my new (ish) allroad build, and a decaleur question

[nm matt]

although i've had it for a while, i'm finally dialing the fit of my modified cSogn.  i had a new fork built, and a few frame mods done, including all the cable guides and tabs required to run discs.  the neomotos feel pretty sluggish on hardpack and pavement, but do well in the frequent loose over hard and sandy conditions on some of the local trails.  just today, a set of switchback hills arrived, and some 2.25 thunder burts are on the way - so i'm looking forward to putting some time in on those.

the image may not present the "problem" well, but my decaleur question is as follow:  the top of the bag closes just under the bottom of the bar, and makes it cumbersome to use the tops - especially with winter gloves, and the bag lid frequently gets hung up on the bars when closing.  although i have never used a decaleur on other rando bagged bikes, one is necessary here as it sees more dirt than pavement, and the bags slips around a good bit when things get a bit choppy.  shall i position the decaleur to push the bag further from the bars a bit, although this might make the tombstone loop unusable?  live with the closure interference and more securely fasten the bag to the bottom of the rack?  i'm interested in the stability a decaleur offers, not its ability to allow quick removal of the bag if that inform any suggestions one might offer.

thanks in advance,
matt in albuquerque  

[Mike Schiller]

for off road use I really like having a decaleur. I use the Berthoud version.  I did have Chauncey make me a 60 mm long version  of the extension for a perfect fit.  

 It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like you have decent room.  For what it's worth I also added p clips to the my front rack and ran a bolt with washers through the bottom of my bag.  For camping trips when I have a heavier load I like to have my bag firmly attached.  

~mike

Carlsbad Ca.

[Brad]

Pushing the top of the guidon bag forward  with a decaleur should not  make the tombstone loop unusable at all.  With a narrower front rack it would create a u-shaped  bottom on the bag which would add to lateral stability.  On a wider rack you will just get a trapezoidal shaped bag which shoudn't be a big deal.  If you look at pictures in the racks and sacks or decaleur hive mind flickr world you will see many, if not most, of the bags are canted forward by the decaleur.

[mitch....@gmail.com]

Just in case it offers a useful option...

My bag top edge ended up in the same position as yours--just under the stem clamp and this is ok with me for a couple reasons: 1) this is a mid-trail bike and a front load is fine as long as I keep the bag mounted as close to the steering axis as possible. 2) Using an 11.5cm stem (measured along the top) crowds most non-adjustable decaleurs anyway. 

What works for this build is to install the bag-half of a VO decaleur upside down and insert the pins into the decaleur tubes from below. This way it doesn't matter that the stem blocks the top of the decaleur. 

Here is a link to a flickr photo in case the attached photo doesn't enlarge:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/95075318@N00/14495265400/

There is still ample room for fingers although I don't ride the tops much, if ever. Closing the top requires a bit of tucking the flap edge under the stem clamp but it's not bad. Using the elastic loop closure requires the same awkward threading maneuver many require although in this case also blocked a bit by the stem clamp. Not a big deal in action since I usually ride with the elastic loop not fastened. When loop is fastened for off-road I am usually reaching into the bag from the side as necessary. The bag takes a moment longer to install and remove from the bike compared to a conventionally installed VO as I depress the bag fabric to get the pins under the tubes. Not difficult.

The photo shows the inserted posts sagging a bit and not fully inserted, showing the decaleur itself bears no weight at all. The sag varies depending on how much I load the bag. Doesn't seem to affect how well the decaleur tubes stabilize the bag, which turns out is as stable as any of my other decaleur set-ups. 

One advantage of the insertion from underneath is the bag cannot fly out of the decaleur. Not possible. Theoretically the pins could sag out of the bottom of the tubes but usually I have to push down on the bag to get the pins out. Just to be sure, the blue line you see in the photo is a key-chain-cable-loop that rides on the bag-side of the decaleur. When I put the bag on I loop the key-chain-cable-loop over the top of the decaleur tube. That would prevent it from fully falling out of the tubes. I picked up the key-chain at H.Depot for a buck or so. 

As deceleurs go, this set-up is cheap and easy to try out. Worst case, you sell the decaleur and and have three small holes in your bag drilled lower than usual. 

Some have found the VO headset decaleur rotates on the steerer but I have not found this to be the case in this set-up. Perhaps because there is no weight hanging on the decaleur at all with pins inserted from below. I'm able to rotate the decaleur pushing it by hand, but it has not rotated during riding. 

--Mitch