New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

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Ann

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Oct 19, 2023, 9:28:52 AM10/19/23
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Surprised to see a stop sign on Watertown Street at Eddie this morning and all the cones gone. Cars were just driving right through it as though it wasn’t there. Obviously, the sign is off to the side, not very visible if you’re not looking for it. Not a place drivers would expect there to be a stop sign. I don’t think this is a good solution. Maybe that needs to be an overhanging flashing light?

Ann
Dorfm...@comcast.net

Michael Halle

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Oct 19, 2023, 9:39:04 AM10/19/23
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I just suggested that DPW repurpose the WNSq electronic sign boards to this intersection to alert people of the change. There are also stop signs with flashing red LED surrounds that would be easier to install than an overhead light (whatever ends up there permanently).

It will be interesting to see how the traffic patterns change, as well as whether drivers yield to pedestrians (can't have an RRFB flashing crosswalk sign at a stop controlled intersection).

-Mike

From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ann <dorfm...@comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 9:28:56 AM
To: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

Surprised to see a stop sign on Watertown Street at Eddie this morning and all the cones gone. Cars were just driving right through it as though it wasn’t there. Obviously, the sign is off to the side, not very visible if you’re not looking for it. Not a place drivers would expect there to be a stop sign. I don’t think this is a good solution. Maybe that needs to be an overhanging flashing light?

Ann
Dorfm...@comcast.net

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Barbara Bix

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Oct 19, 2023, 10:16:57 AM10/19/23
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I was surprised that there was no right turn on Watertown Street, although perhaps that has been the case for awhile. It was a little difficult figuring out how to get to the stores right there. Next time, I will know to turn before West Newton Square. I don't know if it makes sense to put a sign on an earlier street, warning that there is no right turn at Watertown Street and people should turn there instead and then go left on Watertown Street. Hope that's helpful.

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From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com [mailto:westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ann
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 9:28 AM
To: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

Margaret Albright

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Oct 19, 2023, 10:21:58 AM10/19/23
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I just walked by – people blowing through the stop sign, rolling it or the line of traffic behind them honking because someone stopped.  The stop signs with the flashing lights around them would help.

Michael Halle

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Oct 19, 2023, 10:22:44 AM10/19/23
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Right from Washington St to Watertown St has been closed since the WNSq redesign. The change allowed the new crosswalk from the plaza at Sweet Tomatoes across Washington St, as well as reducing the crossing distance from CVS across Watertown St. 

Trucks would also get stuck every once in a while making that turn.

-Mike

From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Barbara Bix <bar...@bbmarketingplus.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 10:17:02 AM
To: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

pamw...@rcn.com

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Oct 19, 2023, 1:18:31 PM10/19/23
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I’ve requested the electronic sign boards before the intersection; I was surprised they were not used. 

 

Latest information from DPW at 12:55 pm today:

 

Our crew is still currently working at the intersection. As an overview, DPW will be proceeding with the following improvements to increase stop sign visibility: 

 

  • Installation of white retroreflective stop bars on both Watertown Street approaches (in progress)

 

  • Installation of high-visibility advanced “STOP AHEAD” signage on both Watertown Street approaches (completed)

 

  • Installation of red retroreflective sleeve on both Watertown Street stop sign poles for increased visibility (completed)

 

NPD is aware of the new regulation, and will be conducting targeted enforcement at the intersection. Additionally, DPW will be regularly monitoring traffic operations and driver compliance as people continue to familiarize themselves with the new regulation.

 

 

 

From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Michael Halle
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 9:39 AM
To: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com

Jim Cote

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Oct 19, 2023, 1:44:00 PM10/19/23
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DPW probably needs to look at these processes a little closer before putting signs up and then the warnings?  I drove by as the installation had just been accomplished and it was very chaotic to say the least.  Chicken and egg theory.

Councilor Kelley and I discussed this earlier this morning when the signs went up and at that time she had already spoken to DPW to have the flashing warning signs placed on Watertown.  Secondly, and importantly she was checking to be sure the state is aware of this change.
Jim





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Jim Cote

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Oct 19, 2023, 1:44:06 PM10/19/23
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One question:  Was this significant change run through the Public Safety Committee of the City Council, and if so how come no one knew about this until the signs went up?
Jim


On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 1:18 PM <pamw...@rcn.com> wrote:

Jim Cote

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Oct 19, 2023, 3:02:23 PM10/19/23
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So my last comment on this:
The Traffic Council took up this change in their last meeting.  Typically when a significant change such as this one is proposed the Ward City Councilors either attend as a group, or have one attend and report back.  Since this surprised everyone, and may not have state approval (if needed), did any of the West Newton Councilors attend the Traffic Council meeting?
Thank you.
Jim

Julia Anne Malakie

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Oct 19, 2023, 3:23:06 PM10/19/23
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I was on the Traffic Council Zoom and spoke in support, along with many neighbors. I also recommended using the kind of Stop signs with the flashing red light borders that I've seen up in Lowell, but we were told that had to try the regular kind first.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAHAORJ6%3DVs9FP9trxmOh6h0FSG50u0x26geaJ_qfrLFweH_phA%40mail.gmail.com.

Jim Cote

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Oct 19, 2023, 3:51:52 PM10/19/23
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and so why the surprise at 9am this morning?  Why wasn't additional neighborhood feedback solicited to include mailing out hearing notifications?  This is a big change and needs proper vetting.  



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAHuKTxg7_-%2BLYUUzjZ84HmCRCyUeX92rcS9MMVffAtLrvcvgsQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Gregory McEachern

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Oct 19, 2023, 4:19:59 PM10/19/23
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This has to change. This is one of the dumbest things you could do.

Not to mention the traffic jam at the end of the my street that will always happen now. I also think this may cause more accidents.



> On Oct 19, 2023, at 10:16 AM, Barbara Bix <bar...@bbmarketingplus.com> wrote:
>
> I was surprised that there was no right turn on Watertown Street, although perhaps that has been the case for awhile. It was a little difficult figuring out how to get to the stores right there. Next time, I will know to turn before West Newton Square. I don't know if it makes sense to put a sign on an earlier street, warning that there is no right turn at Watertown Street and people should turn there instead and then go left on Watertown Street. Hope that's helpful.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/016101da0297%241696a6a0%2443c3f3e0%24%40bbmarketingplus.com.

Scott Oran

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Oct 19, 2023, 4:25:23 PM10/19/23
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I’m not sure about the specific process surrounding this stop sign but knowing my neighbors in our city I’m sure this was a very thoughtful decision taken with lots of input and careful consideration. 

I just rode through this intersection westbound on my bike and with — at least temporarily —  no fewer than SIX stop signs and flashing signs, I noted high compliance, and slower speeds on Watertown Street.

I felt MUCH SAFER. 

Moreover, with so many vehicles stopped, it gave me plenty of time to note grimaces of impatience, heads down to look at cellphones, and the aroma of marijuana. Sometimes all from the same vehicle. 

Woe until our defensiveless pedestrians and cyclists. 

Therefore I salute the new stop signs. 

Thank you to everyone who worked to add these signs and those elsewhere in our ward and throughout the city. 


On Oct 19, 2023, at 3:51 PM, Jim Cote <jim...@gmail.com> wrote:



Gregory McEachern

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Oct 19, 2023, 4:36:10 PM10/19/23
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The intent is good. However, without having the road painted and/or earlier warning signs I feel this is a potential disaster waiting to happen. 

I also think we’d all agree the recent traffic in Newton has been insane. I’ve lived on fairway drive for 8+ years now and it keep ls getting worse each year with the growth of our city. 

Was there no discussion of putting in a blinking yellow light on Watertown street and a blinking red light on Elliot?

Again I’m all for safety (I used to bike to Boston daily for 7+ years for work) but this seems like a half attempted solution that will not address the actual issue. Maybe I’m in the minority here but that’s how I feel. 

Greg


On Oct 19, 2023, at 4:25 PM, 'Scott Oran' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I’m not sure about the specific process surrounding this stop sign but knowing my neighbors in our city I’m sure this was a very thoughtful decision taken with lots of input and careful consideration. 

didi_614

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Oct 19, 2023, 5:34:42 PM10/19/23
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Yes it will cause more accidents 

The yellow sticks were working.  

Andreae Downs

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Oct 19, 2023, 6:07:33 PM10/19/23
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traffic Council decides on these--and this was the recommendation of the engineers.



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAHAORJ4dPtz96aFK%3DxcF1u3C174%3D6qGL_Gy1Y8%2BvJG2WXR3CVA%40mail.gmail.com.

Jim Cote

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Oct 19, 2023, 6:07:40 PM10/19/23
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Very happy we have a happy bicyclist but that's a small sample. 
The process was probably not that extensive. In mid September I received a detailed email from Traffic and nothing in the email recommended stop signs on Watertown Street.
I wouldn't be opposed to stop signs, except we need a more thought out plan.
Watertown St gets a lot of pass through traffic and this change possibly makes things less safe for everyone.
Jim


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jdsc...@verizon.net

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Oct 19, 2023, 6:20:21 PM10/19/23
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I would ask if there will be some kind of sign that says stop sign ahead as you approach from either direction on Watertown Street?  I walk this road every day and the cars go so fast in both directions.  I could see an accident happening if a car approaches the stop sign at a fast speed not realizing it is there.

 

I am glad to see steps taken to make this intersection safer.  I cannot count the number of accidents/aftermaths of accidents I have seen at this intersection.  Thank you to all those who are working to find ways to make the area safer.

Gregory McEachern

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Oct 19, 2023, 6:23:09 PM10/19/23
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Agree. And more traffic! Just what we need. Maybe we can use some of this foolish spending for the schools. 



On Oct 19, 2023, at 5:34 PM, 'didi_614' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Michael Halle

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Oct 19, 2023, 6:31:13 PM10/19/23
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This issue went to Traffic Council and was reviewed by traffic engineers. That's the process. 

I agree that better public notification and signage on the street should have been done, starting before Traffic Council and extending through installation. This list is a perfect forum for Councilors with information to reach many people in the neighborhood. The city should have used the same advanced warning signs they used in West Newton Square for this intersection as well.

But now the installation is done. It will take a week or two for people to get used to it. We'll see what happens. Something needed to be done, and this is one of a small handful of things that could have been done. I disagree that this four-way stop is going to produce more crashes, and will have to see what backups it will produce as drivers adjust. 

So I would suggest with holding judgment until we see what happens. Sometimes you just got to try something and see what happens.

-Mike

From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jim Cote <jim...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 6:07:43 PM
To: West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>

Julia Anne Malakie

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Oct 19, 2023, 9:38:24 PM10/19/23
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I posted a link to the traffic engineers' analysis in my Late September newsletter. This link will download the PDF.

bethunelarry

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Oct 21, 2023, 8:54:07 AM10/21/23
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Not sure this is a great solution, but most folks (including me :-) balk at changes to our daily routines.  

BUT... we are adaptive creatures, so I imagine most who travel the route daily (like me) will just find a route from Watertown to Washington by choosing a street before Eddy.  

People behave like water/electricity... seeking the path of least resistance (don't get all serious on me...meant to be a light-hearted response).

Michael Halle

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Oct 21, 2023, 9:07:14 AM10/21/23
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I went through the intersection a couple times Friday, including during the F A Day morning rush. 

Extra signs and electronic message boards have been added.

There was the usual eastbound backup for the Albemarle signal, though perhaps a little less than usual. There were only a couple cars queued going westbound. During this time, there was full compliance at the all way stop. Queued traffic on Eddy / Eliot was much better than normal, not surprisingly. 

From a vehicle safety point of view, it seemed much improved. No pedestrians were crossing at the time, so it is left to be seen how much  yielding to pedestrians happens. The flashing crossing beacon had to be removed because of federal traffic regulations.

One thing I had noticed previously was that more vehicles were using Randlett Park southbound, turning right on Watertown, and turning left on Eddy to get to Washington St. That's probably routing apps adapting to the backup on Eliot.  It will be interesting to see if that continues.

Overall, far better than the first day (not surprisingly).

-Mike

From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of bethunelarry <bethun...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2023 8:54:09 AM

To: West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

Not sure this is a great solution, but most folks (including me :-) balk at changes to our daily routines.  

BUT.. we are adaptive creatures, so I imagine most who travel the route daily (like me) will just find a route from Watertown to Washington by choosing a street before Eddy.  

People behave like water/electricity... seeking the path of least resistance (don't get all serious on me...meant to be a light-hearted response).

On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 9:38:24 PM UTC-4 juliaannemalakie wrote:
I posted a link to the traffic engineers' analysis in my Late September newsletter. This link will download the PDF.

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Shari G

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Oct 21, 2023, 1:05:23 PM10/21/23
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I’d like to see a hard stop on the off ramp - Mass Pike to West Newton - before drivers can turn right.  There are traffic lights at this intersection but over the past few months drivers just blow through these lights even when there’s moving and active on Washington St going west over the pike.   Is there a sign that indicates drivers need to stop before turning right at a red light?  I know it sounds obvious but there have been some close calls. 

I know it’s a different location than the Eddy/Watertown St intersection, but I just wanted to mention it.  

-Shari

Michael Halle

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Oct 21, 2023, 1:15:55 PM10/21/23
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This might be something to raise when the state starts the replacement process for one of the bridges across the pike at the exit.

But otherwise, unfortunately, the infrastructure there is under MassDOT control.

-Mike

Subject: Re: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

I’d like to see a hard stop on the off ramp - Mass Pike to West Newton - before drivers can turn right.  There are traffic lights at this intersection but over the past few months drivers just blow through these lights even when there’s moving and active on Washington St going west over the pike.   Is there a sign that indicates drivers need to stop before turning right at a red light?  I know it sounds obvious but there have been some close calls. 

I know it’s a different location than the Eddy/Watertown St intersection, but I just wanted to mention it.  

-Shari

Peter F. Harrington, Esq.

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Oct 21, 2023, 1:19:44 PM10/21/23
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Was state approval required for the sign or is it a trial ?

Peter F. Harrington

Michael Halle

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Oct 21, 2023, 1:31:38 PM10/21/23
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Newton controls Watertown Street. I don't think this is a trial. This is an installation.

-M

From: 'Peter F. Harrington, Esq.' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2023 1:19:49 PM
To: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

Was state approval required for the sign or is it a trial ?

Peter F. Harrington

On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 9:07 AM, Michael Halle
<m...@halle.us> wrote:
I went through the intersection a couple times Friday, including during the F A Day morning rush. 

Extra signs and electronic message boards have been added.

There was the usual eastbound backup for the Albemarle signal, though perhaps a little less than usual. There were only a couple cars queued going westbound. During this time, there was full compliance at the all way stop. Queued traffic on Eddy / Eliot was much better than normal, not surprisingly. 

From a vehicle safety point of view, it seemed much improved. No pedestrians were crossing at the time, so it is left to be seen how much  yielding to pedestrians happens. The flashing crossing beacon had to be removed because of federal traffic regulations.

One thing I had noticed previously was that more vehicles were using Randlett Park southbound, turning right on Watertown, and turning left on Eddy to get to Washington St. That's probably routing apps adapting to the backup on Eliot.  It will be interesting to see if that continues.

Overall, far better than the first day (not surprisingly).

-Mike

From: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of bethunelarry <bethun...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2023 8:54:09 AM
To: West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [WNewton] New stop sign on Watertown st at Eddy

Not sure this is a great solution, but most folks (including me :-) balk at changes to our daily routines  

BUT.. we are adaptive creatures, so I imagine most who travel the route daily (like me) will just find a route from Watertown to Washington by choosing a street before Eddy.  

People behave like water/electricity... seeking the path of least resistance (don't get all serious on me...meant to be a light-hearted response).

On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 9:38:24 PM UTC-4 juliaannemalakie wrote:
I posted a link to the traffic engineers' analysis in my Late September newsletter. This link will download the PDF.

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Peter F. Harrington, Esq.

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Oct 21, 2023, 10:48:05 PM10/21/23
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Thank you.

Peter F. Harrington

Jim Cote

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Oct 27, 2023, 5:24:25 PM10/27/23
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Thank you Mike.  I greatly appreciate your expertise, and hands-on involvement.
Jim

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