Parent of a future forecaster
Patricia Presher
Roy Lamberton Gmail
There are some simple weather stations, (AcuRite & La Crosse) at Lowes . They are selling the system that I originally set up over the counter now (I had to order mine) . Most are under $100.00 altho the Acurite unit that does the full wind direction and speed is $129.98 - and you'd probably need a mounting pole to put it up.
You can get a more advanced system with Lighting detection for under $250.00, also AcuRite.
It all depends on how much money you want to invest, and how detailed you think your child wants the data to come out. Mot of these systems come with software that will let you track everything on your phone and/or a computer.
rsl
My child wants a station that will provide usable data for their primary Christmas present. Of course, this station should be in a format that isnt college level complex, as though this child is advanced, it is still a middleschooler. I need recommendations and complete understanding of what this will entail financially for our family. We aren't wealthy, but always provide for the interest and education of our children. Please keep that in mind when recommending.Presher
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Don Curtis
On November 12, 2022 10:48:36 PM Patricia Presher <patrici...@gmail.com> wrote:
My child wants a station that will provide usable data for their primary Christmas present. Of course, this station should be in a format that isnt college level complex, as though this child is advanced, it is still a middleschooler. I need recommendations and complete understanding of what this will entail financially for our family. We aren't wealthy, but always provide for the interest and education of our children. Please keep that in mind when recommending.Presher
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Lucy Hancock
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Michael Galassi
it's starting to falter so I'm going to look elsewhere for my 3rd.
Ecowitt makes some very inexpensive highly expandable systems, you can
get started with just a temperature/humidity/pressure for under $36
https://smile.amazon.com/ECOWITT-Wireless-Multi-Channel-Temperature-Humidity/dp/B081P63GFB
or get the whole enchilada (wind, rain, etc) for about $124
https://smile.amazon.com/ECOWITT-Wireless-Anemometer-Self-Emptying-Collector/dp/B082NT8MZX
Both will upload to weather underground and more. I'll be updating
the software I wrote for my Davis to upload the Ecowitt data to CWOP.
-michael
Bob
Hello Ms Presher,
 | |
On Nov 14, 2022, at 10:27 AM, Michael Galassi <mic...@galassi.us> wrote:
I'm on my second Davis Vantage Pro in under 20 years and after several
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gka...@icloud.com
Bob & Ms. Presher:
I’ve been a weather enthusiast since 4th grade – a very long time ago) and finally got my degree in atmospheric science in 2007 (along with an MIS degree from 1989). I’ve helped several friends, neighbors, and relatives put this station up and running. It’s a couple of hours of work, counting opening the box, any assembly, and then mounting the outside unit appropriately. They’re great little units, and I have yet to see one fail. I’d agree with Michael they’re a great choice to start with.
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George R. Kasica
George R. Kasica
NWS CoOp Observer JACW3
Skywarn Spotter KC9AVZ
Phone: +1 414 732 8503
Fax: +1 206 374 6482
Netwrx Consulting
Jackson, WI USA
From: wx...@googlegroups.com <wx...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 09:56
To: Michael Galassi <mic...@galassi.us>
Cc: Lucy Hancock <lohan...@gmail.com>; Don Curtis <dacu...@gmail.com>; Patricia Presher <patrici...@gmail.com>; wx...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Parent of a future forecaster
Hello Ms Presher,
As a long (very long) time professional meteorologist I want accurate, reliable weather observations from my many stations over the years.
Ambient weather is now part of a larger company of meteorological data and stations from the military to young weather enthusiasts, like your son.
For the price, the Anbient WS-2902 is my choice.
|
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John Groseclose
 | |
Omnem crede diem tibi diluxisse supremum:
Grata supervenient, quae non sperabitur hora.
http://photographybanned.com
On Nov 14, 2022, at 9:08 AM, gkasica via wxqc <wx...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Bob & Ms. Presher:I’ve been a weather enthusiast since 4th grade – a very long time ago) and finally got my degree in atmospheric science in 2007 (along with an MIS degree from 1989). I’ve helped several friends, neighbors, and relatives put this station up and running. It’s a couple of hours of work, counting opening the box, any assembly, and then mounting the outside unit appropriately. They’re great little units, and I have yet to see one fail. I’d agree with Michael they’re a great choice to start with.---
George R. KasicaGeorge R. KasicaNWS CoOp Observer JACW3Skywarn Spotter KC9AVZPhone: +1 414 732 8503Fax: +1 206 374 6482Netwrx ConsultingJackson, WI USAFrom: wx...@googlegroups.com <wx...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 09:56
To: Michael Galassi <mic...@galassi.us>
Cc: Lucy Hancock <lohan...@gmail.com>; Don Curtis <dacu...@gmail.com>; Patricia Presher <patrici...@gmail.com>; wx...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Parent of a future forecaster
Hello Ms Presher,As a long (very long) time professional meteorologist I want accurate, reliable weather observations from my many stations over the years.Ambient weather is now part of a larger company of meteorological data and stations from the military to young weather enthusiasts, like your son.For the price, the Anbient WS-2902 is my choice.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wxqc/055401d8f843%24560ba290%240222e7b0%24%40icloud.com.
Scott Kampas
David Vantage Pro seems to the overall best option for high-end
use as there's a wider range of extrema as well as higher
precision and temporal resolution than most systems. But those
systems are expensive and don't last as long as they should given
the price point and performance otherwise. Certain maintenance
does prolong life and quality of data.
I've also heard good things about the Ambient System and that
might be the best option for you. It's certainly suitable. It's a
busy market for several years with various companies competing
with quality products. A summary of systems with considering and a
network worth considering reporting to is here
https://weathercloud.net/en/compatible-devices (CWOP [for MADIS]
and WeatherUnderground are my top choices). I would go with
something like that if budget allows, and they're really suitable
for reporting to the various networks. There are even lower cost
systems that still are adequate.
A newer type around the Ambient price point is a compact
all-in-one form factor from WeatherFlow, the Tempest
https://weatherflow.com/tempest-weather-system/ , which also does
lightning, solar irradiance, and UV (as well as temp, dew point,
humidity, heat index/wind chill, station and sea-level pressure,
wind speed and direction, rain intensity and accumulation, wet
bulb temp, among other variables direct and derived. Each of these
lower cost systems have their downsides but this is used to flesh
out meso- and micro-networks in ways like the RaspberryShakes
flesh out professional/institutional seismic networks --not fully
scientific grade but good enough to provide useful data by more
economically expanding sensor networks (this also applies to CWOP
in general although certainly much better for properly placed and
calibrated instances). The one thing to consider with the Tempest
is that it gets adequate sunshine to power its sensor suite.
Scott
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Ronald Brand
googl...@tedlum.com
I installed a Davis Vantage Pro II Plus on December 15,
2005. The reason? I was sick and tired of the various patio/backyard
thermometers that gave wildly inaccurate, often unusable readings. The reason,
though, isn’t because they have cheap, terrible sensors, it’s because a sensor
is all they have. While it’s possible to make a cheap, highly accurate sensor,
most of the inaccuracy comes from direct solar radiation (day) or radiation
cooling (night), when the only thing you want to be measuring is the air temperature.
That’s where weather stations differ from your run-of-the-mill outdoor thermometers,
they all have a radiation shield in one form or another. While they’re all imperfect,
and the shielding they provide delivers an error that’s inversely proportional
to the cost of the station, every one of them is a far better performer than a
little metal sensor, or thermometer bulb, directly exposed to the sun.
So, there are a few take-aways from that. First, December 15, 2005, was nearly
17 years ago. In 17 years from now your 10-year-old will be 27, so this has the
potential to be a long-term investment, or not, depending on how long your child’s
interest holds out, which I know is difficult to predict during that period. Still,
the length of time you’d reasonably expect the station to remain in service without
major replacements is one factor to be considered in the decision. Second, the
accuracy is dependent on construction of the station as well as “siting”. There
really isn’t as much variation in the sensors and electronics in the various
stations as there is in the quality and attention to detail in the construction
of the housings which contribute to accuracy, stability, and longevity.
Next, there are some all-in-one models and others which are detachable. The all-in-one models really send the wrong message… that you can, and should expect to get, good accuracy with a single package in one location, and that just is not the case.
So, a bit about “siting” because poorly siting the most expensive station will likely cause it to perform worse than its far cheaper competitors. So, let’s run down what that entails.
Rain Gauge – Should be installed as close to the ground as practicable, in order to minimize any wind effect which causes under-catch – professional gauge installations may include a “wind fence” to mitigate its influence. Because the rain gauge requires frequent attention to keep it free of the debris that inevitably collects in the cone you don’t want to have to use a ladder just to look in it or clean it, and you especially don’t want to put a child in hazardous situation. It should be positioned to avoid “splash-in” where rain splashes off of nearby vertical and horizontal surfaces. And while you’d like it to be in an area protected from wind you’d also like it to be twice the distance from tall objects as those objects are tall. If a tree is 20 feet tall, try to be 40 feet from it horizontally (or 20 feet at least), otherwise the tall objects will cast a shadow on the gauge – wind driven rain will hit the tree preventing it from being collected by a downwind rain gauge. The larger the diameter of the funnel the better – larger funnels collect a more even average than narrow funnels. The 6.5” funnel on a Davis Vantage Pro collects 0.18 fl. oz. (0.19 wt. oz.) per 0.01 inches of rain, whereas a 4” funnel would only collect 0.07 fl. oz. (0.07 wt. oz.), giving the larger funnel a resolution advantage of 2.64 times.
Temperature and Humidity – These sensors should be located about 4 feet above the predominant ground cover found in the region. In the northeast that’s typically grass, out west in more arid conditions that might be bare earth. What you shouldn’t do is locate it over an asphalt roof or asphalt parking lot – both will absorb solar radiation and in turn cause radiation and convection which will cause an error in the station’s temperature readings, lasting well into the evening even after the sun goes down due to the stored energy. Radiation is basically line of sight, so if the station can see a surface that’s heated by the sun it can also see the radiation it’s giving off. You should avoid a location with direct sunlight where possible. Avoid locations with artificially generated abnormal conditions – sprinklers tend to cause non-normal humidity changes, for example. Avoid micro-climates – this usually isn’t a problem with small flat areas with good air mixing, however, cool air tends to pool in valleys found in hilly areas, and some places with streams or lakes may have unusually moist air.
Wind Direction and Speed – Should be located 10 meters (33 feet) above the ground, preferably in a spot where there are no nearby obstacles that will interfere. When a body of air hits the front of houses along a residential street, for example, some of the air is forced up at an angle over the roofs while the rest is forced to go around on the sides, so the air velocity past the sides of the houses is significantly increased. Now, if that same wind is turned 90 degrees it easily flows largely unobstructed down the street. So, given how surface winds interact with the complexity of surface objects, like houses or trees in a residential neighborhood, there’s no practical way to ensure accuracy under every possible wind condition – there will always be tradeoffs.
Solar Radiation and UV – These would typically need to be located as high as possible to give them the best view of as close to the horizon as possible and the lease shadows from surface objects like houses and trees.
Anyone who makes it this far is probably thinking, “what am
I getting myself into, I didn’t sign up for all that, now my head is just
spinning”. Simply put, I’ve just outlined the best practices, varying amounts
of which are beyond the average site’s ability to accommodate, so compromises
and trade-offs need to be made. For example, if it’s possible to locate the
wind and temperature sensors in two different appropriate places at your site
then there is an advantage to using a station that allows those instruments to
be located separately. If, however, multiple locations are not an option at
your site then a more costly station that can be separated wouldn’t provide an
advantage, at least as far as siting is concerned. Basically, don’t spend money
on a capability you won’t realize because you won’t be able to achieve the
setup for it, and when you need to compromise because of cost, understand what
you’re sacrificing.
Davis Instruments is really the leader when in comes to stations in this class,
and they’re also the most expensive, generally speaking. Davis is the long term
investment buy – Their stations will hold up the best and they have arguably
the best support. Their stations are modular so it’s fairly easy to swap out
components that develop problems. Over the long term Davis has updated their
sensors and transmitters all of which can be changed out in order to upgrade
older models. It’s not free, but there has been a stable upgrade path for
decades. They also usually offer a flat-rate repair fee where they’ll advance
ship a replacement part, so you just send back the defective hardware once you
swap it out. If you don’t want to do maintenance yourself they’ll basically “refresh”
the station for a flat rate if you return the whole thing. They have a fairly
open architecture that allows you to understand the raw data and to get your hands
on it – early on we beat on them pretty hard to get them to conform their data
collection to what CWOP wanted to see, not that their Weatherlink software was
going to win any prizes, but at least they got most things right in the
firmware and there are lots of Weatherlink alternatives. They have two models
really; the all-in-one Vantage Vue and the modular Vantage Pro. Like all the
all-in-one models from any maker, it really breaks the best practice rules and
you really should not use that if you can afford not to, and have the right
site conditions. The Vantage Pro can be ordered with a higher performance fan aspirated
radiation shield which has a lower error than the non-aspirated shield. It can
also be ordered with Solar Radiation and UV sensors. There is an optional rain-gauge
heater available which will melt freezing precipitation, allowing its water equivalent
to be measured. There are optional transmitters available to allow instruments
like wind sensors to be wirelessly located separately from the main transmitter.
The station packages come with a console which gives you a basic display of the
values. An optional data logger – in some flavor - is required to capture and
download the data for the system if you want to archive the history or transmit
the data to 3rd parties, like CWOP, Wunderground, etc.. Because of
the flexibility of Davis stations, you need to determine the exact
configuration you want in order to come up with a total price. Last time I
checked Davis had about a 75% market share with CWOP data providers. Davis
products are designed and manufactured in the US.
Ambient Weather – Ambient was acquired by Nielsen-Kellerman in 2019, so is now under the parent company that owns RainWise (acquired in 2020) and KestrelMet. All Ambient stations are manufactured in China. Let’s just say, for the price you get what you pay for. They lean towards the all-in-one type stations, which you should avoid if possible and practical, although I think it’s possible to come up with a modular configuration. Their packaging does not have the same longevity as Davis, nor does their shielding provide as low an error, but at a quarter of the price that’s in line with expectations. One place they do excel – without much effort on their part – is their more modern looking color console… mostly because Davis has been using the same tired monochrome displays for more than 20 years. Don’t expect the same level of support or longevity, but for the price it could be adequate.
JR Hill
googl...@tedlum.com
JR Hill
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Edith Thornburg
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rtr...@cox.net
Hello Ms Presher,
John Tollini
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