Big fender talk

[Jon Doyle]

I ordered my Switchback Hill tires today; psyched to put them on my Rawland rSogn. The tires are 50-ish mm wide, so my current Velo Orange 650b x 52 mm fenders probably need replacing.

It has been observed that Planet Bike Cascadia 29er plastic fenders will do the job. VO has aluminum 700c x 63 mm and 26 x 60 mm fenders. Honjo does a 650b x 62 mm. There may be other options as well.

What are you using/going to use?

Jon

Watertown, MA

[Ryan Watson]

I'm also looking forward to the Swtichback tires on my rSogn. Currently using Hetres for the road, which is a waste of all that beautiful clearance!

If I wanted to use fenders, I'd go with the 60mm Berthouds. 

Ryan

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[Greg Walton]

It will be interesting to see which fenders work.  Width is one thing, but the added height means the arc/radius of the tire increases quite a bit.  A 60mm Berthoud fender, for example, on a 42mm tire has constant fender line.  By adding 8mm to the overall radius, it will be pinched at the ends.  To increase the radius on a fender, you compress the sides (squeeze them together), but that narrows the fender, so it starts to impinge on the width.

It may be that the VO 700c fenders make for a better application if metal fenders are desired.

Greg

[Paulo Dias]

I can tell you that the Planet bike  26in 60mm fenders work fine. I had them on 50mm 650B tires (veeruber) and they worked just fine, nice fender line. I am also thinking about picking up these tires and going to get some metal fenders because I prefer em to plastic. I am either going for berthoud 60mm or the VO 60mm. Pretty sure either willl work. However the question will be does the rsogn have enough clearance for that....

I have a rawland drakkar which has plenty so hope you do as well.

[Nate P]

I'm very keen to figure out a fendered 650b Switchback Pass situation for the Elephant NFE.

I was considering widening the Zeppelins to accommodate the extra tire width. Any thoughts?

[Jon Doyle]

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 10:42:38 AM UTC-4, Nate P wrote:

I was considering widening the Zeppelins to accommodate the extra tire width. Any thoughts?

I may try spreading a VO 700 x 52 mm Zeppelin; I have one on hand.

I found some tips on how to do this simply:

"+1 on a tennis ball, or hard foam "batting practice" baseball. drill a hole through it and place a long wooden or metal dowel through the hole, rest fender upside down on plywood or other flat clean surface, and starting with the ball on one extreme of the fender and the other side up in the air, roll the ball like a rolling pin through the fender channel. you probably will not need a helper to hold the fender up after one or two goes. for the opposite change, nothing beats a firm squeeze on down the line with the old paws."

(from a VSalon thread: Adjusting Metal Fender Radius) 

[somervillebikes]

Hey Jon,

I never tried the tennis ball method, but it does sound like it could work. I've always used the ol' paws when re-radiusing a fender in either direction. Here are some photos I took for a mini-tutorial: https://www.flickr.com/photos/7516215@N03/albums/72157633821482372

The fenders I used for that exercise were VO 700c zeppelins (52mm), and I was re-radiusing them for 650Bx42 (they're on my Stag now). They ended up gaining about 2mm in width in the process. If going from 700c to 650Bx50, it's going to be tricky. If you try to add more than 2mm width, the radius may become too small.  

Anton

velolumino.com

somervillebikes.wordpress.com

[Brian Rowe]

You are planning to widen a 700C x 52mm Zeppelin fender, to fit the 650B x 48mm Switchback pass? I think it would be difficult to widen the fender enough to provide sufficient clearance. I widened the VO 700C x 45mm hammered fenders to fit a 650B x 38mm tire. Just measured now and the widened fenders measure 47 mm wide. They also sit a bit high over the tire which really helps. Just by pure luck, the radius turned out really well for me. I don't think it would have worked out if I had to widen them any more. In my case, I already had the 700C fenders on hand when I converted to 650B, so there was nothing to lose from trying to make them fit.

 

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 10:42:38 AM UTC-4, Nate P wrote:

[Nate P]

Hoping for updates when folks start mounting. My Switchbacks are in the mail.

[Jon Doyle]

Brian, you're correct, insufficient clearance was the result. Got my tires mounted and spread the 52 mm fender. Holding the fender over the wheel, clearance was ≤ 7 mm. 

I have some PB Cascadia 29er fenders on hand. They'll do.

[Nate P]

Thanks for the update, Jon.

How do we think the VO 26" 60mm fender would fair with this tire? Or would the 700 63mm fair better?

-Nate

[Greg Walton]

Jon, what is the clearance (sans fenders) at the seat stay bridge and the fork on the rSogn?

Thanks,

Greg

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[Chris Cullum]

Judging from John Speare's photo of his NFE with RTPs and 60mm metal fenders it looks like a great combo. His caption says lots of clearance.
https://instagram.com/p/5-ruvPqiNR/

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[Alex Wetmore]

Note that John's bike (the Elephant in that photo) has the Rat Trap Pass tires which are 26".  That gives more vertical clearance over the tires for fenders.  Jon Doyle is using the Switchback Hill (650B ) tires which might depend on wider fenders since there is a little less clearance.

alex

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chris Cullum <cullum...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 3, 2015 10:25 AM
To: Nate P
Cc: 650b
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: Big fender talk

 

[John Speare]

Fyi -- fenders on the Elephant (https://instagram.com/p/5-ruvPqiNR/) are Tanaka 26" x 60 alloy. Best value fenders in my book.

John Speare
Spokane, WA USA
http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/

[Chris Cullum]

Oops, you're right Alex. This is the 650b list, I've been caught up in the RTP talk.

For the record my rSogn would have ample clearance for the wider Switchback Hill tires. With Hetres I have 1 cm spacers under metal fenders with lots of room all around.

[Brian Rowe]

I wish I had been wrong! I don't think I've ever seen the VO Zeppelin fenders in action but they sure do look cool on the website. 

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 10:10:16 AM UTC-4, Jon Doyle wrote:

[Jon Doyle]

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:48:28 PM UTC-4, zybariver wrote:

Jon, what is the clearance (sans fenders) at the seat stay bridge and the fork on the rSogn?

I didn't put the Switchbacks on my rSogn yet…but looking at photos of 51mm Quasi-motos should give you an idea.

[John Selway]

Switchbacks on NFE, clearance looks promising, didn't measure yet. Photos attached

John

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[Mark LaLonde]

Planet Bike has two new 650b fenders coming in November. Both are in the Cascadia ALX (aluminum) fender line. There will be 50mm and 60mm wide versions. Both will be black for the first run with potential to add silver if there's enough interest.

Mark

Planet Bike

[Kevan Rutledge]

That does look promising.  Please post clearance measurements when you get a chance.

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 8:38:09 AM UTC-4, js212 wrote:

Switchbacks on NFE, clearance looks promising, didn't measure yet. Photos attached

John

On Sep 4, 2015, at 10:03 AM, Jon Doyle <jondoyl...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Paulo Dias]

I just got the Switchback hills.

Installed them under the Planet bike 60mm 26in ATB. Looks good to me.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:49:58 PM UTC-4, Jon Doyle wrote:

[js212]

That's good news, I was wishing for black alloy 60mm fenders.

found the product info - http://ecom1.planetbike.com/7054-8.html

would like to get fenders on my NFE sooner than later, getting rainy around here and 26 or 700c will do the trick - but black aluminum 27.5 might just be worth waiting until November for.

[Mark LaLonde]

I just wanted to give you all a heads up that Planet Bike just posted up their new 650b aluminum fenders for purchase. You can check them out here.

[Justin]

Switchback hills fit great with plenty of room on the Rsogn. Using VO aluminum 60mm for 559 here. Curious to know if anyone has tried Berthoud 60mm with their switchback hills yet?

[billiam]

I was thinking of springing for the Honjo Smooth 650B fenders for my rSogn.  With 48mm Switchback Hills, this 62mm fender seems like a perfect fit.  But on the Compass website they state...

Here is a list of Compass tires and recommended fenders:

650B x 38 mm tires: Honjo 650B fluted; Grand Bois 650B hammered.

650B x 42 mm tires: Honjo 650B smooth or fluted; Grand Bois 650B hammered.

<<<< 650B x 48 mm tires: no fenders currently offered by Compass.>>>>

Can anyone explain this to me?  I've been using the 52mm VO Zeppelins on my Kogswell with Hetres for many years with great success. 

Thanks,

billiam in medford, or

[Jan Heine]

The 650B x 60 mm fenders are designed for 42 mm-wide tires, and their radius reflects that.

If you use these fenders with wider tires, you encroach on the clearance between tire and fender. We recommend 20 mm between tire and fender for safety. If you use a tire that is about 8 mm wider, you reduce that to 12 mm. The bike will be rideable, but it's less than optimal. I wouldn't ride a bike like that on gravel.

So even though we'd love to sell you fenders, we don't recommend using the fenders we currently offer. Unfortunately, no other company offers fenders in the right diameter, from what I can tell.

Jan Heine

Compass Bicycles Ltd.

www.compasscycle.com

[Ryan Watson]

The Berthoud 60mm will fit over a 2.0" knobby Quasi Moto. 

48mm slick should be no problem!

Ryan

[Matthew Snyder]

I'm currently running the Switchback Hills on my rSogn with the Berthoud 26" x 60mm stainless fenders.  Clearances are fine and the radius is a near-perfect match for the tires with very minimal reshaping.  The Berthouds don't "wrap" around the tire as much as some other brands, but in practice this doesn't seem to matter -- even in Seattle, where the rain has been unforgiving recently.

Matthew Snyder

Seattle WA

[Greg Walton]

Justin and Matthew, please post pictures of your respective installs!

Greg

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[Fred Blasdel]

On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 7:06 AM, Jan Heine <hei...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Unfortunately, no other company offers fenders in the right diameter, from what I can tell.

Plenty of them are around labeled as 26" or 29" fenders

There's just one model specifically advertised for 48mm 650b tires: http://ecom1.planetbike.com/7054-8.html

[mitch....@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 8:53:09 AM UTC-6, Nate P wrote:

Thanks for the update, Jon.

How do we think the VO 26" 60mm fender would fair with this tire? Or would the 700 63mm fair better?

-Nate

Attached are some photos of the VO smooth 26" 60mm fenders over RTP ELs on a vintage low-trail frame with clearance for 2" tires in front and more generous clearance in the rear. I installed these VO fenders yesterday as I built it up after receiving the RTPs over the weekend. These VO fenders were left over from a previous 650B conversion so this is their second install. No shaping required. 

Vernier caliper measures 16mm clearance between tire centerline and fender in front edge of front fender, more at the rear end of the front fender. 

12mm of clearance between side of tire and side edges of the front fender at minimum. 

The rear fender has a bit more room all around. 

The RTP ELs measure 49mm wide and 49mm tall on 26mm OD rims here. When first mounted they were 47mm by 46mm but overnight at max. psi they grew a couple millimeters. 

The bike still needs bar tape and a few things like the frame pump behind the seat tube and a decaleur.  I use a tall GB28 that has a Compass/Nitto decaleur part mounted so I'll buy the decaleur for the bike once I decide if the stem is long enough and if I like the bike. That would be the first money I spend not this build other than the tires. The VO Passhunter rack included the integrated decaleur but I found that using it results in lots of bag sway and shake. With a stem mounted decaleur it's solid. The VO rack is amazing though. The stainless tubing has tolerated much tweaking and fairly radical bending as I adapted it first to a previous build then leveled it out again for this build. 

--Mitch

[Jim Bronson]

Excuse me please while I wipe the drool from my chin :)

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[Guy Washburn]

Hi Mitch -- Looks great! How long are those chain stays? Thanks! Guy

[mitch....@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 18, 2015 at 5:30:04 AM UTC-7, Guy Washburn wrote:

Hi Mitch -- Looks great! How long are those chain stays? Thanks! Guy

Crazy long at 46cm with wheel all the way back as in the photo. Went for the first ride on RTP ELs today at 25psi on pavement. Very smooth and easy to roll up to speed. 

--Mitch

[Johan Larsson]

What is that frame? Never seen anything like it. I would have guessed it was some kind of 80's MTB frame mostly because of the tire clearances, but the fork/fork angle and the chain stay angle looks road-like.

Johan Larsson,

Sweden

[WMdeR]

It looks like a Peugeot orient express. One of my friends fished one from a dumpster and it became his main/primary machine.

Best,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

[mitch....@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 4:44:26 PM UTC-7, Johan Larsson wrote:

What is that frame? Never seen anything like it. I would have guessed it was some kind of 80's MTB frame mostly because of the tire clearances, but the fork/fork angle and the chain stay angle looks road-like.

Correct on both counts. It's both odd and ordinary at the same time. It was Peugeot's idea of a city bike in 1984, called the Urban Express, and was next to their top line mtb the Canyon Express (not saying much since these were middle-quality bikes). So it has the oversize mtb version of the Tange #2 tube set, and it has a high bottom bracket like an mb. It's built for 26" wheels and came stock with a bull-moose bar. But then it has a 72 or 72.5 degree head angle and 65-67mm of rake whereas the Canyon Express had the slack 68-69 degree head angle most mtbs had in 1984. This Urban express also came stock with 1.5" road tires. So it was a road bike built from an mtb tubeset and build kit. What turns out to be quite unusual though is a low trail bike built for 26" wheels--my measurements make it 38-40mm of trail, 11-12 flop, with RTPs.

I've ridden it the last couple days and it rides like an ordinary low trail road bike with a front load. The RTP ELs are smooth and fast on gravel. 

--Mitch

[mitch....@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 6:27:20 PM UTC-7, WMdeR wrote:

It looks like a Peugeot orient express. One of my friends fished one from a dumpster and it became his main/primary machine.

The Orient Express showed up in 1985 one step down from the Canyon express. The 1985 Urban Express looks pretty different, has different color paint, and they tout how much less expensive it is compared to 1984.  In the 1986 catalogs it's gone but their are lower end "city: bikes. 

--Mitch

[Johan Larsson]

It looks really, really good. If I were to specify a custom frame/geometry for a do-it-all bike, it would be basically identical to that frame. I have previously been a proponent of low bottom brackets (245-270 mm), but after regular biking on rocky trails trying bikes with different bb heights, I now appreciate a higher bb (275-310 mm) on a bike that will sometimes be used on anything other than smooth roads. Seems like the perfect bicycle to me...!

Johan Larsson,

Sweden

[Nate P]

Had to add an after-market PB mudflap extension to achieve proper coverage. Does the trick.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/62958776@N02/23228631494/in/album-72157657426228373/

[Nick Payne]

I use a box cutter and cut my mudflaps from empty dishwashing detergent bottles: http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/images2/cc198-3surly2.jpg

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