Switched to hairspray for print bed adhesion, but didin't work

[KP Chiang]

Hi,

Is there a certain type of hair spray that promotes adhesion and type that prevents adhesion ?   Mine failed miserably.   If you have a brand that works for you please mention it here.

I followed the advice from a certain instructables and got a bottle of "extra strong" or "extra hold" hair spray.    I even went and picked the unscented version of it but the result is surprising.   As the hot end print a line across the bed, the plastic extrudite line curls up into the air after about 1 second.   It's as if printing on the surface of a non-stick pan.

I have made sure the surface is not contaminated and the print is indeed done on the side coated with hair spray as opposed to the bare glass side.   At this point I am thinking the hair spray formulation is design to behave this way.   The particular brand I am referring to is "Dove style+care extra hold (unscented)"  which despite the unscented label still has a pleasant smell to it.

Before this I was using a layer of wood glue baked dry on glass which I never touch with bare hands, and has worked for months.   When it's time to re-apply the coating, the glue in the bottle has degraded and seperated.   I took the opportunity to make transition into using hair spray hoping for faster reapplication / better adhesion but it didn't turn out as expected.

Thanks in advance

[Edward Simpson]

Haven't used hairspray myself, but all the youtube videos recommending hairspray are usually referring to Aquanet extra-hold, not Dove, so it could just be different brands using different chemical formulations, that kind of thing tends to be very specific. As for the wood glue, if it works for your machine just get another bottle and go with what works. I'm personally using Buildtak on my printer beds, but that's just me.

Edward

[Nick Wimpney]

I've also heard Garnier Fructis mentioned, though I don't use hairspray either.

I've had pretty good luck with Elmer's school glue stick.

https://www.staples.ca/en/Elmer-s-Washable-School-Glue-Sticks-20g-3-Pack/product_644429_1-CA_1_20001

It dries fast and seems to work well.  I usually print on a heated bed, in which case the bed heater will have it dry in around 30 seconds.  It's also purple until it's dry, so you can see when it's ready to go.

If it's on a print that you don't want glue remaining on, it's also nice, because it turns purple again when you wet it, so you can tell when you have it all washed off.

I usually just reapply it on top of whatever's there when it looks like it needs it, and if it starts getting rough from build-up, I just scrape it off with a razor blade and/or wash the plate in hot water.

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 9:13 AM, Edward Simpson <r2a...@gmail.com> wrote:

Haven't used hairspray myself, but all the youtube videos recommending hairspray are usually referring to Aquanet extra-hold, not Dove, so it could just be different brands using different chemical formulations, that kind of thing tends to be very specific. As for the wood glue, if it works for your machine just get another bottle and go with what works. I'm personally using Buildtak on my printer beds, but that's just me.

Edward

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[Julian Rendell]

I’ve tried glass, tapes, PEI, glues, and hairsprays.

In my experiments I discovered a few variables:

• plastic type
• temperature of bed
• “glue” concentration

Tapes worked ok, but needed regular replacement, and usually re-levelling the bed… I’m a bit clumsy and always seem to bump something.

For me the Fructus brand hair spray worked best- pump action liquid, not an aerosol. but a bit fragrant :-), and if memory serves, better for ABS than PLA. Look for something with a lot of plastics listed. I had to do a lot of in-store googling to figure out which had the most plastic ingredients.

But it still wasn’t as reliable as abs-slurry (for ABS). I was also concerned about the aerosol created getting on the printers moving parts.

Glue stick worked well, but after a while I get a bumpy bed.

Now I find a ~1/8:1 ratio of PVA carpenters glue (“white glue”) to water, brushed on with a chip (foam) brush, on a heated PEI bed, to be the most reliable and easy to work with. I’ve had good luck with this for PLA, PET-G, TPU, and ABS (though I often add a bit of extra glue for ABS.) It’s somewhat self levelling, and when it’s getting noticeably un-even, it will soak off in water, ready for re-coating. I’ve used both dollar store and hardware store brands. Cheapest has been to buy the largest bottle at the hardware store and decant some into a (dollar store) smaller glue bottle.

If memory serves it holds stronger on glass; I’d try a more dilute solution first.

Julian

[John Biehler]

Like Julian mentioned, it really depends on what material you're printing with.

I despise using any crap that I have to spray or apply to a bed (slurry, glue, etc.) since it usually ruins the print in some way and most prints I've seen using these 'tricks' look like garbage on the bottom layer. 

But I also print PLA 99% of the time and blue tape or buildtak-like surfaces have worked fine for me. If they don't work for you, it's likely you're either using the wrong kind of tape, its dirty/contaminated, too low/high nozzle or your bed isn't level. Definitely some other materials need a heated bed, an enclosure or some other magic to print properly.

I see so many people trying to compensate for unlevel beds with some kind of gunk/remedy it pains me.

Also, worth noting that sometimes it's simply a slicing issue - rotating the model in the slicing tool 90 degrees can sometimes solve (initial first layer) adhesion issues caused by the path the printer takes due to the slicing. It's one of the oldest tips I got when I started that continues to regularly prove useful.

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[John Biehler]

Reposting Nick's reply since we both got out of the email thread in our replies (to each other):

Nick wrote:

I've found that a thin layer of glue stick is pretty trouble free, other than occasionally sticking a bit too well.  The bottom layer ends up almost as glossy as a print on heated clean glass.  It should be very thin, though.  More glue is not better. 

I used green tape from home depot for a long time.  With that, I could usually get a dozen or so prints if i was careful not to damage it.  If I printed something dense and inflexible, though, I would usually end up ripping the tape while prying it off.  With the glue stick it's good to touch it up after a few prints, but it only takes a few seconds.  when it does build up after a while, a couple swipes of a razor blade, or a quick wash in some warm tap water, and it's clean.

I recommend giving it a try.  It's cheap, doesn't have the danger of gunking up your rods and bearings with overspray/spillage, it has a good shelf life, and it's super easy to apply.

What John says is 100% true, though.  The glue definitely shouldn't be a "fix" for not having things set up properly.  The majority of my prints work fine on clean warm glass.  The glue is just some extra insurance to prevent edges lifting up on especially tricky shapes.  This is mostly on solid sections which protrude from the main shape, so there's lots of shrinkage strain from subsequent layers pulling up on a fairly narrow section.

Also, on smooth surfaces like glass, it takes very little to make a print not stick.  If I left some fingerprints while prying the previous print off the bed, and don't clean it well, those fingerprints will make weak spots where the edges can lift.  If there's a thin layer of gluestick, it seems to stick even where I've touched it, so I don't need to clean it constantly.

I also print mostly PLA, though I've printed PETG the same way with no problems.  The few times I tried ABS, the prints failed completely for other reasons, but I didn't notice any adhesion issues there, either. (but this is a sample size of 2 failed prints, so YMMV)

[John Biehler]

I'd also add that the tape used (for PLA at least) really does matter. Some brands of painter's tape (blue, green, beige, etc.) can stick too well (to the print or the bed your attaching it to) and some brands don't stick well enough (to either). I've used Scotch brand #2090 blue painter's tape for years without issue. You can get it in wide rolls online that match your bed size.

Most problems I see with tape are people using crap from the dollar store or low tack tape (which is great for painting but not for staying stuck to your printer bed and lifts up during printing).

I've also seen really bad taping jobs....you shouldn't overlap the strips if you're using a narrow roll. 

I've got buildtac on some of my printers (mostly because they came that way) and while it usually works well, it just takes one bad print to ruin it and then you have the fun task of replacing it. 

Tape is cheap and easy to replace. If you want to be super lazy, and your tape is still intact, spray a little isopropyl alcohol onto a paper towel and wipe the tape to revitalize it's stickiness. I bought a spray bottle of it from Shopper's over 5 years ago for $2 and still have 60% of the bottle.

[Edward Simpson]

@JohnBiehler: I've been using genuine Buildtak for the past 2-3 years without much issue, I've found that when it needs to be replaced just setting my bed to 70C unlocks the adhesive and I can just peel the entire sheet off for replacement without any residue. The chinese clone brands all seem to use some form of adhesive that sticks too well to the substrate so I'd suggest replacing them with the proper stuff as they wear down. As for the 'wreaked by one bad print' issue, I've found that giving the sheet a light sanding usually corrects the issue provided you haven't gouged the surface with the print removal knife.

[Nick Wimpney]

Another minor advantage to tape is that the finish of the bottom layer isn't glass smooth, so if it's in an aesthetic application where the bottom is going to be visible, it'll blend in a lot better, as compared to one surface being super glossy, and the others having a more satin finish due to the layers.

I print mostly mechanical things where it doesn't matter, but it might be worth keeping in mind depending
what you are printing.

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[Lance Burrows]

I print mostly with ABS and have had good luck with Garnier Fructis hairspray on glass.

Don't be lazy. Take the glass off the bed to apply the spray so  you don't gum up your printer over time.

[John Grindon]

Here is my 2 cents worth

NO MORE BLUE TAPE....... PERIOD !

No hairspray, glues, melted crap.. Make sure your bed is LEVEL, thats a big one. Heated bed, a must. I use 70 to 90 deg C on a VERY clean piece of 6mm plate glass.  I have no issues printing with PetG and PLA. Once cooled down they lift off with ZERO force. NO warping. Why would you want to do it any other way ?

John Grindon

Evolution 3D printer Inc.

[John Grindon]

If you can't live a shiny mirror finish on the bottom, just hit it with some sandpaper !

[Julian Rendell]

@John - not everyone has a heated bed, and even if you do, you may not want to run the heated bed for eg PLA, which will stick super nice on a cold bed with just a little “primer”.

@Lance - not all printers have (easily) removable beds. It’s probably my biggest annoyance with Lulzbot; they glue their bed heater to the glass plate. To remove the bed requires partially dismantling it, and usually re-levelling it when you put it back. Thus I didn’t stick (yes, bad pun) to the hairspray for long, and moved on to PEI.

I have had a lot of luck with PEI. I think it does require a heated bed, but if kept really clean, everything sticks to it, and prints pop of nicely when cool.

My only issue with it has been the 3M double sided sheet eventually “loosing stick” in the middle. Large prints have sometimes warped because of this. If money was no option I’d be looking for a thick piece.

Cheers,

Julian

[François Lahey]

If you never tried, maybe you should try...

https://www.voxelfactory.com/collections/tools/products/3dlac-tapes-replacement-to-make-abs-pla-and-_xt-stick-properly-to-heated-glass

We use it on our workbench so I guess it stick pretty well (ON HEATED BED ONLY, better over glass). The part is released while the bed is cooling down.

Perfect for almost everything except nylons.

FL

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[John Grindon]

This was my intire point. Thanks John. I have even taken it one step further by removing the blue tape as well. For years now, I have been useing blue tape only, and for the most part it worked just fine. Since I have started using the heated bed and 6mm plate glass, it's jumped to a whole new level. No warping, sticks perfect and has a nice finish on the bottom. If you don't have a heated bed, than put one on.....it's not that hard or expensive. If not,......donot wine about it and just use all the crap that everyone has tried and had a little success here or there. I use 70 Deg for PLA and 90Deg for PetG on the bed and 210 Deg at the nozzel.

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[broncosis]

I use the herbal esecne stuff in a purple can

Was what the wife had for hair spay at the time been.using it on glass for a couple of years now

The trick is clean the glass put on a good coat of it and then heat it to 60 or so. Works for petg and pla