Crust Bombora?

[John Guild]

Crust is at it again with a new 650B drop bar tourer: http://theradavist.com/2018/05/the-new-crust-bikes-bombora-27-5-tourer-fits-a-2-4-tire/

Anyone have any info on this? Is it a snappier Evasion? A non-lugged Nor'Easter? A fatter-tired Dreamer? I love the way Crust iterates and tweaks ideas and themes.

I absolutely love my Lightning Bolt, and I'm looking for any excuse to buy another Crust.

[Sukho Goff]

Yeah kinda surprised it didn't hit the Bobbish or 650b list airwaves until now. Crust truly is killing things. BTW I asked Matt if that Bombora fork would ever be for sale separately. He said yes, in a few months.

I'm really liking everything Crust right now.

Sukho in PDX.

[Max]

Love that old DA crank in 1x mode... if Matt pulled off <140mm Q factor with 27.5x2.4” tires...

Now, having said all that, is this pretty much a copy of the Elephant NFE?..

[Joe Bernard]

Rad bike, rad color, rad stem cap, I'm too old to be saying rad.

[Adem Rudin]

I took the side-on photo and doodled on it in Solidworks. I came up with ~70-70.5 degree head tube, about 55mm of fork rake, 62mm of BB drop, and 420mm chainstays (take all these measurements with a grain of salt). This is frankly right on the Evasion/Dreamer geo; perhaps a little more fork rake but not "low trail" by any means.

Looks like you could describe it as "an Evasion with a little less tire clearance" or "a Dreamer with a sloping top tube and more tire clearance".

I really like the looks of it, and that color is great. I'd seriously consider one if I didn't have too many similar bikes already. Still waiting for more info on those Nor'Easter frames, though...

-Adem

On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 at 1:04:55 PM UTC-7, John Guild wrote:

[Igor Belopolsky]

It's a evasion/romanceur. 

[Mark in Beacon]

That is the exact color of me and my son Mack's favorite Moo Moo's ice cream, black raspberry. If the bike is half as good, I say get it. Crust is just a town over from my mom on the Jersey Shore, I gotta stop in there next time I visit.

[Steve Chan]

   If it the same color as the udder on Fred Blasdel's NFE?

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[Patrick Finnicum]

I’d reckon that it’s a much lighter shade than Fred’s fork. Both colors wonderful in their own way!

[p k]

I woinder if this replaces the noreaster

[Hudson Doerge]

The color reminds me of John Speare's old pre-stock Elephant NFE. http://theradavist.com/2015/08/golden-saddle-rides-purple-pachyderm-elephant-tourer/#1

Hudson in ATX

[Bob Keal]

P K, I believe the Nor’easter is built around 26” wheels and tires, so if the 27.5-centric Bombora is going to be produced in lieu of the Nor’easter, I’d be surprised. I could be wrong! I do wonder about the NE and it’s overlap with the Evasion, but there isn’t much info out there yet.

Bob K. in Baltimore

[p k]

Ahh thanks for clearing that up.

-Phil

[satanas]

Very cool details - I'll be interested to see the geometry. If it's only 62mm drop that will kill it for me; 70+ and a long enough top tube and front centre...

Later,
Stephen

[William Lindsay]

I guess I'm not totally familiar with Crust's techniques for getting the word out.  Is this Crust product mentioned in any way on Crust's website?  Was I supposed to catch it on social media?  Is the Radavist the only searchable mention of this product?  I get precious few hits when I use the googler to search "crust bombora".  I don't particularly mind, but since Sukho indicated surprise that we weren't talking about it earlier, it's clear there's some other information source out there that I'm not plugged into.  Is it Facebook? 

Bill I-though-I-was-tapped-in Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Sukho Goff]

I think it's mostly Instagram and Radavist that are Crust's primary means of communication to the world. I think.

Sukho

[Justin, Oakland]

Matt definitely errs on the side of “ask a punk” for getting the word out rather than “Ticketmaster sales”. It’s not the worst thing in the world but definitely feeds into the Shirtless Straight White Dudes on Bikes thing that has taken over social media and marketing.

I’ve unfollowed so many people on instagram to have it just be personal pages. I’m thinking of starting another account to follow the aspirational Instagram accounts, bands and companies.

-J

[Stephen Poole]

Crust are supposed to have an email list too. I thought I'd subscribed before, but did again yesterday just in case.

[Adem Rudin]

I think Sukho's "indicated surprise" was surprise was that it was on The Radivist for ~5 days before making it here. Right?

As far as I can tell that's the one and only place it's been shown so far... Maybe it's been in a few of Crust's Instagram "stories" since then, but those are ephemeral...

-Adem

On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 at 7:50:46 AM UTC-7, William Lindsay wrote:

[Sukho Goff]

Right. I figured there's tons of overlap with readers of Radavist and readers of this list. Or maybe I figured wrong.

I thought a bike like this would've shown up here (or iBob) like the same day it showed up on Radavist; by someone reading it on Radavist and saying hey check this out.

[Stephen Poole]

I suspect Radavist is too modern for many folks' sensibilities here & at ibob...

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[Joseph Bernard]

I don't know what it is. And I own a Crust. 

[Greg Achtem]

I’d say it’s a bit “dude bro” but John Watson is a great bike photographer and he really does love bikes. I check The Radavist often. 

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[Sukho Goff]

Tons of beautiful steel bikes on Radavist.

[Stephen Poole]

Yes, but they usually have modern parts, hence the disconnect with some here & at iBOB, where old is much more PC. Anything much past ~1990/post-Bridgestone or with indexing is commonly regarded with suspicion or disdain, IME. "Progress" is more likely to mean more authentic historical reenactment than anything new, Compass products excepted.

[Joseph Bernard]

Yeah, that's a pretty ridiculous reading of the folks at internet-bob. 

--

[satanas]

^ Someone (you Joe?) had a go at me recently, pointing out iBOB promoted friction shifting and lugged steel frames; I get the impression frequently that liking anything non-trad is either blasphemy or heresy, plus there are regular debates about what is or is not "BOBish," etc. Bleeding edge iBOB is not! ;-)

If you want to know all there is to know about shellacing cotton tape a more positive response is likely than if certain other topics are mentioned.

Later,
Stephen

[Joe Bernard]

I don't remember who had a go at what, my objection is to weird generalizations about "anything post-Bridgestone", indexing, and historical reenactments (I don't even know what that last part means). The group is obviously focused on lugged steel frames and there's still a contingent of friction shifters there, but there's a lot of gravel bikes and brifters, too. Your comment struck me as a cheap shot.

Joe Bernard
Novato CA.

[Mark Bulgier]

Now Joe, don't get mad, Stephen's alright.  Stephen, Joe is cool.  We all have buttons, so let's try not to push them unnecessarily.

Stephen, maybe shy away from words like blasphemy/heresy.  iBob is about not following trends just because they're trendy -- innovations have to prove themselves for a long time, and that's fine if you don't mind missing out on the benefits those innovations bring.  And iBobs often don't mind missing out, being last to the party.  Immune to FOMO.  I don't speak for all of them, but I doubt many people there look down on modern stuff -- we just often aren't interested in jumping in right away.  We're liberal about other people's bikes but conservative about our own.  It's partly an aesthetic choice, like lugs or friction shifting.  I don't think anyone seriously claims any "performance" advantage to them. It's 'de gustibus', so pointless to argue about.  But it's definitely a Big Tent.

Joe, maybe shy away from words like "cheap shot".  Stephen obviously doesn't hate iBob, he's a valued member, and the #3 poster there this month, and #2 of all time (as far back as the googlegroup stats go).  If he disrespects iBob or the members thereof, he has a funny way of showing it.  

Guess who's #1 iBob poster this month?  No it's not Igor or Patrick.  Give up?  It's you, Joe!

We all have way more in common than the stupid little things we disagree on.

Mark Bulgier

Seattle

[Stephen Poole]

@ Mark: Who knew there were stats on iBOB  usage? Now I'm worried/scared and must try to get out more! I'm currently in Bourke (outback NSW) after riding here from Broken Hill on back roads - wider tyres than 1.9" Crossbites would have been good; I'm definitely taking 2.5-4.0" to India in July.

@ Joe: No cheap shot intended, just my perception. I quite like some new-ish things and perhaps trust Shimano more than most list members, so am bemused sometimes when folks don't wanna know about things that have bee around (and IME reliable) for 25+ years. YMMV.

Later,

Stephen (who's off to the supermarket to find dinner)

--

[Joseph Bernard]

Geez, I gotta stop talking for a while. I have no interest in being No. 1 Talker on a bike forum. 

[Mark Bulgier]

Joe Bernard wrote:

> Geez, I gotta stop talking for a while. I have no interest in being No. 1 Talker on a bike forum. 

Stephen Poole wrote:

>> Who knew there were stats on iBOB  usage? Now I'm worried/scared and must try to get out more! 

Cool!  If I can keep inducing the guys above me on the leaderboard to "stop talking" and “get out more”, then I can move up the rankings! Currently #8 for the month, but I have ambition....  Sadly I’m nowheresville on the All Time stats with zero chance of cracking the top ten in this lifetime <sob>.

Um, what are the prizes again? 

☺

-Mark

[Stephen Poole]

@ Mark: "Quality before quantity."  ;-)

[John Guild]

Regarding the marketing efforts of Crust: The company is literally one dude working part time in a former barbershop on a Jersey shore back road. I know that it may seem like he has some savvy social media marketing guru using data mining to determine optimal hashtags, but like I said, it’s just a really friendly Australian guy in an old barbershop. If feels haphazard, it’s because it is haphazard, and he’s probably pulling a shift at the local surf shop while posting things to Instagram. Exclusive and elitist is not the vibe that I get from Matt. Not that anyone was accusing him of that!

[Mark Bulgier]

Sorry if this is asked and answered already, but that crown, is it a Crust exclusive?  Is it new, or does it appear on other Crust models, or other brands of bike?  It's a pretty faithful knockoff of the Ritchey/MB-1 biplane, but enough different that I can tell from the photo that it's not the same mold.

MB-1 forks had a less than perfect reliability record -- a few cracked in the blade, right at the end of those long "lug" points in front and back.  I assume the Crust, being for disk brakes, must use a stoutish (thick-wall) blade, so it's reasonable to assume these will be more reliable than the B'stone. 

-Mark

[satanas]

It looks rather like the Pacenti MTB crown:

https://framebuildersupply.com/products/pacenti-mtb-fork-crown-74mm-inside-width-biplane-design

...but not quite the same; I'd assumed they were using that.

Later,
Stephen (who's interested in seeing the geometry)

[Edd Bread]

Thank you for articulating exactly how I feel about Crust! Bonus for the SSWDB! When parody starts becoming the very thing it satirizes it only ends up perpetuating more of it  -nice bikes though,

[Mark Bulgier]

Stephen wrote:

> It looks rather like the Pacenti MTB crown

Only because the Crust crown and the Pacenti are both knockoffs of the Ritchey.   The Crust crown is a much more "faithful homage" than the Pacenti -- Kirk changed his on purpose to not be an exact copy.  Maybe partly because he'd seen some B'stone forks that cracked, and he thought his shape might be gentler on the blades -- I don't know.  Notice how The Pacenti crown ends in a big rounded shape, as "the last thing the blades see" of the crown as you go downward along the blade.

The Ritchey has those long tapered points like a long-point lug, going right down the front and back edges of the blades.

The Crust crown is like a Ritchey where someone just shortened and rounded the bottom edge of those long Ritchey points.  The overall effect is almost an exact copy of the Ritchey, but a little cheaper to make.  Points that taper down thin like the Ritchey are more expensive to cast, I believe because it's harder to get the molten liquid to reliably flow all the way down to the tips.  If the metal cools and stops flowing before it reaches the tips of the lug point, then that casting is a failure and it gets recycled, melted down.  The more fails you get, the more expensive the whole production run becomes.  You can see the effects of that in the design shapes of cheap cast parts -- no thin sections, no long tapered points.

The Crust crown is also thicker in the lower arch, the bottom "wing" of the biplane.  My guess is its a bit heavier than the Ritchey or the Pacenti, but I don't mind a few ounces as long as it's reliable.  I expect it will be.

My favorite of the three is the Ritchey, partly because it's the original, not a knockoff -- I respect originality. (Ritchey did have prior biplane crowns to look at though, so his are not 100% original either.)  But it's also the most beautiful, and the casting quality is better.  

The Ritchey was made in Japan I think -- Taiwanese or mainland China investment cast bike parts are just never as fine.  Maybe they'll catch up someday, but so far, Chinese castings often have "naive" shapes, curves that are just a tad less sophisticated,   I think the mold makers in Taiwan are less likely to be "bike people" (China even less so).  Or even if they are, they don't come from a hundred-year tradition of fine quality bikes, like you get in Japan or Europe.  It takes a long time to train your eye to see the "correct" curves for lugs and such, and that training is a cultural thing -- it comes from the older bikies who teach you when you're a young bikie.  So in a way, the training takes generations.

Taiwanese castings are also a bit lower quality in ways that matter structurally, like occasional bubbles or voids in the steel, or the accuracy of the fit between the blade and the crown's socket for the blade. Edges are thicker (more of a stress-riser), and the surface finish is rougher.   Taiwanese castings have gotten better in the almost 30 years I've been watching them, but they're still not matching the best castings from Japan.  

Hardly any bike frame parts (lugs etc.) are made in Japan anymore though; too expensive, so this is not a "shopper's guide" -- they're just not available, for the most part.   For example, the only way to get a Ritchey MB-1 crown now is by watching eBay and paying collector's-item prices for them when one comes up for sale... like every 5 or 10 years... (i.e. pretty close close to Unobtainium.)

The Pacenti is a pretty close second and has the huge advantage of actually existing in the real world.  The Crust crown might be just about as good, but I'd have to see one up close to have an opinion.  Any of them are good enough, and I'm just being very picky to find differences between 'em.

-Mark

[Eric Keller]

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 1:18 AM, Mark Bulgier <ma...@bulgier.net> wrote:

Stephen wrote:

> It looks rather like the Pacenti MTB crown

Only because the Crust crown and the Pacenti are both knockoffs of the Ritchey.   The Crust crown is a much more "faithful homage" than the Pacenti -- Kirk changed his on purpose to not be an exact copy.  Maybe partly because he'd seen some B'stone forks that cracked, and he thought his shape might be gentler on the blades -- I don't know.  Notice how The Pacenti crown ends in a big rounded shape, as "the last thing the blades see" of the crown as you go downward along the blade.

 I have seen that some Taiwanese contract fork builders will not use the Pacenti crown for discs, so I don't know what to believe.  The Crust looks modified, like the top plate was added on.  And I'm not sure how the cutout would be made at the steerer, it seems like the knife edges wouldn't cast well.  I swear I have seen crowns like this somewhere, but not seeing them now.

Eric Keller

Boalsburg, Pennsylvania

[Alex Wetmore]

I haven't seen the crown on the Bombora anywhere else.  I wouldn't be surprised to see it show up on Ceeway in a year or two.  There are good photos here if others haven't seen it:

http://theradavist.com/2018/05/the-new-crust-bikes-bombora-27-5-tourer-fits-a-2-4-tire/

This shot specifically:

http://theradavist.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/DSC05557.jpg

It is very different than the Pacenti to my eyes, there is a lot more slope.

It's too bad that Crust put the upper rack mounts down the fork leg a bit instead of into the top of the crown.  The latter makes for both nicer looking and stronger racks, especially if you go into larger sizes.  It basically requires a custom rack though.  I've never felt that great about the one fork/rack combo that I did with upper rack eyelets on the fork blades.

It's a fun looking bike.

alex

---

From: 65...@googlegroups.com <65...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mark Bulgier <ma...@bulgier.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2018 7:55:34 PM
To: 650b
Subject: [650B] Re: Crust Bombora?

 

Sorry if this is asked and answered already, but that crown, is it a Crust exclusive?  Is it new, or does it appear on other Crust models, or other brands of bike?  It's a pretty faithful knockoff of the Ritchey/MB-1 biplane, but enough different that I can tell from the photo that it's not the same mold.

MB-1 forks had a less than perfect reliability record -- a few cracked in the blade, right at the end of those long "lug" points in front and back.  I assume the Crust, being for disk brakes, must use a stoutish (thick-wall) blade, so it's reasonable to assume these will be more reliable than the B'stone. 

-Mark

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[Dave S]

I think so.  See the two photos below:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgUQLs1F8Fj

and

https://www.instagram.com/p/BgXQ5balyZs

[Adem Rudin]

Yep, it's definitely a Crust-exclusive crown. That 1" threaded fork is "the same fork used on the Romanceür frames, but with the new Crust crowns", which implies that the crown will be used on the next run of  Romanceür frames, as well.  (Aside: by my count, this will be the *third* fork crown used on the Romanceür frames. The first silver run had the same crown used on the early Elephant NFEs, which was replaced with a unicrown fork on the later NFEs and a different crown on the yellow and root beer Romanceürs).

Since that instagram post claims the new crown will be used on the next run of Evasion frames, I wonder if the Bombora *is* the next Evasion? The measurements I got from tracing over the Bombora photo were extremely close to the current Evasion geo... The Evasion has a mermaid head tube badge, the Bombora has "Where did all the mermaids go?" painted on the chainstay... huh.

-Adem

[satanas]

If the Bombora fits the same as the X-Medium Dreamer (or close) Matt might well be selling me another frame. It seems the Evasion, DFL, Dreamer & Bombora share quite a bit of DNA so we'll see what happens. As usual, what I'd like is the M or X-M height with the L reach and front centre. [sigh]

@ Matt: Longer top tube & front centre plus lower seat tube and stack please! (Or a head tube extension that can be milled off.) ;-)

Later,
Stephen

[carll...@gmail.com]

<Sadly I’m nowheresville on the All Time stats with zero chance of cracking the top ten in this lifetime>

Mark,

If we rank by word count, you may yet have a chance at the the top ten;)

Carl (who almost always reads M. Bulgier's posts in their entirety--not so much others' wordy posts) in Seattle

[Iamkeith]

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 11:18:33 PM UTC-6, Mark Bulgier wrote:

Stephen wrote:

> It looks rather like the Pacenti MTB crown

Only because the Crust crown and the Pacenti are both knockoffs of the Ritchey.   The Crust crown is a much more "faithful homage" than the Pacenti -- Kirk changed his on purpose to not be an exact copy.  Maybe partly because he'd seen some B'stone forks that cracked, and he thought his shape might be gentler on the blades -- I don't know.  Notice how The Pacenti crown ends in a big rounded shape, as "the last thing the blades see" of the crown as you go downward along the blade.

The Ritchey has those long tapered points like a long-point lug, going right down the front and back edges of the blades.

There are some photos of the alluded-to blade failure in this thread, post #21.   Mine is still going (knock on wood), though I don't ride it nearly as much these days.  

http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/my-mint-bridgestone-mb-1-ss-323155.html#post4530600

[Mark Bulgier]

Iamkeith wrote:

> There are some photos of the alluded-to blade failure in this thread, post #21.   [snip]

> http://forums.mtbr.com/vintage-retro-classic/my-mint-bridgestone-mb-1-ss-323155.html#post4530600

The following photos were collected on the web, dunno where/when.  Might be the same guy as in the link you sent, so we can't say "this is one more..."

 

I suspect overheating during brazing.  A craftsman-made fork with this crown might last a good bit longer, with low-temperature brazing and also thinning of the points so they aren't such a stress-riser ("can-opener" effect).  Still that design is sort of "asking for it".

Ever notice how lugged crowns don't usually have points going right down the front and back of the blades?

Two good examples and one bad:

(Clockwise, it's Ritchey/MB-1, Everest, Cinelli modified by yours truly)

Not sure what that says about the Bombora, which will probably not get that sort of TLC.  In its favor, it will have thick disk-brake-ready blades, but then the blade on the MB-1 was not especially thin.  In the third photo, I'd guess the wall to be 1.2 mm at least.  My eye-crometer is pretty well calibrated after looking at tube wall thicknesses since I started as a FB apprentice in 1977 (yikes, 41 years!)

Compared to the plain-old "normalized" Cr-Mo that the MB-1 used, there are some better steels out there now, like air-hardening e.g. Reynolds 853.  I doubt Bombora will get anything like that.  I'm guessing it'll be plain-old Cr-Mo.

I must hasten to add, most MB-1 forks did not break.  I don't know the numbers but my guess is it was quite rare.

-Mark

[Igor Belopolsky]

https://crustbikes.com/products/bombora/

Now available?

[Stephen Poole]

Just looked: 1 each of XS, XL & XXL; no S, M or L.  :-(

The sizing doesn't quite work for me (as usual), but since there's no stock...

I wonder whether they came and went really fast, or are just starting to trickle in? I've tried to sign up for emails from Crust but have never got one.

Later,

Stephen

On Sun, 5 Aug. 2018, 23:30 Igor Belopolsky, <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://crustbikes.com/products/bombora/

Now available?

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[Igor Belopolsky]

yea maybe theyre just tricklin in..

[Paul Sherman]

Maybe these were test-batch for Matt’s approval before the big order goes in? He does seem to often have a few prototypes/testers come in with a larger order from Taiwan, some of which go out into the field as test bikes (Bene’s romanceur, the various Nor’easters floating around), some of which are put up for sale (the silver romanceur forks that popped up a while back).

Paul

[Stephen Poole]

Okay, that makes sense. And the extreme sizes might be more likely to show up any problems too.  ;-)

On Mon, 6 Aug. 2018, 01:02 Paul Sherman, <pgsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Maybe these were test-batch for Matt’s approval before the big order goes in? He does seem to often have a few prototypes/testers come in with a larger order from Taiwan, some of which go out into the field as test bikes (Bene’s romanceur, the various Nor’easters floating around), some of which are put up for sale (the silver romanceur forks that popped up a while back).

Paul

[Igor Belopolsky]

Matt said "Some sizes sold out already. I won’t have any more for a few months."

[Adem Rudin]

“Its a sweet bike, buy it if you like it and want a new bike. If you don’t like it, get on a forum and complain about it.”

lol

We love ya too, Matt

- Adem

Typed with thumbs

> On Aug 5, 2018, at 08:07, Igor Belopolsky <belopol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Matt said "Some sizes sold out already. I won’t have any more for a few months."
>

[Joseph Bernard]

Matt! 👍🤣