Custom Rack Builder in Boston Area?

[Rick F]

  I'm considering using Paul Components Neo Retro/Touring brakes on an upcoming build but need a front rack solution.  Because the Pauls and mounting bolts extend out pretty far a Nitto M12 will no longer align properly with both the canti mounts and the fork crown.  I'd like to get some quotes from Boston area builders who can either custom build a similar rack or maybe even modify an M12 to fit.Any ideas or recommendations?

Thanks,
   Rick F in Bedford, MA

[Philip Kim]

geekhouse?

[John L]

Might try Beardman http://www.beardmanbicycles.com/#repairs - seems wiling to take on smaller projects.

Probably someone at Artisan's Asylum in Somerville would do it (or help you to do it yourself).

[Jeff Bertolet]

I'm using an M12 rack with old shimano cantis that extend past the end of the boss. I had to bend the rack struts to reach down to the canti boss. From crown hole to canti boss is 103mm on this frame. I think the stock M12 rack is about ~90mm. I just added spacers up at the crown to push it far enough out for the canti-mounts, then used a recessed brake nut (and drilled the fork crown) to accommodate the shorter bolt. I ended up sawing off a little bit of the rack bolt since it was in a no man's land of too long for a recessed nut, not long enough for a regular nut.

Short answer, the M12 could probably be made to fit. If you are uncomfortable/unwilling to take the extended time and effort to do it, then a custom is the way to go. 

On Thursday, August 25, 2016 at 2:34:52 PM UTC-4, Rick F wrote:

[Fred Blasdel]

Don't choose the Paul brakes.

They're expensive, heavy, have terrible fitment problems with platform racks, and don't work any better!

Just get the Tektro CR720 / CR710, they're lightweight forged cheap and awesome with modern linear springs

If you want something fancy and boutique MUSA there's the Bruce Gordon cantis, the Shimano CX cantis are also really good with easy setup.

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[Mike Schiller]

of course that's just Fred's opinion... my opinion is the Tektro's are not as easy to adjust and don't work as well as Pauls.  And I like supporting US manufacturing.

As far as the Bruce Gordon canti's they use the same design as the Pauls and would have the same offset issues. 

I prefer adding mid fork mounts so that the rack is separate from the brake boss.  Then either the Nitto mini Campee or the Haulin Colin racks just bolt on.

~mike

Carlsbad Ca

[Rick F]

Thanks guys for the feedback.  I'm a little familiar with Geekhouse but hadn't heard of Beardman before. 

Jeff, I'm not opposed to extra time and effort but I have to admit to some squeamishness about drilling out the fork crown.  I'm also not sure I can fully picture what you're describing.  If you happen to have a photo that shows what you did I'd be interested in seeing it. 

Fred and Mike, I've gone back and forth on which brakes would be best to use.  Ask enough people and you're bound to hear the opinion you want to hear.  I do think the Tektros would be sufficient but I wanted to get something a little more out of the ordinary.  The Pauls are roughly 4X the cost of the Tektros.  Are they 4X better in performance?  Most likely not.  What makes them worth it to me (so long as I can figure out a reasonable rack solution) is that they are a) out of the ordinary, b) come in polished silver, c) MUSA and d) I believe them to be high quality and perform well.  The ease of adjustment and whether bushings wear or not or not are matters of opinion that I read about but can't comment on. 

As for other possibilities, the Shimanos don't come in polished silver.  CAFAM II look real nice but I think the rear will stick out far (which is why I like the Paul Touring for rear) and I believe they present the same problem for a front rack.  Bruce Gordon cantis I'm sure are nice but the style just doesn't appeal to me not to mention the even more premium price. 

Thanks again for chiming in with your knowledge and opinions.

[Minh Giang]

Rick,

WRT to the Cafam, are you sure that they will present the same problem as Pauls?  When i had the Cafams (at least the 1st gen) they did not sit as far out as the Pauls.  If you can find them, the Cafam v1 is very similiar to the Paul tourings, while the Cafam v2 are like the neo-retro, so the Cafam could be a viable alternative if you mix & match.  

the only reason i switched to Pauls from the Cafam was because i had Pauls on another bike and the adjustment is different enough (and i wrench rare enough) that i wanted both bikes to have the same brakes.  

[Philip Kim]

Tektro CR720's come in polished silver, IME stop just as well as Paul's with Kool Stop Salmon. Forged aluminum, rather than CNCed, and cheap! IMO better hanger/yoke, and cartridge pads are convenient.

I went with Pauls for the rubber seal and stainless steel bushing, MUSA factor, and to support a great company that has went really out of their way more than once to make sure I was a happy customer. If I had to limited funds, I would probably just get Tektros and an extra set of Kool Stop pads, and use the money to help pay for a Rene Herse Crank or a better to get my seat tube brazed on with a Compass Tail light

If you're really gunning for Paul brakes, I would suggest skipping the Neo Retros, and putting both Touring Cantis front and rear.

On Friday, August 26, 2016 at 8:40:26 AM UTC-4, Rick F wrote:

[Rick F]

As far as I can tell the gen 2 version will have the same problem.  They have a similar adjustment mechanism to the Pauls.  I also contacted IRD and they responded that it "looks tricky" and tried to steer me towards a different rack that doesn't mount on the canti bosses.  Definitive information on these brakes is pretty thin though. 

[Rick F]

All good reasons to go with the Pauls and I agree with them.  While I don't have unlimited funds I do have some room in the budget for these. 

Your recommendation of Touring for both front and rear is one I've seen before.  I assume that's based on first hand experience?  I'm still kind of amazed that Paul states that the Neo Retro provides better stopping power and should be up front.  Any idea why they continue to recommend this if the Touring is better?

Rick F in Bedford, MA

[Minh Giang]

Rick,

WRT your last point, personally i do feel like the neo-retro provide more power than the touring, which is not to say that the touring do not provide enough.  i think some of the noise around foregoing the mix and just do touring all around is that for most people the touring are good enough and there aren't enough pros to outweigh the cons to go with the neo-retro.  

i run this combo on two different bikes, maybe my touring are setup poorly and my neo-retro well so that exaggerates the differences, but that's my personal exp.  i thought the primary reason paul suggest the mix is that the neo-retro can cause heel clearance problems in the rear, so i always read the suggestion from pauls not that the touring aren't strong enough for the front but that the neo-retro causes clearance issues so do the touring in the back instead of neo-retros all around.  

and interesting about the cafam2, a bit suprised they went this route, the gen1s were not this way.  

[Allan Desmond]

I run the Paul touring Cantis and the Nitto front touring rack from Rivendell. Brakes are the very best an the rack ages better than most..

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Allan Desmond
Desmond Tactical
702.764.8656
desmond...@gmail.com

[Fred Blasdel]

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 5:40 AM, Rick F <rick...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Pauls are roughly 4X the cost of the Tektros.  Are they 4X better in performance?  Most likely not.  What makes them worth it to me (so long as I can figure out a reasonable rack solution) is that they are a) out of the ordinary, b) come in polished silver, c) MUSA and d) I believe them to be high quality and perform well.  The ease of adjustment and whether bushings wear or not or not are matters of opinion that I read about but can't comment on.

In my experience the Pauls offer slightly worse feel for all their complications, not better

They work fine but if you're gonna attach a rando rack to the brake posts it's absolutely not worth the trouble. Spending hundreds of dollars extra on brakes and adapters and customizing a rack to work is a losing proposition.

The Tektros are also available in polished silver, and the simple design doesn't require the o-ring seals or concentric pivots. They also have much nicer-feeling linear springs that adjust with a 3mm allen, instead of the hidden coil springs that require multiple box wrenches with the rack removed.

[desmond...@gmail.com]

I've own a set on my touring bicycle for 20 years. Great - strong brake( aside from cost $ but worth every penny if you can afford them.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Eric Keller]

I see pictures of M12 mounted to Paul cantilevers online, and it looks
like it mounts very far from the tire. Then again, it looks like it's
an inch too high when it is mounted to more conventional cantilever
brakes. This is definitely an advantage to custom racks. You could
have it made with a spacer at the crown in case you get tired of the
Paul brakes.

Never liked the Tektro cantilevers much. I have some Pauls I'm going
to put on a bike soon, even though I've come to dislike cantilevers.

[Jeff Bertolet]

Here is a picture of an M12 rack mounted w/ spacers at the canti bosses. Used a fork crown mounted hanger to reduce brake shudder and that put the rack further from the fork, so spacers were necessary at the boss as well. Not ideal, makes adjusting the brakes more finicky, but everything works well: rack, brakes, etc.

Distance from center of boss (at fork blade) to center of crown hole is 104mm on bike pictured and 95mm on a different bike. Both have 650Bx42 tires w/ fenders. Fender clearance on one is adequate and generous on the other.

[Ethan Labowitz]

It's too bad you didn't have this need a couple years ago--I used to be the resident "crazy bike rack maker" guy at Asylum. Reference, e.g., https://www.flickr.com/photos/illiquid/sets/72157637831470625

Re: cantis, I've had my eye on these for a while, but have no experience with them yet:

http://www.interlocracing.com/brakes-brake-levers/cafam-2-cantilever-brake
I was hoping they were basically cheaper Pauls with a more normal mounting bolt situation. Upon review it seems their mounting is essentially the same as the Paul's, i.e. not ideal for your application.

I have a wheelsworth of Paul Neo-Retros on my front wheel, and I CR720s for a few months a couple years ago. The Pauls may not be 4x as good at braking, but I still find them worth the money. I hated the CR720 adjustment mechanism, and I LOVE the Pauls'. The Pauls made me a believer in canti brakes again. Unfortunately cost and rack mounting seem to be their downsides.

E