, one of the bikes that he has ready to go seems to be a rando bike built for switchback hills - it sounds like a great bike for someone.

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[William Lindsay]

What Justin suggested was that Jeff could put out a tiny bit more effort to sell more frames IF he wants to liquidate a dozen frames.  Justin was right to suggest that, in my opinion.  I only pointed out that I learned that Jeff does not want to liquidate a dozen frames.  He just wants to sell a couple, and so his very limited marketing seems just right for what he was trying to accomplish.  

I know Justin was not saying Jeff did not know what he was doing.  Similarly, I know Justin was not saying that custom framebuilders who prefer to talk with customers in person tend to get the frame size wrong.  

I think it's a lot easier to pick up on how likable a person is when you speak in person.  I know a lot of people think I'm a jerk based on what I type.  I know a lot of people rub me the wrong way based on what they type on these boards.  When I read these posts, I try hard to picture people smiling, and I imagine them halfway into their second pint of beer at the pub.  That smooths over a lot, but I'm not always successful with that visualization technique. 

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[William Lindsay]

Alex revealed:  "My favorite 650B bike has 74mm of drop :)."

That is super interesting.  Your bike clearly rides 3mm better than a Lyon!  Haha.  What tires are you running on that bike, currently? 

[Alex Wetmore]

Compass 42-584 (Sorry, I get lost in the naming and don't remember which pass they are named after).  It was built for Hetre tires with fenders or Quasi-Moto tires without.

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com>

Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 12:07:57 PM
To: 650b
Cc: tape...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Looks like Jeff Lyon is having a sale on frames

 

[Mark Bulgier]

Justin Hughes wrote:

> Wouldn't make much sense for a builder to build such a frame without a buyer in mind, would it?

Sure it would, if you were competing for sales with other companies that do.  A lot of people (well actually almost everyone) walk into a bike shop and buy a frame or bike that's already there in the shop – they wouldn't even consider waiting months, only to get a frame that you never got to see ahead of time – "a pig in a poke".

When the shop I worked at was building batches of 50 per frame size in the middle of the range, we'd generally build 10 or so of the outliers.  That batch might last a while before we had to build them again, but we never wanted to let inventory get down to zero, because that meant lost sales.

Not saying that applies to Jeff Lyon's situation, but you did say "a builder". 

Lots of custom builders build some on spec now and then, to keep busy when custom orders slow down, or as a way to train up apprentices without diluting the cachet of the top of the line custom model.  And I've found that sometimes the outlier sizes are the first to sell, because the customer is hard to fit and can't find his/her size in your competitor's inventory.

Mark Bulgier
Seattle

[Scott Calhoun]

I just called Jeff and for the record, he doesn't have any 62cm with a 59ish top tube in the bunch. The largest size he has a 61cm with the 56cm top tube.

All best,

Scott Calhoun

[Joe Bunik]

Are those measurements c-c or c-t?

Don't make me phone Jeff!
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

[rcnute]

Did Jeff say if these were with lightweight tubing like the BQ bike?  (I called yesterday but line was busy!)  If there's a 56 with 9/6/9 standard I'm in!

Ryan

[Steve Chan]

   Look here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2084819&postcount=3

On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Joe Bunik <jbu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are those measurements c-c or c-t?

Don't make me phone Jeff!
=- Joe Bunik
Walnut Creek, CA

On 12/1/16, Scott Calhoun <sc...@zonagardens.com> wrote:
> I just called Jeff and for the record, he doesn't have any 62cm with a
> 59ish top tube in the bunch. The largest size he has a 61cm with the 56cm
> top tube.
>
> All best,
> Scott Calhoun
>
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2016 at 10:14:36 PM UTC-7, Steve Chan wrote:
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/30361758@N08/30418638803
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Sow a thought, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a habit,
>>
>> reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny." - Samuel Smiles
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "650b" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email to 650b+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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[Justin Hughes]

His Flickr posting makes sense now after seeing the ad on page 92 of the winter 2016 issue of BQ. He's introducing a new model, the L'avecaise "to go". Sock sized, lightly filed, fillet brazed frame and fork for 650b wheels starting at $1,700. Nice. 

On Thursday, December 1, 2016 at 8:47:27 PM UTC-5, Steve Chan wrote:

   Look here: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2084819&postcount=3

[ilter]

Funny, I was looking at my old BQ issues to last night and noticed that same ad in a 2014 issue, same price and everything. There is also a L'avecaise review in BQ from 2012 summer, which is a lugged version without fender,rack or lights.

ilter in chicago

[Kieran J]

Yeah, that ad has been running unchanged in BQ for a long time. It has always said "a few 58s and 59s available now".

KJ

[Justin Hughes]

Ha! Never noticed that.