Ravn flat chainstays?

[J-D Bamford]

Forgive me - I've been searching for rider reviews and experience with the Rawland Ravn, but for some reason not much comes up. Maybe someone can point me to a forum topic?

I'm curious if you have feedback on the Ravn's flat chainstay design (where it meets the BB)? Back when BQ reviewed the NFE, one criticism was that a similar flat plate chainstay (IIRC) was a bit too flexy (subsequently Elephant claimed that they redesigned the interface to be stiffer). Does the Ravn exhibit any of that arguably flexy nature in the rear end? I'm a skinny, low power, endurance rider, so a bit of chainstay flex might be inconsequential to me.

Also any general comments on the liveliness of the frame in typical 650b x 42mm randonneur dress? The .8/.5/.8 spec seems similar to the Boulder Bicycle Randonneur, for example, so I assume the Ravn is also considered a good quality tubeset? Chances are the frame would weigh more than something like a Boulder, particularly with the beefy segmented fork - but I understand the versatility that comes with the fork.

Also any comments on running the Ravn as a traditional 2x10 (or 2x11 or 2xWhatever)? I'm contemplating selling my custom 700c x 35mm-based randonneur and committing to the Ravn with its awesome wheel/tire options. Thanks for any insight...

[Paul Sherman]

You might want to try posting or looking around in the rCOG (Rawland Cycles Owners' Group) - it's not as active as this group but you're more likely to get feedback from a real live Ravn owner.

I don't have any personal experience with the Ravn but I can clarify a few things for you. The chainstay/BB interface you're talking about on the Ravn is called a "yoke" and basically substitutes steel plate for part of the (normally tubular) chainstays. This is an increasingly common way to get very short chainstays to play nicely with fat tires while still providing chainring clearance, although they're much more common on mountain bikes. I would assume that, done correctly, this wouldn't result in the rear end being too flexy. The Elephant that BQ reviewed did not have a yoke, it had normal oval mtb chainstays. The problem was (IIRC) that they were welded too close together, resulting in less tire clearance and more flex (in Jan's opinion).

As for the the Ravn being a lively ride compared with something like the Boulder, I'm afraid that that you would be greatly disappointed. While you're right that the butting profile is similar (8/5/8), the diameter of the tubes is different. While the livelier Boulders use standard diameter tubing (25.4mm top tube, 28.6mm downtube), the Ravn uses a 28.6mm top tube and 34.9mm(!) downtube. This means that although the butting profiles are the same, the Ravn is orders of magnitude stiffer. The Ravn seems to be built to withstand loaded riding offroad, which means that it isn't going to be particularly lively for unloaded road riding.

I'm curious what you don't like or are looking to change from your current bike, since going from a custom randonneur to the Ravn is a pretty big jump. The Ravn is a fine bike if you're looking for something sturdy, modern, and low trail; but it is not the only option out there. The Endpoint Hunter/Gatherer is made in the US out of lighter tubing and also uses Thru Axles. The Crust Romanceur is also an option if you like lugs, although it uses QRs.

Paul
Kunming, PRC

[J-D Bamford]

I live on the Colorado front range, and have access to quite a bit of dirt road rambles within an hour's drive of Denver. There's one loop I do annually, which has maybe 7-8 miles of dirt, some of it washboard. Every time, I feel that 700c x 32mm just doesn't have enough plump volume for those conditions (at least not at the 68 psi I usually run). But those are the roads I'd like to ride more of. I'm a busy parent and am not going to be doing any 200k brevets for probably the next decade. And I'm getting tired of the same paved road loops. While I've always enjoyed road riding, my outdoorsy wanderlust seems to be pulling me towards those unpaved roads - both mountainous and high plains. The Ravn's design for 650/42 or 559/50+ (darned mixed nomenclature) just rocks my world. Why have two bikes when you can just swap two wheel sets of varying diameters and tread!

Thanks for the observations on the chainstays, and on the tubing diameters (which I had ignored). One credit I'll give my randonneur (a Pereira) is that it has a resilient feel that distinguishes it from stock bikes. So giving up that feeling, and going with a stout Ravn, may be too much of a compromise (and I had previously given up a stout touring bike once my Pereira trumped it in pure enjoyment). I've been watching Jeff Lyons' Flickr stream and seeing him put fat switchback hill tires on a recent L'Avecaise. Food for thought...

[Paul Sherman]

Those sound like solid reasons to be eyeing up what's available. I don't have any justification for a new bike but that doesn't stop me from dreaming. One thing to note is that pretty much any disc bike designed for 650bx42 or 26x55 will be able to swap to the other size with no problems, so you're not locked into the Ravn if you want that versatility. Getting that same resilient/lively feeling from a frame with disc brakes isn't easy, but the flex in the fatter tires will make up for some of the increased frame stiffness. If a L'Avecaise is in your price range but you want disc brakes, I'd also take a look at Fitz Cyclez. A few listmembers have them and seem to be satisfied - maybe some of them will chime in. I think that whatever you end up with and whenever you decide to pull the trigger, you'll be stoked. There are more and more great options popping up in the fat tire rando niche all the time.

Paul

[Evan Baird]

I never rode the original Ravn so I can't make a direct comparison, but my understanding is that the flat pieces were chosen specifically because they offer more compliance than a machined or cast yoke. That said, I didn't detect a noticeable amount of flex when I test rode the prototype so maybe the super rando crowd will find it too stiff anyway, but it's designed to handle technical trail riding. I know for sure that they're stronger than the crimped stays used on the rSogn. Merry Sales owes me a couple of build kits so once I get mine built up maybe I'll have more illuminating feedback.

[Ryan Watson]

I'm not familiar with the Ravn, but I'm convinced that the heavily indented chainstays on my rSogn are the reason it "planes" so well. It's livelier than my 7/4/7 Boulder despite having stiffer tubes in the main triangle and being heavier overall. It has never felt too flexible or unstable.
I'm about 180 pounds.

Ryan in Albuquerque

[Ian A]

Thread drift - what aize is your Sogn, Ryan?