WTB Horizon

[Evan Baird]

Just got some new rubbers in the mail.

[Evan Baird]

They calp out at 42mm on my rims, but hopefull they'll plump up a bit.

[Evan Baird]

[William Lindsay]

Come on Evan!  "on my rims".  How about telling us what your rims are?  ;-)

If memory serves, Evan might be running Velocity Atlas.  If that is the case here, Velocity Atlas is a 25.4mm rim.  That makes WTB Horizons pretty darn undersized.  That'll allow them to fit on a lot of Hetre-bikes, and will push a lot of people to Switchback Hills, if they want a real 47mm tire.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Evan Baird]

23mm external, so pretty narrow. I have no idea what model they are, but you can't buy them regardless.

[Evan Baird]

I'll probably try them on my Atlas rims, but I'm still using the Fattys so I may not swap them out for a few days.

[Evan Baird]

I wanted to try out a super overbuilt tire for the sake of comparison before making a judgement about how these ride.

[Steve Palincsar]

According to the tire, this is a 47x650C.  Is that correct?

On 06/06/2016 06:12 PM, Evan Baird wrote:

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[Evan Baird]

According to the tire WTB doesn't know what that letter means.

[Mike Schiller]

the other data point I saw was that they measured 48 mm on an i25 rim set up tubeless.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca.

[Mike Schiller]

or the new Panaracer Gravelking slick and SK  in 48mm wide.  IME the Gravel Kings run oversize set up tubeless.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Mike Schiller]

now available  http://www.wtb.com/products/horizon

~mike

[William Lindsay]

Yes, there used to be a "not currently in stock" message in red on that page.  That message is gone.  Did you order any, Mike?  I tried the old trick to see how many they had in inventory by adding 4567 of them to my cart.  It willingly wanted to charge me $300k for my order, so I emptied my cart.  :-)

Bill

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 12:38:05 PM UTC-7, Mike Schiller wrote:

now available  http://www.wtb.com/products/horizon

~mike

[Mike Schiller]

think I'll wait and get more data points on width and what  the market price ends up at. They may not be as light as the extralight Compass tires but I actually prefer the standard casings for sidewall durability. So these could be just right for my orange Matthews. 

 I'm really waiting for the 700x45 Riddler from WTB

~mike

[Ethan Labowitz]

I don't get it...the cost:weight ratio doesn't compare favorably to any of the Compass offerings as far as I can tell, even the non-extralight versions.

For $10 more per tire, one could buy Babyshoe ELs, which are 30% lighter and apparently the same 42mm width.

Or for $9 less per tire, get some Babyshoe non-ELs, which are still 24% lighter.

Then again Compass is perhaps so boutique that this is aimed at a different market.

Ethan

[Mike Schiller]

I'm pretty sure they will end up wider than Babyshoes, and at e-market prices probably $50-55.  So something in between the Babyshoes ( which measure more like 41 mm) and the Switchback Hills. I'm happy to have more choices in the market.  Having WTB enter this market is a boon for all 650B riders and will bring more rim, tire  and bike choices.

~mike

[Evan Baird]

My guess is they're angling to be the default 650b OEM tire, but I'm glad that they're pushing the retrofit angle too. It only took what like 15 years for the big companies to cotton on to what we were doing?

[William Lindsay]

It will be funny when people start trying to fish for cheap used Horizon tires on this board:  "WTB used WTB tires" or "WTB WTB Horizons"

[Greg Walton]

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:40 PM, William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

It will be funny when people start trying to fish for cheap used Horizon tires on this board:  "WTB used WTB tires" or "WTB WTB Horizons"

Or my reaction when I saw the 47c graphic on the sidewall "WTF, WTB?"

Greg

Seattle

[Jeffrey Kane]

I don't understand the "c" thing. Prancer uses it too on their Pari Moto and Gravel King sizing:

http://www.panaracer.com/gravelking

Speaking of -- I also don't get the overlap between the Gravel King and Pari Moto 27.5 x 1.5's ... unless they're looking to ditch the PM's. That 27.5 x 1.75 looks mighty tasty though 'cause I'm running a GB crown and probably can't fit the Switchback Hill (anyone with a mounted set in NYC or Bklyn I can ride over to and try a quick wheel swap fit?). 

Anyway, the 1.75 might be kinda better than the WTB offering at less portly weight and likely similar price (I'm still running tubes). Too bad about the SK's not coming in 27.5 ... yet (?). Still, choice is cool, isn't it.

[Jan Heine]

I think that is just a typo on the web site. Note that the 27.5" tires also are listed as 622, rather than 584, in the ETRTO sizes.

Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

www.bikequarterly.com

[Steve Palincsar]

Either that, or they haven't a clue what "C" means and think it is some kind of one-letter shorthand for "mm"...

[Ray Varella]

It's not just a typo on the website. 

The 47c is on the sidewall of the Horizon tire pictured. 

Clearly, someone at WTB is unfamiliar with their ABCs

Ray

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Ray Varella

IAABC Parrot Division

Supporting Member

[Evan Baird]

It supposed to be 47cc

[Steve Palincsar]

Oh, a pretty small engine, then.

On 06/07/2016 11:58 PM, Evan Baird wrote:
> It supposed to be 47cc
>

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/07/2016 11:25 PM, Ray Varella wrote:

It's not just a typo on the website. 

The 47c is on the sidewall of the Horizon tire pictured. 

Clearly, someone at WTB is unfamiliar with their ABCs

These days, the entire industry along with its publicists and forum-based claque are equally ignorant.   The use of "c" after width has become universal.

[Steven Frederick]

Yeah, I'm waiting for the "mis-labled C clearance" price on this first branch.

[cyclotourist]

At least c is a universal constant.

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Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

[William Lindsay]

"Do you want to ride at 47 times the speed of light? Then these 47c tires are for you!"

[Harold Bielstein]

WARP 47 - whoo hoo!

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 8:16 AM, William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Do you want to ride at 47 times the speed of light? Then these 47c tires are for you!"
>

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Hal Bielstein
hkbie...@gmail.com

[Evan Baird]

More like warp 44, but I'm already impressed with the ride quality. Although after coming off the Force-fields anything would feel fast I guess.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskBjXEbs

[Chris Cullum]

On Jun 10, 2016 09:34, "Evan Baird" <vanst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> More like warp 44, but I'm already impressed with the ride quality. Although after coming off the Force-fields anything would feel fast I guess.
>
> https://flic.kr/s/aHskBjXEbs
>
>

Whoa, those Cafam 2 brakes are a pretty brazen rip off of Pauls!

[Evan Baird]

Brush up on your history noob ;-)

[Chris Cullum]

On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 10:29 AM, Evan Baird <vanst...@gmail.com> wrote:

Brush up on your history noob ;-)

None of those look almost exactly like Pauls as the Cafam 2 does...

--

Chris Cullum
Vancouver, BC

[Evan Baird]

So don't buy them. Jesus Christ

[Chris Cullum]

Sorry to touch a nerve. It was just and observation...

[Evan Baird]

Queue up the list of companies that invented 650b tires.

[Evan Baird]

JK, everybody knows it was Santa Cruz.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/10/2016 01:55 PM, Evan Baird wrote:
> Queue up the list of companies that invented 650b tires.
>

I presume you mean back at the Dawn of Time about 100 years ago?

[Evan Baird]

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 06/10/2016 03:15 PM, Evan Baird wrote:

People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a nonlinear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

Only for The Doctor and his Companion(s).  For you, no.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aksxZTPx7PU

[Andrew]

nope, definitely warp47

Brand new, on WTB KOM i23 rims. (not my image)

http://i.imgur.com/zpyZbxs.jpg

[Evan Baird]

Interesting. I wonder if I got pre productions.

[Evan Baird]

Regardless of the sizing I'm super pleased with the ride quality. They're way more compliant than the Thick Slicks and the rolling resistance feels about on par with the Grandos.

[Evan Baird]

https://vine.co/v/eOjjE6lpBjg/embed

[Mike Schiller]

not mine, but the numbers looks good  https://www.instagram.com/p/BGakm9aMOpV/?tagged=gravelbike

~mike

[Evan Baird]

I guess the internal width of my Atlas is quite a bit narrower than I realized. I guess I'm going to have to pester sombody at Velocity for some Cliffhangers to mount up.

[Philip Kim]

Anyone have sizing on these on Velocity A23's? They are about 1-2mm narrower than Atlas, so guess these to be more like 43mm (based off Evan's Atlas sizing)?

[Mike Schiller]

according to Guitar Fred they measure 46.3 mm on Velocity Ailerons which are 20 mm internal.  So I would guess closer to 45 mm on A23's

~mike

[Evan Baird]

I'm going to go ride railroad grade today. Maybe I'll stop by the office and say hi. So far I'm still loving them. Now if I can just talk them into making these with the riddler tread I think I can die happy.

[Justin Hughes]

For posterity I'll report that they measure 47.9mm on Blunt SS rims (26.3 internal) with tubes. 

[Evan Baird]

I did in fact make it over there yesterday, and they were very nice and listened to me say my piece about the 650b Riddlers and even let me whinge about the 47c labels. Very cool folks. I think we can expect more fun stuff in the future.

On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 3:07:54 PM UTC-7, Evan Baird wrote:

Just got some new rubbers in the mail.

[Evan Baird]

Oh right 

[Mike Schiller]

I'm all for these in the Riddler tread. Really looking forward to the 700x45's for my monstercross bike.

A few of us have been talking to Panaracer about that Gravelking SK in a 650B x 48 as well.

~mike

[Evan Baird]

I hear that's also a thing. Everything's coming up Milhouse.

[Jeffrey Kane]

Any thoughts on the WTB/exposure tread? I'd like to see that in 650b starting at 42 with a fatter option as well ....

[Evan Baird]

I havent ridden that tire, so I'm just speculating, but in my experience that kind of tread pattern doesnt offer much in the way of cornering grip than the Horizon does. You really need the knobs to dig into the dirt when you lean into a turn.

[Jeffrey Kane]

Gotcha, I was thinking about the exposure tread with the knobs -- like the one on the right in this pic:

[Evan Baird]

I expect that would ride a lot like the Vittoria XN, which was not very confidence inapiring during the 2 months I was riding it. Maybe a wider version would be more effective?

[Ben Lilburne]

The "C" after the width denotes that it is a clincher tyre for [c]rochet type rims (hooked rim)

It is correct to say 650b (wheel size) x 57c (width and type). It makes it clear that it's a clincher, not a tubular, and you should use it on a hooked rim.

A lot of tyres will also have printed "For hook type rims only", especially for high pressure road tyres. But they don't differentiate between old style unhooked rims and modern tubeless type hookless rims.

On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 at 11:03:06 AM UTC+10, Jeffrey Kane wrote:

I don't understand the "c" thing. Prancer uses it too on their Pari Moto and Gravel King sizing:

http://www.panaracer.com/gravelking

Speaking of -- I also don't get the overlap between the Gravel King and Pari Moto 27.5 x 1.5's ... unless they're looking to ditch the PM's. That 27.5 x 1.75 looks mighty tasty though 'cause I'm running a GB crown and probably can't fit the Switchback Hill (anyone with a mounted set in NYC or Bklyn I can ride over to and try a quick wheel swap fit?). 

Anyway, the 1.75 might be kinda better than the WTB offering at less portly weight and likely similar price (I'm still running tubes). Too bad about the SK's not coming in 27.5 ... yet (?). Still, choice is cool, isn't it.

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 6:55:43 PM UTC-4, zybariver wrote:

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:40 PM, William Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

It will be funny when people start trying to fish for cheap used Horizon tires on this board:  "WTB used WTB tires" or "WTB WTB Horizons"

Or my reaction when I saw the 47c graphic on the sidewall "WTF, WTB?"

Greg

Seattle

[Jeff Bertolet]

So what do you make of the Sim Works tires that are labeled 650x42B?

I think it is just an antiquated naming system(700D, 650A, etc) which is being translated from English to Japanese/Cantonese and back to English.

[Justin Hughes]

Huh? Says who? 

[Alex Wetmore]

No, the C comes from the old French tire size where the number was the diameter and the letter was the volume of the tire.  The rim size was not a part of the tire size.

There were 700 A, B, C, and D and 650 A, B, C and D

http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html#french

An interesting useless fact is that 700C was a high volume tire (it would have been around 40mm), 700A would have been the narrowest size and used larger rims.  Obviously things didn't stay this way since the most common size of a 700C tire is 23mm.  The same weirdness happened in 650, where 650C is now a low volume size and 650B is a high volume size, backwards from what was intended by this system.

alex

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From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ben Lilburne <bne...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:32:55 PM
To: 650b
Cc: tape...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [650B] Re: WTB Horizon

 

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[satanas]

^ Agreed. It seems many people, manufacturers included, refer to widths as "23c", "25c", etc, which is incorrect. The letter code has nothing whatsoever to do with tyre width, only rim diameter.

Things would be much clearer if people would use only the ETRTO designation as this is not ambiguous, i.e., 42-584, 28-622, etc. (And no, not like: "7 of 9, Tertiary Adjunct of Unimatrix Zero One"; Borg and ETRTO designations are not interchangeable.)

Later,
Stephen

[Edd Bread]

Sorry to rehash an old post but has anyone had experiences with the Horizons? I've been riding them for a couple of weeks now and so far they're pretty good. I haven't tired Compass so I really don't have anything to compare them to. However I will say that riding through rain, these tires are very slippery on turns and corners. 90% of my riding is commuting.