The New Senior Center -- Petition to Keep The Facade!

152 views
Skip to first unread message

arthur jackson

unread,
Jan 7, 2022, 8:36:01 AM1/7/22
to West Newton Community, Newtonville Listserve, Newtonville Discussion
If you appreciate Newton’s historical buildings and beautiful architecture I suggest signing this petition urging the Mayor to preserve the facade of the Senior Center in Newtonville.

Thank you.

Artie 

One of Newton’s historic buildings is under grave threat.  The latest plan would tear down the current Senior Center – originally the Newtonville branch library – to make way for a new, larger Senior Center.

Neighbors for a Better Newtonville (NBN) has started a petition (see below) to save the façade of the current building because of its architectural and historic importance.

There are many reasons why the exterior of this building should be preserved:

Built in 1938 through a combination of public contributions and funding from the New Deal’s Public Works Administration, the PWA sought “to beautify the national estate through the honest building of durable public monuments.” This is one of them. (Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., The Coming of the New Deal, p. 284.)

Designed by Newton resident and architect E. Donald Robb of the Boston architecture firm Robb & Little (to view his obituary click here)

Stained glass windows (see attached photo) designed by noted stained glass artist Charles J. Connick (to view his Wikipedia bio click here)

At the dedication of the building in 1939 (see attached photo), Robert Frost read his poem “Mending Wall”

Newton’s own “Public Buildings Survey”, conducted in 2012, recommended the preservation and rehabilitation of the building (to see report click here).

The Newton Historic Commission declared this building to be “preferably preserved” when it voted for an 18 month demolition delay in October, 2020.

If you appreciate the unique architecture and history of this building, we urge you to sign the NBN petition and also send an email to the mayor, City Council, and Historic Commission asking that the exterior of the current building be preserved and made an integral part of a new and expanded Senior Center.

Please send your email to the following three addresses:

Rfu...@NewtonMA.gov

CityC...@NewtonMA.gov

Vbirm...@NewtonMA.gov

 

Thank you for helping to preserve what makes Newton special.

All the best,

Randy Block

RightSize Newton


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Neighbors for a Better Newtonville <in...@betternewtonville.org>
Date: Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 11:30 PM
Subject: The New Senior Center -- Petition to Keep The Facade!


Dear Friends and Neighbors,

You are probably familiar with the Senior Center (formerly the Newtonville Library) on Walnut Street. Even if you haven't been inside, the facade is familiar. The city intends to create a bigger and better space for seniors at the same location. They are planning to reconstruct the whole building – including the outside of it – to make this new center.

We applaud the bigger and better part. But it would be a huge mistake to destroy the facade. The lovely historic appearance would be gone. The green space in the front would be gone. Instead of keeping a lovely building set in a green frame, Newton would lose an historic gem.

It needn't be so. In an earlier design, the façade was kept intact and simply enlarged in the rear. But now the plan is to create an entirely new structure (see it in the petitions below).

There are two things you can do to convince the city to keep the current historic façade. First, sign the petition. You can sign online by clicking Sign Online (https://betternewtonville.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=3ff0219e108a8ea13bd23f497&id=153deb1851&e=18acba06ef) .

OR you can print a hard copy. To do this click Print Version (https://betternewtonville.us14.list-manage.com/track/click?u=3ff0219e108a8ea13bd23f497&id=4e891c691e&e=18acba06ef) . Return instructions are at bottom of the printed sheet. You can print copies for neighbors etc.

Second, write a personal letter to the Mayor, City council, and Historic Commission. Letters and emails carry a lot of weight. We will send specific information in a few days to help you write this letter.

The NewCAL team will meet next on January 20 to continue discussion of the Senior Center building design. To get a Zoom link for that meeting, contact us by email at: in...@betternewtonville.org

Warm Regards,
Fred Arnstein

Emily Norton

unread,
Jan 7, 2022, 9:38:55 PM1/7/22
to West Newton Community
thank you!

__
Emily Norton
Newton Ward 2 Councilor
www.emilynorton.org
Office (617) 795-0362
Cell (508) 397-6839
She/her


--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/BL0PR05MB49776BE078303D5BF604F0C6BF4D9%40BL0PR05MB4977.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.

Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 8, 2022, 1:22:16 PM1/8/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
Arthur,

Thank you for sending this interesting information.  I would love to see the facade preserved but feel we need to find a way to also achieve preservation of the proposed additional program space needed in the new center.  Have you thought about this and do you have any thoughts on it?  Would you go up another floor? A different solution?

Regards,

Vicki Danberg
City Councilor at Large

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 8:36 AM arthur jackson <arthurj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/BL0PR05MB49776BE078303D5BF604F0C6BF4D9%40BL0PR05MB4977.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.


--
Vicki Danberg
Newton City Councilor at Large, Ward 6
Mob.  508.641.4500

Nancy Mazzapica

unread,
Jan 8, 2022, 3:06:12 PM1/8/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Thank you for sharing the information. The reality is that this is not the right location for this and trying to jam so much needed additional space into a building and lot that is not appropriate and with very limited parking. It would be a shame to lose such a beautiful historic facade.
Nancy

On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 8:36 AM arthur jackson <arthurj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--

arthur jackson

unread,
Jan 8, 2022, 4:24:40 PM1/8/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Hi Vicki,

Thanks for the follow up.

If they could preserve the facade, I would support another floor. However, do the seniors need a full court basketball court? 

A better solution might be be too move the second and third floors back where the parking is uncovered. Why not cover over one side of that parking area. That would enable there to be more space on the Walnut side and you could preserve the facade.

If that is too complicated just add another floor with the billiards and fitness room.

I hope there can be a compromise to preserve the facade and give the Seniors what they want.

Thank you.

Artie 


Sent from my iPad

On Jan 8, 2022, at 1:22 PM, Victoria Danberg <vdan...@gmail.com> wrote:


<ConnickWindowFrostPoem.jpg>
<RobertFrostDedicationNewtonvilleLibrary1939.jpg>

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/BL0PR05MB49776BE078303D5BF604F0C6BF4D9%40BL0PR05MB4977.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.


--
Vicki Danberg
Newton City Councilor at Large, Ward 6
Mob.  508.641.4500
Tel.     617.969.1756
Email: vdan...@gmail.com

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

didi_614

unread,
Jan 8, 2022, 5:02:39 PM1/8/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I agree 100 % with Nancy.

My question would be - Why cant the Senior Center be built on the Land that the City took by Eminent Domain from Boston College??  There would be plenty of land and parking and isnt there a building already on that property??

Joanne 

Julia Anne Malakie

unread,
Jan 8, 2022, 5:53:35 PM1/8/22
to West Newton Community
Hi Joanne,
The building (former Mishkan Tefila) is on the portion of the land that the city DIDN’T buy, or even attempt to buy through eminent domain. The land we bought is now permanently protected as conservation land.
Even if the City had bought the former Mishkan Tefila building parcel on Hammond Pond Parkway to build a Senior Center on, it would have been a long trip across the city for most residents. Newtonville us at least somewhat centrally located.
Regards
Julia Malakie
Ward 3 Councilor

didi_614

unread,
Jan 8, 2022, 8:45:45 PM1/8/22
to West Newton Community
Why not take the Walker Building in Auburndale as Eminent Domain and put the senior center there?  The City took some of those buildings already why not take the whole thing.  And that would at least be more central place for the senior center.



Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 3:25:43 PM1/10/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group, Newtonville Listserve, Newtonville Discussion
Thanks to all for your input on the Senior Center.

I just had a conversation with Commissioner of Bldgs Josh Morse and asked him some questions about the possibility of keeping the front facade building higher to compensate for lost front yard space and building over the rear portion of the proposed building that is now just outdoor parking.  Here is what he said:

To my question about keeping the front facade and replacing the front yard space elsewhere on the property (building up or out in back):

Nothing is impossible.  It could be done.  That is not to say that such a design would be practical or un-costly.  
In order to keep the facade, the front door would need to be lowered.  The windows, if not lowered, would look into the ceiling of the first floor.  One possibility would be to to keep the old building intact and just build onto the entire rear, which was considered.  The front building would be used for storage and other uses.  However this would significantly raise the cost of the project, without consideration for any cost of renovating the original building.

He also said that the City is looking at a new rendition of the project for presentation at the January 20th meeting on Senior Center updates.  This rendition will play on  the look and design of the Newton Public Library on Homer Street, which has achieved wide public acceptance for its design (mirroring and respecting the 1932 Newton City Hall across the street) and will be presented on Jan. 20th.  Let's see what it looks like.



On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 8:36 AM arthur jackson <arthurj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/BL0PR05MB49776BE078303D5BF604F0C6BF4D9%40BL0PR05MB4977.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.


--

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 8:37:46 PM1/10/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Vicki,

This project is to big to be shoe horned onto a .6 acre lot, to busy to fail to provide adequate parking, a violation of the Master Plan and a breach of faith with Newtonville.

Peter

Peter F. Harrington
Harrington & Martins
505 Waltham Street
West Newton, MA  02465


didi_614

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 9:01:46 PM1/10/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I agree with Peter

I wonder if they have done a Traffic Study of that area - It is very difficult to drive or park in that area as it is. 

If a traffic study was done what did they find?

Thanks Joanne 

Lynne LeBlanc

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 9:19:48 PM1/10/22
to West Newton Community
Succinctly and perfectly said, Peter. Thank you.
Lynne

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/283435095.1757286.1641836667189%40mail.yahoo.com.


--
Lynne LeBlanc
43 Brookdale Rd.
Newton, MA 02460
617.510.8032 (c)
LynneL...@gmail.com

Kathleen Kouril Grieser

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 10:02:22 PM1/10/22
to West Newton Community
Well said, Peter Harrington.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CALncpNLHC%3DfamY1Yn3F7xXXFoR3VQoy287c78NMbVcNv5KXsuA%40mail.gmail.com.

Mary Lewis

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 10:17:20 PM1/10/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I agree with you!

On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 8:37 PM 'Peter F. Harrington' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
--
Mary Reardon Lewis

m...@halle.us

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 10:54:52 PM1/10/22
to West Newton Community
We’ve been round and round on the siting for the Senior Center for a fair number of years, spending time and money in the face of a collection of options, all imperfect in their own way. Meanwhile, the lives of people who could benefit from the new facility (or are limited by the existing one) are passing by. 

In lieu of a miraculous and otherwise unconsidered new opportunity or a hidden critical obstacle, I think the siting’s done. Making it the best facility it can be remains the next challenge. 

—Mike


<ConnickWindowFrostPoem.jpg><RobertFrostDedicationNewtonvilleLibrary1939.jpg>
--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/BL0PR05MB49776BE078303D5BF604F0C6BF4D9%40BL0PR05MB4977.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.


--
Vicki Danberg
Newton City Councilor at Large, Ward 6
Mob.  508.641.4500
--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAL4mUy_ZyMzbckNbzQpehR%2B4m4du6oPRhxYqxBKZgzheR%2BEkYQ%40mail.gmail.com.

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/283435095.1757286.1641836667189%40mail.yahoo.com.
<RobertFrostDedicationNewtonvilleLibrary1939.jpg><ConnickWindowFrostPoem.jpg>

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 11:50:49 AM1/11/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
This project is not a new senior center, it is a new municipal building that will include some room for senior services.  Really, who in their right mind believes that the Council of Ageing is going to be allowed to operate this new complex.  Who expects the revenue stream from leasing the Gym and other facilities is not going into the general fund and is not going to be earmarked for senior programing?

Who in Newtonville welcomes a building that needs, based upon city guidelines, over 200 parking spaces to operate at capacity and is going to provide 31 spaces.

Peter
Peter F. Harrington


Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 11:57:30 AM1/11/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
Peter,

Good comments.  Let's see what they present on the 20th.

Vicki

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/283435095.1757286.1641836667189%40mail.yahoo.com.

Michael Halle

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 12:11:49 PM1/11/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Will seniors be substantially better off served with this facility or not?

Is providing additional civic and athletic space for Newton residents of all ages, including seniors, a good thing or not?

Is the new senior center design and construction being paid for from the general fund? Are senior programs being underfunded so that they need a dedicated self-administered income stream? Does it matter practically who programs the spaces, as long as seniors get the priority they need at a one-stop facility? Why should city revenue be divvied up by building, rather that put more flexibly into the general fund?

If 200 new parking spaces are somehow the requirement in Newton for such a facility (and I dispute that), that in itself is going blow the project money and space budget, basically at any location. So this project isn't possible then? We can't have nice things? The parking spaces at Austin St a block away, open right now, don't count for anything?

-Mike

From: 'Peter F. Harrington' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2022, 11:50 AM
To: westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
<ConnickWindowFrostPoem.jpg><RobertFrostDedicationNewtonvilleLibrary1939.jpg>

Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 12:22:46 PM1/11/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
Remember that unlike the current cramped facility, the new facility (including basketball court) is open to all ages, with seniors given priority for scheduling.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/151E841C-8235-D349-B464-84A43F9704AD%40hxcore.ol.

didi_614

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 1:10:27 PM1/11/22
to 'Peter F. Harrington' via West Newton Community
Well Said Peter.  Unfortunately based on how everything else works in Newton the deal is done on this one!

Too Bad the City didn't take the  Walker Center in Auburndale like they did with BC land and maybe put the Senior Center there?  At least there is parking for seniors.  And maybe the City should look at other places to put their Basketball Court that they want to rent out. 

Joanne 

Nancy Finn

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 2:23:39 PM1/11/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Hi Joanne,
I agree with you. A perfect location for the senior center is in Newton center since it is close to the T and has parking. 
The Newtonville site is a small lot.
Wellesley has a senior center as a stand alone site. 
I think the other sports center should be separate from the seniors. 

Newton can rent out the Newton North High school facility since it is like a college campus. A waste of my tax dollars.

Save the historic building and features  is very important.

Best,

Nancy E. Finn, MEd

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2022, at 1:10 PM, 'didi_614' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 2:24:30 PM1/11/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
The Wallgreen's site would be a better place for it.

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 2:29:19 PM1/11/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Mike,

You may dispute it if you like, but I am correct.  See attached
Parking calculations.xlsx

Michael Halle

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 3:26:19 PM1/11/22
to West Newton Community
I don’t dispute that ITE or another organization might recommend 210 parking spaces for a generic meeting/sports/dining/administrative combination facility sited somewhere in the US where people exclusively drive, based on standards and expectations from the previous century. 

I dispute that’s a reasonable assumption for a Newton Massachusetts Senior Center and municipal building located in an environment that has transit, ride share, walkability, bike ability, some transit, a moderately high residential density, and a proximity to other parking resources, in an era when we are questioning how much parking we actually really need. 

But for context, 210 spaces is bigger than the expanded Newton library parking lot, and 15% bigger than the old library lot. 

That’s twice the area of the old Austin Street lot. 210 spaces is parallel parking on one side of Walnut Street from Austin Street all the way to Commonwealth Ave. 

140 parking spaces just for 6,300 square feet of meeting rooms? 19 parking spaces for a juice bar and a dining room? That simply doesn’t match the use patterns of such a building, as opposed to a generic building in a generic location in Anytown, USA.

I think the presentation regarding the space configuration and parking demands will be very interesting!

—Mike


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/1671169782.2376350.1641929355799%40mail.yahoo.com.
<Parking calculations.xlsx>

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 5:36:00 PM1/11/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
As has been said, the NewCAL project is to big for a small space at the edge of the Newtonville business district.  It's not anyone's fault, it just a decision that got out of control.  It has been rejected as to big for much larger parcels of land so . . .

Mary Lewis

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 6:25:52 PM1/11/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
Is it too late to take a step back and reevaluate this project.?
Mary Reardon Lewis, Realtor
The Reardon Team
William Raveis R.E. & Home Services
18 Arlington Street, Boston MA 02116





To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/1156515716.2027606.1641940555029%40mail.yahoo.com.

didi_614

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 8:04:50 PM1/11/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
That is what they said about Albermarle but then it seemed when there was a group that formed and pushed back they changed their plans to not put it at Albermarle.  So one would hope that the CIty will step back and realize that they may need to reevaluate their plans again.

Lynne LeBlanc

unread,
Jan 11, 2022, 8:14:53 PM1/11/22
to West Newton Community, Victoria Danberg, newto...@lists.neighborhood.net, Newtonville Area Council
Good question, Mary.
Vickie, do you have an educated (or honest) response to this question?
My understanding is that the design was pushed through without neighborhood feedback or involvement. What is the recourse to this omission?
Lynne

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CANv4%3DSuv-JAjAS0xFw8z96UVKPngQn%2BWRdOobQTNGGegcuk8wg%40mail.gmail.com.

Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 3:40:11 PM1/12/22
to Lynne LeBlanc, West Newton Community, Newtonville Neighborhood Group, Newtonville Area Council
I have tried to follow this issue since the first discussion that the current location is too cramped for what the Senior Center needs to hold.  There isn't really any denial that this is true.

So where should the Senior Center go?  The City (under Mayor Fuller) did a very complete analysis of every possible location in Newton where it could go.  All agreed that it should be located sort of mid-city, and not somewhere on the periphery.  

The finalists included Albemarle, Newton Centre (Langley Parking Lot or Mason Rice Playing Field), Crafts St. area, some locations in W. Newton deemed too non-central and leaving it where it now is on Walnut and Otis.  The Mayor decided that Walnut and Otis is the best location due to huge push-back for the other locations and major other problems that moving it would entail (need to replace parkland elsewhere, for ex.)

Sometimes, as in the cases of Zervas and Cabot Schools, additional land occupied by private homes becomes available via a "friendly taking", when the City is able to negotiate a purchase of adjacent homes, which it removes and incorporates into an existing tight site to. provide additional working space.  So far, this has not been the case in the Senior Center site, and the City does not like to push residents from their homes for such a taking. There could be a possibility here in the future.

Let's see what the new rendering of the Senior Center shows.  I am eager to see what improvements it may hold.  There will then be ample opportunity for us all to comment.

Vicki

didi_614

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 4:39:26 PM1/12/22
to Lynne LeBlanc, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com, Newtonville Neighborhood Group, Newtonville Area Council
What about the Walker Building in Auburndale?  The Mayor took houses near there and the BC land by eminent Domain - why not the Walker Building and the land?

And in terms of Crafts Street do you mean the area that Korff is planning a 7 Story building with 200 apartments ??  And there was Push back for a Senior Center???

I think it would be helpful to get some clarification from the City regarding this?

Thanks Joanne 

Nancy Mazzapica

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 4:40:53 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com, Lynne LeBlanc, Newtonville Area Council, Newtonville Neighborhood Group
Where is the walker  building located and was it ever included in the mix

Amy Sangiolo

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 4:43:08 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com, Lynne LeBlanc, Newtonville Area Council, Newtonville Neighborhood Group
Too late for walker center. It was privately purchased by developer, Consigli -Civico, and is proposed to be converted to condos with an addition of possibly 5 townhouses.

didi_614

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 4:43:44 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
The Walker Building is in Auburndale next to the Williams Elementary School.  The Mayor took a few houses near their when it recently went on the market for sale.

Mary Lewis

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 4:49:05 PM1/12/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
Vicki,
I guess I'm confused as to why the scope of the project was expanded.  When the plan for Albemarle was nixed, then why didnt they eliminate the other features that were not specific to senior services?  Space is tight in Newtonville, no question.  So why all the extra amenities that require more space AND parking?

Mary Reardon Lewis, Realtor
The Reardon Team
William Raveis R.E. & Home Services
18 Arlington Street, Boston MA 02116




To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAL4mUy_GeAG6amKu%3Dx2wrOe1Who2A0X1D6ToPEQcY8Z2j-z3ew%40mail.gmail.com.

didi_614

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:00:44 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Maybe the Mayor should take the Korff Land by Eminent Domain and put the Senior Center there.  If it is  Large enough for 200 Apartments - I am sure it will be perfect for the New Senior Center with Plenty of Parking etc.

Nancy Mazzapica

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:03:01 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Good point

Michael Halle

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:07:34 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
The amenities in the senior center were maintained in the design because there are constituents in Newton that wanted them. That was also true at Albemarle, which ran into opposition primarily because of the parkland site, in my opinion.

I assume those people will be at the virtual meeting as well, or at least you can find out who they are. That's where the discussion about appropriate size and facilities should happen. Ideally it would be face to face, but COVID.  I think there would also be information about what a modern senior center includes, including examples from other municipalities 

In my opinion, Newton needs far more public civic and recreational spaces for people of all ages. I think some narrow definition of "senior services" is far too prescriptive and locked into an outdated stereotype. I appreciate Newton is thinking bolder, even if it gets tempered down during the process. Sure, it's got to work with the site, bet I don't think we need to preemptively compromise.

-Mike

Michael Halle

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:11:08 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Eminent domain involves paying fair market value for the property. Ultimately, lawyers decide that. Good luck.

-Mike

From: 'didi_614' via West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022, 5:00 PM

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

Susan Albright

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:11:33 PM1/12/22
to West Newton Community
Hi Didi
You probably know this but just in case - eminent domain doesn't mean the land is free.   We ould have to determine a fair market value.  Since the land was recently purchased we would pretty clearly know the fair market value.   It would add millions and millions to the budget.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/812945418.61190.1642024837797%40mail.yahoo.com.


--
Susan Albright, President
Newton City Council
Councilor-at-Large Ward 2

didi_614

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:34:46 PM1/12/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I guess I am confused why Crafts Street was taken off the Table BUT now it is OK for 200 Apartments for the Korff Development team?  Maybe you can clarify that I am sure there is a reason that the city took it off the table??

Susan Albright

unread,
Jan 12, 2022, 5:53:44 PM1/12/22
to West Newton Community
I have no idea.  

Susan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/1706786576.82681.1642026869882%40mail.yahoo.com.

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 11:49:54 AM1/13/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
The city looked at 145 sites that varied from 900 square feet to nearly 1 million square feet.  A 29,000 sq ft lot is not big enough to accommodate the municipal center now envisioned.

The NewCal Working Group recommended two sites, Newton Center and Newtonville, claiming the Newtonville had "Overwhelming community support".  Surprisingly There were no Newtonville community activists in the group.  There was no representative from the Neighbors for a Better Newtonville in the group.  There was no one from the Newtonville Area Council in the group.

The project is to big.  It needs to be cut back or moved to another location.

We'll see what the new revisions bring.

Susan Albright

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 12:44:42 PM1/13/22
to West Newton Community
Good Afternoon all,
Peter - The new senior center is .... oddly enough.... a new senior center.  It matches the programs offered at all senior centers.  I don't understand why you keep calling it a municipal center.  Would you explain?

Thanks
Susan


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/321402357.878806.1642092588727%40mail.yahoo.com.

Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 12:44:45 PM1/13/22
to Carolyn Gabbay, Lynne LeBlanc, West Newton Community, Newtonville Neighborhood Group, Newtonville Area Council
Carolyn,

Good and thoughtful comments.  I agree that there needs to be sufficient parking on site and nearby to accommodate most users.

These are all good questions and should be asked on the 20th, when I assume there will be public comment.

As many have said, this new Center will be around for a long time, so we need to get it right.

On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:39 PM Carolyn Gabbay <cga...@newtonma.gov> wrote:
Very thoughtful comments, Councillor Danberg. 

It seems to me that the underlying problem here is simply is trying to do too much “program” on a postage stamp property (ie, trying to include a big sports-type facility along with the Senior Center). 

If the programs were split, Seniors could be very well served in a rebuilt (perhaps more likely to preserve the historic building front) Senior Center on the current site and then have parking adequate to that purpose.  

The sports center could be located elsewhere (such as per the suggestion Peter Harrington made) on a site that would have parking adequate to its activity flows. Then Newton would end up with two improved locations in the City rather than one oversized, out-of-scale building on a postage stamp of land. 

With regard to traffic, I hear the comments suggesting that the presumed transit orientation of the site (though, in truth, the commuter rail and express busses are irrelevant and no local transit run across Walnut frequently enough to make a dent in car usage, esp during COVID…) and biking and walking should alleviate the car traffic.  But, especially on a winter day like today, I am very skeptical (to put it mildly) that the majority of users of the sports facility will walk to there in order to walk around the indoor track. They will have already done their walk getting to the facility if it is a nice day.  And if it isn’t a nice day, the very reason they will seek an indoor track is to stay out of the weather, ergo they will drive. Also it seems contrary to experience to expect that parents bringing kids to play basketball or other team activities won’t be coming in cars they will need to park. As a real life example, check out the activity flows at the YMCA, the JCC. Granted those two multi-generational facilities aren’t smack in the middle of a village.  But this is to be a facility that is to serve all of the City, not just those who live in walking distance of Walnut Street.  Similarly,  if one looks at the experience of all of the fitness clubs that have been around the City, they all were located proximate to parking lots because that is basic business planning to provide what the prospective clientele needs.

So the bottom line is that it seems like the theory of NewCAL was developed without a site in mind.  When sites were proposed (like Albermarle) there was pushback or infeasibility (Like Newton Centre) and the Senior Center was landed on pretty much by default because citizens wanted to keep the Senior Center where it is. But incorporating the sports facility burdens the small site in a way that is just too much.  
 
Just some more thoughts to throw into the mix. 

Cheers,
Carolyn


This is an administrative email to the Newtonville Area Council and does not discuss any information that will be coming before the NAC.



Cheers,
Carolyn

iPhone, iMistype, iApologize...

When responding, please be aware that the Massachusetts Secretary of State has determined that most email sent through this email address is a public record and, therefore, cannot be kept confidential. 

From: Victoria Danberg <vdan...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:33:29 PM
To: Lynne LeBlanc <lynnel...@gmail.com>
Cc: West Newton Community <westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com>; Newtonville Neighborhood Group <newto...@lists.neighborhood.net>; Newtonville Area Council <Newtonville...@newtonma.gov>

Subject: Re: [WNewton] The New Senior Center -- Petition to Keep The Facade!
 

[DO NOT OPEN  links/attachments unless you are sure the content is safe. ]


When responding, please be aware that the Massachusetts Secretary of State has determined that most email is public record and therefore cannot be kept confidential.

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 2:58:03 PM1/13/22
to susansophi...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Susan,

If the proposed NewCAl building was limited to provide space to replace the existing senior center I do not think there would be so much local opposition.  But, it does not.  It seems to be 2 ½ to 3 times the size of the existing building.

As you know, it is difficult to gather all the facts about a particular subject.  My opinions are made partly from information and partly from experience.  I have been following Newton government for nearly 60 years and I have found that what one administration wants to accomplish loses its priority in the next administration.  As I look at the proposal for 345 Walnut Street I see a project ripe for revision. 

The plan calls for 2,500 sq ft of administrative space, exclusive of corridors and rest rooms.  This is enough space for a whole department.  If there are not plans to move a municipal department into that space, there will be before the project is completed, which, as I understand, will be in four or more years.  2,500 sq ft is way too much space to allocated to senior services.  Look at what happened to the Horace Mann School that was going to be re-used to house the Recreation Department.

The same holds true for the 6,300 sq ft of meeting and game rooms.  No matter what you have been told, much of this space will have to be reallocated.  The demand for such space is to great to resist.

Similarly, the gymnasium is an unnecessary add on.  Speaking for myself and my fellow octogenarians, a gym is nice, but but we are not going to use it.  The gym is a revenue source for the city.  The funds will go into the general fund.  They will not be allocated for senior programing, as some supporters of the gymnasium believe.  The pickle ballers who think they will get to use the gymnasium can just as easily go to another location.

A gymnasium is not an allowed use in a Public Use zone.[see ch 30, section 2.3.1., a Gymnasium is not listed as an allowed use.]  Further, is seems that a special permit will be needed if the use of the building is determined to be a civic use.] 
 
In part, this is why I call the project a proposal for a new municipal center.  I also believe that the senior use of the building will be restricted in time and place.  The Council on Aging and others are not aware of the complications they will encounter.

Peter



Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 3:11:58 PM1/13/22
to nsm...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
The City of newton owns 179,300 square feet of land a block away from the land Korff wants to build on.

Dan Proskauer

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 3:22:39 PM1/13/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
I’m guessing it has to do with Mayor Fuller’s words in her recent update?

“ Remember that unlike the current cramped facility, the new facility (including basketball court) is open to all ages, with seniors given priority for scheduling.  ”

didi_614

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 3:52:07 PM1/13/22
to nsm...@gmail.com, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
It seems like a perfect place to put the senior center.  Take the Korff Land by eminent Domain and with the Land the city already owns and the Mayor and City Council will have LOTS of Land to put her Newton Community Center aka "Senior Center"

Michael Halle

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 4:22:46 PM1/13/22
to West Newton Community
As mentioned twice before, “take the Korff land” means paying millions of dollars for the market rate for the property, which has already been established because it was recently acquired by Mark Development. 

And if the city were to succeed in doing so, there would likely be the same types of concerns raised about scale and traffic and parking and location and any number of other issues. Not to say those concerns would or would not have any merit, just to say they seem to be an invariant when it comes any development of any scale.

If the city were going to do something like that, which it is highly reluctant to do for a variety of excellent and practical reasons, it could look to take property anywhere in the city, likely better in a more central and accessible location. But the city is trying to avoid that significant acquisition cost burden even without the unique complexities of eminent domain. 


—Mike


Susan Albright

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 8:33:17 PM1/13/22
to Peter F. Harrington, westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com
Correction - sorry working too fast.  Chapel Hill has much fewer people over 55 - only 6500 and their center is 25,000 square feet.



On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 5:13 PM Susan Albright <susansophi...@gmail.com> wrote:
I found this chart in a feasibility study done by the city of Raleigh North, Caronlina for their senior center.  This table below from the study  shows  senior centers around the state and when they were built along with the number of citizens over 55.   Newton has 24,500 people over 55.    Durham has slightly more over 55 an their center is 44,000 square feet. Chapel Hill has about the same number and their center is 25,000 with satellite facilities.  Wilmington has 18.097 and their center is 30,000 square feet.    The point i'm making is that this IS a SENIOR CENTER.   Not-withstanding the Mayor's offer to let other groups rent the gym space.  This is a facility for seniors.  If you want to read the Ralleigh report it is here .

Screen Shot 2022-01-13 at 4.48.27 PM.png

Here is a quote from the Andover Senior Center feasibility study

"The Massachusetts Executive Office of Elder Affairs has general standards recommending that a town’s senior center be sized between 4 and 5 square feet of space per senior. "   In this report i believe they were referencing people 60 and over.   So we have  roughly 19,000 seniors 60 or over.  If you multiply 19,000 X 4 square feet you get 76,000 square feet.   Clearly we have NO plans to build a facility of that size.  If you want to read this study, the link is  here .

My point is - this senior center IS  primarily for seniors.   If you think the Administrative space is too big - you can say so  at the community meeting. Valid complaint.   I do think the administrative area also contains private areas to counsel seniors and that is a very important space.   It is in the administrative area - which make sense as  social workers would have their office there.

I hope you find this research useful.

Susan

Nancy Finn

unread,
Jan 13, 2022, 9:48:22 PM1/13/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com, Peter F. Harrington
Chapel Hill NC?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 13, 2022, at 8:33 PM, Susan Albright <susansophi...@gmail.com> wrote:


Correction - sorry working too fast.  Chapel Hill has much fewer people over 55 - only 6500 and their center is 25,000 square feet.



On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 5:13 PM Susan Albright <susansophi...@gmail.com> wrote:
I found this chart in a feasibility study done by the city of Raleigh North, Caronlina for their senior center.  This table below from the study  shows  senior centers around the state and when they were built along with the number of citizens over 55.   Newton has 24,500 people over 55.    Durham has slightly more over 55 an their center is 44,000 square feet. Chapel Hill has about the same number and their center is 25,000 with satellite facilities.  Wilmington has 18.097 and their center is 30,000 square feet.    The point i'm making is that this IS a SENIOR CENTER.   Not-withstanding the Mayor's offer to let other groups rent the gym space.  This is a facility for seniors.  If you want to read the Ralleigh report it is here .

Peter F. Harrington

unread,
Jan 14, 2022, 1:19:20 PM1/14/22
to westnewtonn...@googlegroups.com, newto...@lists.neighborhood.net
Susan,
 
Thank you.  This is interesting information.  It is raw data that we can use.  However, like many studies, it is hard to make comparisons without more information.  Looking at internet photos, most of the North Carolina Senior Centers seem to be inviting, 1 to 1½ story buildings on spacious grounds with lawn and lots of open space, with large parking lots.  It is hard to compare these buildings to a 46 foot high building that takes up most of the space on the lot, provides limited parking, and leaves a sliver of lawn.
 
The Commonwealth's recommendation that a senior center be sized between 4 and 5 square feet of space per senior is also confusing.  Is this a density recommendation to encourage cities and towns to provide more space for senior activities based upon municipal population or is it a recommendation as to the size of a senior center based upon the number of people expected to be using the center at any given time?  Also, is the recommendation based upon gross square footage or on activity space? 

I think that information on the intensity of use of the proposed facility would be helpful.  For example, if the facility is to be 30,000 gross sq ft and you divide that number by 5 sq ft per person, you have a potential occupancy of 6,000 people.  If it is based upon municipal population it would be useful to determine what parameters the Massachusetts Office of Elder Affairs used to determine who would use the facility.  Was it based upon age, income, wellness, living conditions (apartment vs home), a mixture or other factors?

The postponement of the January 20th hearing is disappointing but the news that the plans are being revised is encouraging.

Concerning adding 55 to 65 year olds to the senior identity pool is something I object to.  My children are in this age group and neither they nor I consider them seniors. 

Who are these people that want to be seniors at 60 years +/-.

Peter


Victoria Danberg

unread,
Jan 14, 2022, 3:06:12 PM1/14/22
to West Newton Neighborhood Group
Dan,

I think those were my words, not the Mayor's.

Vicki

--
If you'd like to be added to this discussion group, visit this group at the link below, or simply send email to gswi...@alum.mit.edu with your name and affiliation with West Newton.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "West Newton Community" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to westnewtonneighbo...@googlegroups.com.

Dan Proskauer

unread,
Jan 14, 2022, 3:26:13 PM1/14/22
to West Newton Community
I stand corrected.  Thank you, Vicki!  Sorry for the confusion.

Dan


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/westnewtonneighborhood/CAL4mUy-Rt44M5Tp2B70vyZPC2FJ%2BZYMKJQLLjV7YoKSLCiamRA%40mail.gmail.com.
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages