Big Purchase Discussion: Big Bandsaw!

[Paul Pickering]

What I'm proposing: Purchasing this Startrite 14-S-1 Bandsaw. 

Why we need it: The current bandsaw is quite small and low powered, and as of writing the blade guides are knackered. Given the versatility of a good bandsaw - you can square stock on it, thickness stock, cut curves, so on - I believe this would add a lot to the space and make larger woodworking projects far more practical. IMO, It's a bit silly to have such large, relatively niche machines like the pantograph but not have a top notch bandsaw. 

Why this one: The price seems decent for a machine in such excellent condition and of this size. It having been placed in a school suggests it has been well maintained. It is also looks to me to be the ideal size for the space: as big as we can reasonably go without it becoming a complete nightmare to install / taking up half a room. (Also it's very pretty). 

Where would it go: Room 2 - we would probably need to ditch the blue bench that holds the current bandsaw / drill press for something smaller to make room? 

Cons: 

• It's three phase and will either require a three phase supply to be fitted, or a potentially expensive VFD. Once we move it and handle that it could easily come to £600-700+. 
• It's in Manchester, which is not ridiculously far but a day trip to go get it, assuming we can't have it shipped on a pallet or something.
• I'm sure we could find a cheaper option if we're willing to wait. I think this is very much "good value for what it is but by no means a bargain". 

[Lissa]

I agree we need a capable, working bandsaw.  I'm not sure that running into the £600+ range with all fittings etc is a necessarily worth the outlay, but I'm willing to be talked round on that.  Perhaps a 1ph machine would be a significant saving on that just due to it being more plug-and-play.  If we're talking about ditching a bench, I think we'd need to consider what will replace it since we have quite a lot of equipment that's currently on it.

How much are replacement blades for the 14-S-1, if we wanted to have a stock of a few different options?  It's single-speed, so cutting metal (apparently) isn't something that's sensible to do.

In terms of size, I'd like to see it floorplanned so we can make sure the space usage in R2 is sensible and that it can be safely used, since it will be relatively immovable.

Lastly, as a bit of a side note, the pantograph was fully funded by member donations so was net cost zero to the space, and while it currently sees little use, it is potentially very versatile and with the right tooling may function somewhat as a basic mill.

In short, I'm not sure that this particular saw with all the necessary trimmings is necessarily a good use of that amount of money, compared to what we might get that would be more immediately usable.

I'll see if I can sort out some better guides on the current bandsaw when I have some time, in any case.

Regards

Lissa

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[Joseph]

Just a thought, but I'm guessing it's pretty only a 1hp motor maximum.

A new single phase motor only costs £150, and would serve perfectly well.

Presuming it's reasonably powerful, we can either lump the 3 phase on someone else's desk, I mean sell it, or keep it for if we ever decide to put a VFD on the Sphere.

Moderately powerful 3 phase motors are quite handy for people with old machinery.

Joseph

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[Paul Pickering]

I completely agree that it's not cheap and there's a strong argument for it not being good value once everything else is taken into consideration. Completely defer to other members in this regard, who are more familar with space finances / buying used machinery. 

I'm not particularly wedded to this specific machine, and more than anything am just trying to get the conversation rolling regarding a better bandsaw. Realistically the question is, how much cheaper do we think another option will be - I'd appreciate if anyones knows if capable single phase bandsaws are common or we should indeed be looking at three-phase machines for something that's a fair step up from what we have. My googling only seems to be coming up with cheapo diddy machines, or £800 machines, so I'm also wary of missing out. (For example - a much more knackered example of the same model is on eBay for £550 odd, or here for £875. 

If they are, then obviously the chance for cost savings are much higher. If not, then we're probably going to end up spending £400-500 regardless if we can snag a machine for more like £100. 

And my apologies to the pantograph for the shots fired - I was trying to strengthen the argument for the neccessity of a bigger scale bandsaw rather than take any issue with the machine itself. To be fair, I shouldn't be commenting on the niche-ness of machines I don't really understand! 

Paul

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[Claire Hinton]

Fully agree that we could use a better bandsaw, but I might suggest asking the model engineers if they have a spare bandsaw they'll sell on the cheap.

I am very tired of having to chop bits of metal with a hacksaw...

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[Joseph]

I am aware that members of a few groups I am a member of have died in recent months, so I may be able to make enquiries.

It may mean getting one from the South, but I can get back to you on Saturday.

Joseph

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[Miki Mokrysz]

Thanks Pauly :) I agree we have an odd collection of tools. It's because we've grown organically rather than having a budget or fixed plan.

A better bandsaw would be a great addition to the space. If we did get that one you linked, I'd be willing to contribute a bit towards it.

[choffee]

Agreed that a bandsaw of about that size would be a great addition to the space.

That one looks a good size but it's been painted at some point which may mean it's been fully overhalled and in great condition or that it was so rusty they could only sell it if they painted it. If it's been on at that cheap price for a while then maybe there is a reason? They are mostly motor and bearings so if somebody wants a project....

For reference Axminster do 14" for ~ £1000 - Single phase, 1.7Kw 300mm cut height - https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-professional-ap2920b-bandsaw-230v-108517  (Not suggesting it's the perfect one but that if it's going to cost at least £600 to get that one working it might be worth looking at other options)

If there are others about that people can find that are more local ( or local to somebody who can check) that would be great too.

Generally happy to buy a bandsaw and also happy to chip in some extra if we need. (Unless Nat want's to pick up the wooden bandsaw project again :)

john

[Paul Pickering]

That's a good spot on it being painted, I'd just assumed it was original paintwork and therefore pretty spotless. Obvious in hindsight. I did message the seller to ask about delivery and they've said it can be delivered (for a cost). 

Seems to me it might be helpful to think through how much the space actually would be comfortable spending on something like this, and whether there are any other high priority big ticket items? Would any of the trustees be able to provide some insight into the funds available? I think understanding if £500 is a major major outlay, or if the Hackspace is sitting on a chunky growing pot would be helpful. 

Paul

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[Claire Hinton]

From memory, we have about £3000 in the bank and we're either making a very slight profit or (more likely) a very slight loss.

Most of our recent acquisitions have been supported in whole or in large part by donations from members. £500 from the spaces own funds would be a pretty large expense. 

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[Paul Pickering]

Hmm, well in that case I think I am now leaning towards waiting for something that will represent a bit better value. Seems likely that at some point a machine that is either local, single-phase, or just cheaper could show up. I'll certainly keep an eye out for any listings that pop up. 

Paul 

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[Paul Pickering]

This Inca machine for sale for £90 in Leeds looks like a good deal?

 It appears to be this old Swiss made machine. Looks like a pretty capable upgrade, but small enough we could move it without can rental. Fence appears to be missing, but google tells me a £15 Axminster one fits.

Unclear if it’s three phase, I’ve sent a message enquiring about the motor.

Paul 

[Lissa]

Interesting - it looks reasonably capable in terms of its cutting capacity.  The only reservation I really have (aside from whether it's 1ph) is the Reversed Saw Blade

> One thing to note is that the saw blade is reversed compared to most modern band saw blades. Mention this when you are ordering your new blade and the shop will weld it the other way around.

That means we'll need to be ordering from somewhere that welds their own blades and isn't just a mass stockist.  I'm not sure whether that is something that is easy or hard.

Cheers

Lissa

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[Paul Pickering]

Yes I also noticed this - a google for Inca 260 bandsaw blades seems to reveal lots of suppliers, at least 5 or 6 at a rough glance. I’m not seeing acquiring blades mentioned as an issue on any of the forum threads discussing this bandsaw, so may not be a problem? 

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[Paul Pickering]

Any more thoughts on this folks? Another Inca machine that does have the fence has appeared in Castleford, and the three pin plug is visible, so single phase. £100, with a spare blade. It seems to me a good stepping stone bandsaw that won't be a lot of work to get going / find a place for, and as far as I can tell blade suppliers are plentiful online. I'd be up for going to pick it up. 

Paul

[Lissa]

That seems like a reasonable bandsaw and not an unreasonable price if it's functional.  Any idea how tall they are - would it be benchtop or would it need a lower table etc to bolt to (does the pictured stand come with it)?  The current one is 240W I think, so this is twice as powerful.

I've had pretty decent results with the current bandsaw lately but something that can cut bigger and a bit faster would be great.  Perhaps we could get some fine tooth blades suitable for metal for the current one.

Lissa

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[Gavin Atkinson]

Indeed, if it works well this looks nice.  Going by photos it's probably the Euro 260, in which case the specs are at https://machineatlas.com/machines/inca-euro-260/ and that seems like a good price compared to what they usually go for.

Gavin

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[Paul Pickering]

It's roughly 900mm tall (judging from this). 

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