this looks interesting

[Ken Mattina]

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/04/20/wtb-takes-byway-new-dirt-ready-47mm-road-plus-tire/

--

Where did the spring go?
Where did my hormones go?
Where did my energy go?
Where did my go go?
Where did the pleasure go?
Where did my hair go?

-- Ray Davies

[Steve Chan]

   It seems possible to make a "toothy" tire tread that performs reasonably well on road and looser stuff (I'm thinking of tires like the Compass Steilacoom, Bruce Gordon's RnR and Soma Cazadero). It would be nice to get a tire like that, but have it be about 50mm in diameter - does anyone make a tire like this?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "650b" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 650b+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 65...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/650b.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

"Sow a thought, reap an action. Sow an action, reap a habit. Sow a habit, reap a character. Sow a character, reap a destiny." - Samuel Smiles

[satanas]

Schwalbe's nominally 54mm Thunder Burt measured 50-51mm on Giant's 26mm external rims, both in max width and height above the rim edge for me, so yes there is something, and has been for a while now.

If that's not big enough there are also nominally 57mm TBs, 60mm and 70mm G-Ones, etc, and that's just from Schwalbe. Vee's small block tyres (V8, V12, etc) roll pretty well too, and I'm sure there are others, though not with the Road+ label.

Later,
Stephen

[Steve Chan]

Hi Stephen,

   Thanks for replying - if 54mm Thunder Burts are an actual 50-51mm on wide-ish then they would be ideal, thanks!

   I can never be sure with Schwalbe, I used to think of their tires as consistently under the rated size, but some of their newer tires sound like they are closer to spec.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "650b" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 650b+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to 65...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/650b.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Stephen Poole]

Yeah, it seems to vary but most run a bit small. I measured the TBs soon after they came out on new Giants a couple of years back, with plastic calipers so let's say +/- a fraction of a millimetre.

The 57mm Nobby Nics were 55mm according to bicyclerollingresistance.com IIRC, so pretty close, and someone here posted that the 70mm G-One was ~74mm; another poster said 60mm G-Ones were ~56mm. Mostly Schwalbe run a bit narrow, i.e., my 28mm road tyres are about 26mm on i15 rims, 50mm Marathons are often closer to 45mm (sometimes 43mm), etc. It also depends on whether you measure across the casing or knobs (if there are any), etc.

Later,
Stephen

[Evan Baird]

Do one or more of y'all want to take over updating 650b.org? I started it as an archive of all the tires I was aware of but I don't have the time or energy to maintain it. Anyway, it's on tumblr if you're interested. Cool tires. I had no idea they were making these. Such a nice surprise!

[Mike Schiller]

I have Thunder Burt 2.1's mounted tubeless on Velocity A23's.. they measure out at 52.5mm.  They were 51 with tubes. 

Saw the Bypass tires yesterday at Sea Otter.  Think I'll stick with my Thunder Burts or the new 48mm Panaracer Gravelking SK.

Those 70 mm G-ones look awesome in person. They had a set at the Schwalbe booth.   

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Scott B]

I have a set of the 70mm G-one all-rounds on velocity duallys they are a blast the front is pretty picky about pressures on pavement or you get some self steer.

[Adrian Alday]

50mm cazaderos are coming!

On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 9:30:24 PM UTC-4, Steve Chan wrote:

   It seems possible to make a "toothy" tire tread that performs reasonably well on road and looser stuff (I'm thinking of tires like the Compass Steilacoom, Bruce Gordon's RnR and Soma Cazadero). It would be nice to get a tire like that, but have it be about 50mm in diameter - does anyone make a tire like this?

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Ken Mattina <ken.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/04/20/wtb-takes-byway-new-dirt-ready-47mm-road-plus-tire/

--

Where did the spring go?
Where did my hormones go?
Where did my energy go?
Where did my go go?
Where did the pleasure go?
Where did my hair go?

-- Ray Davies

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "650b" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 650b+uns...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to 65...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/650b.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Fred Blasdel]

On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 6:29 PM, Steve Chan <sych...@gmail.com> wrote:

   It seems possible to make a "toothy" tire tread that performs reasonably well on road and looser stuff (I'm thinking of tires like the Compass Steilacoom, Bruce Gordon's RnR and Soma Cazadero). It would be nice to get a tire like that, but have it be about 50mm in diameter - does anyone make a tire like this?

Every competitive tire company makes a whole lineup of those!

Any modern XC Racing tire has about 25 years in additional product development over those boutique panaracer options, and will handily beat them on the road too.

[Steve Chan]

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 9:30 PM, Fred Blasdel <blas...@gmail.com> wrote:

Every competitive tire company makes a whole lineup of those!

Any modern XC Racing tire has about 25 years in additional product development over those boutique panaracer options, and will handily beat them on the road too.

  Its true that the mainstream manufacturers have these kinds of tires, the question was whether they are too wide. But it looks like these tires often come in under the stated size. Maybe the tires that are nominally 54mm will often have an actual around 50mm?

[Stephen Poole]

This is going to be messy, as actual width seems to vary slightly with rim width (someone said +2mm rim => +1mm tire), with tubes (narrower) or tubeless (+ about 3mm, give or take), casing (i.e., Compass EL = more stretch), and how on earth the manufacturer arrived at the nominal width; some tires (and companies) have been more consistently undersize than others in the past.

Then there's casing width versus maximum knob width, and at what radii/diameters these occur, which can vary quite a bit. Surly have a helpful chart of this stuff for their tires but appear to be the only ones who do; they also list OD, which doesn't vary with different rim widths.

If one is trying to ascertain whether a tire will fit a given frame or fork, then all the dimensions will be useful: outside radius/diameter, maximum casing width and knob shoulder widths (and radii for these) on various rims, height of the tire above the rim edge, etc.

Otherwise we're back to trial and error, test fitting, etc.

By the way, what minimum lateral clearance do people here is acceptable between the tire edge and inside of the fork blade, assuming no mud?

Later,
Stephen

[Kevan Rutledge]

Mike-

Are the 48mm Gravelking's available now? If not, have you heard when? Seems like Panaracer announced these a year ago, but I haven't seen anything yet.

Thanks!

[Mike Schiller]

the reps said they would be out for retail in July of this year.  Both smooth surface and small knob....  they had them at Sea Otter last weekend on display.  

~mike

[Evan Baird]

So does this pretty much mean that 650b drop bar bikes are mainstream now? Is this peak #650b? Should we close shop like 63xc?

http://theradavist.com/2017/05/giving-my-firefly-a-dose-of-road-plus-with-wtbs-byway-650b-x-47mm-tires/

[Stephen Poole]

Not quite yet. I'm not sure I'll ever get another 700c bike though. There are a lot of 50-ish mm mixed terrain tyres out or on the way at the moment, what with WTB, Soma, Clement, Schwalbe, etc.

I think we can expect to see more bikes and tyres - and hopefully some wider forks - later in the year. B+ and drops oughta be the "next big thing."

Later,
Stephen

[Jambi Ganbar]

When you say B+ and drops, are you talking about 650B that are even wider than the 48mm Compass and WTB has, with drop bars?

I'm very curious about the "next big thing" in cycling.  So far it's been "All-road" which meant wider tires and disks.  We have a minor inflection point now around hub width but that's not a "new" bike category...

Ideas are welcomed.

J  

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "650b" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to 650b+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

[Stephen Poole]

Sorry, I was making a bit of a pun with the "next big thing" comment...

A few people, like Mike Schiller here, have been experimenting with 70+ mm tyres and drop bars. With an IGH or 1x drivetrain this is easy enough to do, and with tyres like Schwalbe's G-One shouldn't be slow on the road either.

With 2x it's likely a rather wide crankset might be required, not so great from my point of view; if one sticks with ~50mm tyres the wheels don't really need to get wide or heavy, and a normal road drivetrain should clear okay. There are some reasonably light rims out there compatible with up to 2.6-3.0" tyres, so things still don't need to be super heavy.

Of course, something similar could be done with 29+ but then everything gets heavier, fit for smaller riders is more difficult, and there are fewer tyres and rims. Getting low enough gears also gets harder.

I have a frame which will accept 2.8"/70mm tyres and ~150mm Q Ritchey cranks. This has a Rohloff drivetrain and there's a drop bar shifter to suit, so that combination will likely be tried later in the year.

Later,
Stephen

[Mike Schiller]

kinda like this... with 75mm tires and a 36-22 double.  

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTnK3NmgqXB/?taken-by=bigschill56

funnest bike I own but it is a little slow on pave'. Next step is a lower trail fork.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[mitch....@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 1:13:31 AM UTC-6, Evan Baird wrote:

So does this pretty much mean that 650b drop bar bikes are mainstream now?...

Seems like the case to me but yesterday I dropped into a big Trek and Specialized shop and they had no idea. Weird because their showroom floor had multiple drop bar bikes with ~40mm tires. I asked the shop guys who seemed knowledgeable but not roadie/velominati: "looks like you're selling a lot of the wider tire road bikes, allroad bikes or road plus?"  They said "yeah they've really gotten wide, 25 is standard now, even 28s on some bikes."  I said "no I mean these bikes (pointing) with wide tires." They: "oh right, commuter bikes. Yeah we sell commuter bikes."

But bike shop sales floor is not necessarily a good measure of the mainstream.

--Mitch

[Stephen Poole]

All this shows is that salespersons are clueless - some things never change! And things are often similar if you ask roadies about MTBs, or either about BMX, or anything else outside their area of interest. My experience has been that most salesmen (and I say "men" here deliberately) will bluff and make stuff up rather than admit they know zip. I'm always more impressed if they admit they don't know something and offer to investigate, but maybe I'm weird...

On 15 May 2017 3:07 am, <mitch....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 5, 2017 at 1:13:31 AM UTC-6, Evan Baird wrote:
>>
>> So does this pretty much mean that 650b drop bar bikes are mainstream now?...
>

>{snip}  They said "yeah they've really gotten wide, 25 is standard now, even 28s on some bikes."  I said "no I mean these bikes (pointing) with wide tires." They: "oh right, commuter bikes. Yeah we sell commuter bikes."

[Cary Weitzman]

Stephen Poole wrote:
> My experience has been that most salesmen (and I say "men" here
> deliberately) will bluff and make stuff up rather than admit they know
> zip. I'm always more impressed if they admit they don't know something
> and offer to investigate, but maybe I'm weird...

Nope not weird. I take it as the sign of a really good shop, and I was
delighted to, at one point in my life, work at a shop where employees
were encouraged to say this.

As far back as the early 90's when I started reading rec.bicycles.tech,
Jobst Brandt was calling this "Male Answer Syndrome".

Cary
PTBO.ON.CA

[Stephen Poole]

I hadn't heard the term Male Answer Syndrome before, but have definitely been on the receiving end of it.

I think it can be both interesting and useful to ask people about stuff, and then to ask if they have personal experience of whatever it is. The best responses are to admit up front if they have used it or not, next best is to admit they're going on hearsay, least helpful is to carry on making up BS. In my experience it is useful to calibrate shop staff (and music/film/book reviewers), and can save time later on.

If they're embarassed when they catch themselves out there's hope.  :-)

[Steve Palincsar]

All right, I'll bite: what is a good measure of the mainstream?

[mitch....@gmail.com]

On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 2:31:38 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:

All right, I'll bite: what is a good measure of the mainstream?

 Probably what Evan meant by it was something like Radavist mainstream. 

--Mitch 

[Justin Hughes]

I'm impressed your Thunder Burt's measured 52.5mm on i18 rims tubeless. I mounted one on my i23 rims to get a measurement and it came out to only 51mm. 

I also installed a WTB Byway on the same i23 rim (Crest Mk3) and it measured 46.75mm, a full 3mm narrower than SBH, which measures 49.75mm on the same rim. All sans tubes. 

Justin

[Stephen Poole]

Nustin, thanks very much for the measurements; I expect to end up with the same rims so this is very helpful indeed. Might it be possible for you to post the diameter or radius for at least one of these tyres too?

Assuming the difference in radius is similar to the difference in width then they should all fit the forks I'm considering, and BB height will vary less than I'd expected across the three (~4mm), the latter having both good and bad points.

If anyone has measurements for the 57-584 Thunder Burts that would also be appreciated.

Later,
Stephen

[Justin Hughes]

Right now the SBH are mounted and have Orange Seal inside so I don't plan to change that. A more accurate measurement for me to take might be the diameter so I'll try and remember to do that tonight. 

FWIW, when changing tubeless tires that have sealant inside I had good luck using a plastic syringe to remove it from the tire once one of the beads are separated from the rim and then put the sealant back into the new tire via the valve with core removed from the syringe. 

Justin

[satanas]

Thanks Justin. (Apologies for the mis-spelling, sadly easy to do on a phone,)

[Justin Hughes]

I'm called much worse e'ryday. Thought of your handle when I saw this IG post recently. 

[Mike Schiller]

mine are about a year old, and an OEM model that Bike24 had in stock.  They were about 50 mm with tubes when they were originally installed.

~mike

[Stephen Poole]

Nice T shirt! I'm not sure I've ever heard Ryan Adams but might check him out. Looks like he has a sense of humour...  :-).

[Mike Schiller]

just checked the Horizon's now installed on the same A23 rims. About 2 weeks on the bike and measure 46.1 mm wide

~mike

[Justin Hughes]

Radius of tubeless Switchback Hill EL on Crest Mk3 rim (i23) at 30psi is 345mm.

[Stephen Poole]

Excellent, thanks Justin - I can extrapolate from there.  :-)

BTW, is your front caliper now clearing the spokes okay when the bike is actually ridden?