What is the temperature so posed to be ?

[theglasairpilot]

Hi All

Just finished installing the E3D V6 all metal extruders to my "Evolution" printer and I have a couple of questions. Evan though the temperature says it is at 200c there is no way I think it is. I am getting around half that when I put a probe ( Candy thermometer as well as a digital probe right onto the end of the heater. Since the stepper is running real warm as well as missing some steps, It all makes sense that the end is not getting hot enough to push out the filament. First question. If you put a probe of some kind ( Please explain your method) set the temp to say 200c what does the probe tell you ? There has to be some correlation in the firmware to make it jive. Any further explanation would be greatly appreciated. I am going to check the thermister value as well as the table in the firmware that is being used

.Thanks in advance for all your help.      

[Nick Wimpney]

Yes, it's probably wrong thermistor value.  Really, to verify by measurement, I think the best way would be to measure with a small thermocouple probe, or using a known to be appropriate thermistor.  Candy thermometers are expecting to be dunked in what they're measuring, so just touching the tip to something won't give you an accurate measurement.  ideally, wrapping the end of the hotend and your probe in something that will insulate it well should give you the most accurate measuement.One way to get a rough estimate would be to push the filament in by hand, and see what temperature it reads at before you can push PLA through it.  It'll probably start to work at around 150C, though only slowly.  I've printed small things with short layer times at low speed at 160C to reduce over-melting into previous layers, and it does work, but will skip at higher speeds.

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[theglasairpilot]

Thanks for the response Nick.

Have you taken a probe and determined the hotend is actually what the display says it is, or at least close? 

[Nick Wimpney]

I haven't, but I'm sure it's in the ballpark just based on how the plastic is behaving.  You really need a fine probe that doesn't dissipate the heat to get an accurate measurement.

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[JG-Evolution]

I went into lee's and picked up a digital temp meter and it seems to be within the ballpark of what it should be. After doing more research I have found out that it's the Hotends them self. Turns out the E3D V6 is no good. There is a huge debate running in reprap,org on this very subject. It looks like it would work fine with all the new exotics , but falls short with regular PLA. It did print ok with the yellow, ( Pigment ? ) but as soon as I put " clear" in it gummed up the whole extruder. The heat just can't get pulled away fast enough ( so it swells and jams ) even when the fan is attached directly on the fins. I guess it's back to the J heads for the time being.

[Rob Hall]

You could get a ptfe lined tube for it

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[Daniel Friesen]

This is actually something I'm finding strange about E3D's kits listed on their site.

Thanks to this thread I did a little reading and found that the E3D-v6 Troubleshooting page on E3D's own wiki states:
"Without the tubing the filament has room to bend and slightly buckle inside the hotend, which prevents the extruder being able to exert adequate force through the filament as it acts like a spring when buckled. The PTFE tubing is absolutely necessary in the E3D-v6 1.75mm Direct hotend. Some people on the internet say it is not needed. Those people are wrong."

Which brings me to wonder. If the PTFE tubing is required for the 1.75mm E3D-v6, then why do they sell both of their 1.75mm E3D-v5 Direct kits (12v, 24v) without any PTFE tubing? I know the Bowden add-on exists (which contains the screw in adapter direct use doesn't need and more PTFE than you need for direct). But if PTFE is required and they're not going to include a small length of PTFE in their Direct kits, what is the point of selling Direct kits at all? They'd almost be better off dropping the 1.75mm Direct kits and just selling everyone the Bowden kit.

((So I do have to thank you guys for indirectly making me switch my purchase plans to pay for the kit with the Bowden add-on, even though I've got a direct drive extruder))

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]

[Rob Hall]

I know with the asain knock offs there some ways to get the all metal nes to work with pla 

It involves some careful polishing and so on

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[Nick Wimpney]

Yes, but if the tube is oversized to allow room for a liner, it's probably not going to work without one.  The filament will get soft and bunch up in the tube.

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[Kimball Andersen]

The direct drive ones do come with a short length of PTFE tubing, or at least mine did.

K

[Rob Hall]

Yeah the cheep asian one i have has a ptfe liner for 1.75
But you can get a stainless heat break that has a 2mm hole
And i have seen that some people  are doing pla with them but they have polish the crap out of them

Googe "all metal j head review" there is a guy that does a pretty good pair of  videos on them 

On Jun 1, 2015 9:24 AM, "Kimball Andersen" <pyrop...@gmail.com> wrote:

The direct drive ones do come with a short length of PTFE tubing, or at least mine did.

K

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[Derek P]

I have been using the E3D hotend in a 1.75mm bowden configuration for about a year now and its the best hotend I have used by far. I have been printing ABS exclusively but I understand it certainly can print PLA. I think the discussion about the PTFE liner is correct and because the thermal break is so sharp the liner does not come close to the hot zone. I have found the fan is important and a high torque extruder is recommended. It probably doesn't have an advantage over a Jhead for PLA but at higher temps it's very good.

-Derek 

[JG-Evolution]

The ones I picked up from the states did as well. There is no way I could print any PLA. The heat break does have a counter-bore that lets the PTFE slip into it. I even put a probe right down into the so-called cool zone only to find out it was 55 deg, C. No wonder the PLA swells and jams in the heat break. Since my machine is a duel extruder unit, I put one ED3 V6 hot end in the aft bay, and put my regular J head in the forward bay. If I ever get some exotic filament, I'll be all set to test it out in the aft bay. Apparently, that's where this hot end should work. I am still VERY disappointed with this E3D V6 hot end and would not recommend it unless your only doing ABS or other exotics that can take the cool zone heat.   

[broncosis]

I have a bit of 3/2 ptfe tubing you can put in there if you want I bought it just for that

[Bernie Koestlmaier]

Funny, I've had no issues with the E3D-V6 in PLA.  Retraction settings should be kept to under 1mm to limit the chances of the PLA swelling in the cool zone.  I've printed in Clear PLA and PLAdium from Taulman with good results.

[Nick Wimpney]

Yes, but it does require the PTFE tube to do PLA according to the manufacturer.  And that "retraction settings" thing is a total cop out IMO.  If you have a long bowden tube, 1mm isn't going to cut it.

That isn't the problem in JG's case though, since his is direct mounted.

On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 9:27 AM, Bernie Koestlmaier <hs.mac...@gmail.com> wrote:

Funny, I've had no issues with the E3D-V6 in PLA.  Retraction settings should be kept to under 1mm to limit the chances of the PLA swelling in the cool zone.  I've printed in Clear PLA and PLAdium from Taulman with good results.

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[JG-Evolution]

Maybe it sliped through the cracks somehow. My E3D-V6 did come with the PTFE. I found out later, it seems to be the PLA I am using from MG Chemicals. They have been VERY generus with us, so I don't want it to look like I am putting them down. The temperture that the PLA starts to get soft is the issue. They are working with us to bring the formula up to the 4032D standard. This is what Tinkerine is using, and it prints well with the E3D-V6.

[Bernie Koestlmaier]

Good on you for pursuing it.  Have you tried PLA from filaments.ca? I have no issues with it with my V6 in a direct drive set up.

[Nick Wimpney]

JG: Just curious... What temperature is it softening at?

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[JG-Evolution]

Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try. I am really hoping MG Chemicals will come through for us. We would like to deal local. We are less than 1/4 mile away and we hope to brand there filliment with our name. Time will tell.

[JG-Evolution]

I went and bought a digital temp gauge just to test the temperture right inside the "Cool zone". The "J" head was around 35 Celsius, While the E3D-V6 was around 55 Celsius. I was right inside the PTFE and yes I had the fans going on both units.