Group order of V-Slot from Openbuilds?

[Ashley Webster]

I am preparing to order some v-slot from Openbuilds and thought I would see if there is any interest in a group buy. This stuff has a slightly different profile than the standard t-slot extrusion that you can get from Misumi, McMaster, Rocky Mountain, Solarbotics, etc.

http://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot
http://openbuildspartstore.com/wheels-bearings/

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Mr. Ashley Webster

3DPrintVancouver.com

(604) 862-3940

[NickW]

Have you ordered yet?  I might be interested in getting some as well.

[Ashley Webster]

I have not. Been taking my time to confirm shipping, duty and such. Looks like I will order from http://www.smw3d.com. The guys at Openbuilds are totally non-responsive. I'm not in a rush so take your time and figure out what you need.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 7:26 PM, NickW <nick.w...@gmail.com> wrote:

Have you ordered yet?  I might be interested in getting some as well.

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[Daniel Friesen]

If you don't mind mixing non-vslot stuff into the order. I could use 4x "Bed leveling spring 2", 1x "Extruder Spring", and 2x "5mm x 5mm" flexible couplers.

Can't find anything else there that I wouldn't prefer to buy somewhere else.

[Daniel Friesen]

Oh right, plus one "Bed leveling spring 1".

[Ashley Webster]

Slight change of plans. I'm going to get my aluminium extrusion locally through Rocky Mountain Motion Control and just stick with standard t-slot. Turns out the v-slot is manufactured in China which runs the risk of getting hit with high anti-dumping fees on import. That being said, I also need a number of other things like springs, couplers, and belts so I'm probably going to place an order from both SMW3D and from www.robotdigg.com. Actually I'll probably be grabbing a few things from Aliexpress also like a custom sized silicon heating pad from Alirubber. I still working on the design and expect to place orders in a few weeks. Send me your lists.

ashley

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[Daniel Friesen]

Hmmm, interesting. RobotDigg has NEMA 17 stepper motors which appear cheaper than the ones I was going to order, but seem to have a larger number of steps. I might go with those.

I considered ordering GT2 pulleys and belts from RobotDigg, but this pulley and belt package from Aliexpress is still cheaper than buying from RobotDigg.

Here, I'll make this simpler and share a Google spreadsheet. I'll edit it if I want to add anything, so tell me when you put the stuff into the cart.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12xAdJqkQK9HuU21mIVk5BWqrxITNgUH8nMMlVtAFKK8/edit?usp=sharing

Also tell me how much extra shipping cost my part of the order adds. I have a $68.00-$73.00 free shipping source for 5 stepper motors, so if shipping for the 5 stepper motors from RobotDigg is over $20, on top of the $49.00 then it might defeat the purpose.

[Ashley Webster]

I've been considering experimenting with 0.9 degree steppers also. At least theoretically, you should get higher resolution and less ringing on corners. If they have enough holding torque for you, they might be a good option - the RobotDigg ones have slightly less than the Aliexpress ones. I'm always a little leery of ordering from Aliexpress unless it's a tested vendor though. RobotDigg, despite a quirky ordering system and slow shipping, has become a trusted source.

At any rate, I'll email when I'm ready to place orders. Anyone else is free to jump in.

ashley

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[Daniel Friesen]

The RepRap page on NEMA 17 motors say 0.44Nm can work so the RobotDigg ones should work. From the sounds of it people use 0.44Nm motors fine with direct drive bowden extruders, which theoretically require more torque than my non-bowden direct drive extruder.

[Nick Wimpney]

You need to look at the torque vs speed too. Some motors lose torque faster than others with rpm.  Inductance is a big factor.   I have a 1.7A 1.8degree, and a 2.5A 0.9degree, and at a given rpm,  I usually get more torque from the smaller motor.  The other one is more precise,  and has more holding torque though.

Things can be counterintuitive with  steppers.  I also got more force out of my extruder's motor at high speeds (retracts)  by gearing it higher.

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[Daniel Friesen]

Around when do you think you'll do these orders?

I'm spacing out orders ~$50 or more over time and want to figure out if I have room to order another batch of parts this month.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]

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[Ashley Webster]

I'm moving slowly, taking my time on the design. I'm planning to order the aluminium extrusion locally next week and then get going on some of the components a little after. I'll probably start with steppers, pulleys, belts, and bearings from RobotDigg so I can begin testing the XY motion. Saving the extruder and heated bed for last.

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[Daniel Friesen]

I've got my power supply (second hand 24V Meanwell off Craigslist), aluminum extrusions, and printed parts already.

Personally I'm planning to get my pulleys, belts, and bearings off Aliexpress.

[Daniel Friesen]

I added an extra spring to the order since it looks like the a second spring was added to the new direct drive extruder, in case I want to upgrade.

[Daniel Friesen]

I had a chat with RobotDigg. Shipping for 5 stepper motors alone is around $35 USD. It does get cheaper on larger orders, it's $125 USD for 50 motors ($12.50 USD for each 5).
But I doubt we'll find 8 other people wanting to do a group order. So the shipping for stepper motors from RobotDigg will likely cost us somewhere near $35 USD each.

I might just drop the stepper motors from my part of the group buy and go back to an Aliexpress seller for them.

[Ashley Webster]

Whoa, that's friggin' cheap for the larger order. I'm tempted to just order 50 and build an inventory. Did he say if they needed to all be the same SKU or can we mix and match steppers?

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[Daniel Friesen]

I'm only talking about the shipping cost, the cost of the motors themselves is separate. So it's based on dimensions and weight of the package (though they only talked about weight).
I'm not sure if they do any volume discounts for the motors themselves, I haven't heard anything about that.

They said that 5 motors was about 2.1Kg, shipping for which was about $35 USD. And shipping for 21Kg was $125 USD (the weight of 50 motors).

So, unless they have a volume discount for the motors themselves the cost is:

	Motor cost	Shipping	Order cost	Equivalent to
5 motors	$49/5pc	$35	$84/5pc	$84/5pc, $16.80/1pc
50 motors	$490/50pc	$125	$615/50pc	$61.50/5pc, $12.30/1pc

And the cost for 10 motors wouldn't would have an equivalent price relatively similar to 5.
And you would be able to mix and match.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]

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[Rob Hall]

What if they shipped to ship happens in the us

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[Ashley Webster]

Oh, hehe. Not nearly so exciting :)

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[Daniel Friesen]

You can check it out yourself:
http://www.sendfromchina.com/logistics/shipping

Enter the package weight (2.1, 4.2, or 21). I'm not sure if the volume makes much difference, I just used 15x10x8, 15x10x16, and 30x20x16.

Look for the cheapest price option, remember to convert CNY to USD.

It looks like individual shippers are no different in price between Canada and US, but the US has a number of extra shipment companies that may have lower prices.

Some samples:
For a 4.2kg order to the United States it might be USD $46.07 through US Air Mail (4 - 12 days).
For a 4.2kg order to the United States it might be USD $46.58 through Chinese UPS (2 - 4 days).
For a 4.2kg order to Canada it might be $53 USD through HongKong DHL (2 - 7 days).

$98/10pc + $46.07 = $144.07/10pc = $72.04/5pc = $14.41/1pc US Air Mail (US; 4 - 12 days)
$98/10pc + $46.58 = $144.58/10pc = $72.29/5pc = $14.46/1pc Chinese UPS (US; 2 - 4 days)
$98/10pc + $53.00 = $151.00/10pc = $75.50/5pc = $15.51/1pc HongKong DHL (CAN; 2 - 7 days)

For 50 motors:
21kg to Canada said $213.69 USD through FedEx International Economy China (4 - 6 days).
21kg to the US said $145.74 USD through HongKong DHL (2 - 7 days).

$490/50pc + $213.69 = $703.69/50pc = $70.37/5pc = $14.07/1pc
$490/50pc + $145.74 = $635.74/50pc = $63.57/5pc = $12.72/1pc

If I calculated all those right.

[Daniel Friesen]

It looks like I'm dropping the endstops. I did a lot of hunting for those. But it turns out that the RepRap Electric RAMBo I'm planning to buy already comes with 3 endstops.

[Ashley Webster]

Not sure if you've purchased the Rambo yet, but there's a group buy of the Smoothieboard being organized here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/deltabot/WNTOnAk4jZM/Z5fluseXS24J

Ends in 48 hours.

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[Daniel Friesen]

Thanks, but all the stuff I'm working with (Wilson TS docs, E3Dv6 config, and more) are Marlin focused in their guides.
I want to avoid having to discover the configuration I need myself while building my first machine or running into the possibility that one of the few things smoothieware hasn't implemented yet happens to be something I need.

~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/]

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[Daniel Friesen]

And I'm dropping the stepper motors after all. A discount turned up on the aliexpress ones awhile ago and I ordered them.