raspi4 users yet ?

[vince]

Anybody have a raspi4 yet ?   I'm curious what the time to process skins is on this one vs. a pi3b+ since the new one is reportedly much faster in general.

[Robert Lorenzini]

Be aware that the 4 draws more power and runs hotter.

Bob - wd6dod

On 6/27/2019 8:02 AM, vince wrote:

Anybody have a raspi4 yet ?   I'm curious what the time to process skins is on this one vs. a pi3b+ since the new one is reportedly much faster in general.

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[Leon Shaner]

Well, does it?

Pi's are power managed in that they draw what they need based on what they're doing.

Sure, the Pi 4 is capable of drawing more, but will it do so for the workload needs of WeeWx and related SW?

For one thing the Pi 4's new SoC is on paper 2-3x as efficient as a Pi 3, so things may either run ~2x as fast or waste fewer cycles getting the job done.

Only way to know is to run exact same OS version and software stack on two different units side-by-side, and measure how many watts they're actually pulling nominally and during peak times and actually compare the two.   YMMV.  =D

I'm holding out for the 4 GB Pi 4, which is out of stock already, where I live.

Not needed for WeeWx, but as my main development platform, while a slower Pi Zero runs the code developed and unit tested on the Pi 4.

I sure do like having a faster box so compile times are faster.  =D

And to that end, eventually there will be a 64-bit Raspbian on the official support train, in which case the additional memory will get me past some hurdles where the 2 GB virtual memory per process currently has me shutting off SW features that gcc/ gplusplus can't manage to build with only 2 GB VM.

But I digress.  ;-)

Regards,

\Leon

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Leon Shaner :: Dearborn, Michigan (iPad)

On Jun 27, 2019, at 11:05 AM, Robert Lorenzini <b...@llorenzini.com> wrote:

 Be aware that the 4 draws more power and runs hotter.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/weewx-user/76dbfbb6-ce59-87e0-8c15-2c4916000473%40llorenzini.com.

[vince]

On Thursday, June 27, 2019 at 8:25:38 AM UTC-7, Leon Shaner wrote:

Well, does it?

Pi's are power managed in that they draw what they need based on what they're doing.

Sure, the Pi 4 is capable of drawing more, but will it do so for the workload needs of WeeWx and related SW?

We've had zillions of reports of people with complicated/multiple skins and other software on the same box who overload a pi.

All the analysis reports on the pi4 say it draws more power and runs much hotter, some even advocating active cooling.   As always, reports are sometimes not worth the bits they're written on, so I was curious for real-life folks doing similar non-intensive things.  But still it looks like a pretty solid box for well under $100 end to end.

The real Gbit ethernet and usb3 enough gets me interested, once the Fliirc case (https://flirc.tv/more/raspberry-pi-4-case) is available I'll probably grab one.  Those cases are excellent on the pi3 and pi3+ and look pretty good too.

[Robert Lorenzini]

https://lifehacker.com/the-raspberry-pi-4s-most-interesting-quirks-1835871780

Bob - wd6dod

[James Muirhead]

Is a Raspberry Pi 4 not massive overkill?

I'm running the default skin on an Orange Pi Zero with 256MB of RAM. Does have a quad 1.2GHz CPU though.

-James Muirhead.

[vince]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:43:48 AM UTC-7, James Muirhead wrote:

Is a Raspberry Pi 4 not massive overkill?

Depends on how complicated your weewx setup is, and what 'other' stuff you're running on the same pi.

 

[Jack Fenimore]

I think it is overkill--but I did it anyway--so I've been running Raspbian with weewx with the Cumulus plug-in and the CPU is idle.  I don't believe heat would be an issue in this config however I am using an RTL-SDR that runs very hot so it skews things.  No case or fans presently.  My onboard temperature is 65C after running 2 days but I attribute that to the RTL-SDR.  So I have heat sinks and a fan on order to deal with that aspect. 

If you are grabbing a 4, be aware of the USB-C port: https://www.scorpia.co.uk/2019/06/28/pi4-not-working-with-some-chargers-or-why-you-need-two-cc-resistors/

Cheers.

[Greg Gowins]

I have one (2GB) on order, and will give weewx a try on it once I get it.

[Peter Fletcher]

On Tuesday, July 9, 2019 at 7:11:00 PM UTC-5, Jack Fenimore wrote:

If you are grabbing a 4, be aware of the USB-C port: https://www.scorpia.co.uk/2019/06/28/pi4-not-working-with-some-chargers-or-why-you-need-two-cc-resistors/

Not a problem if you use the recommended power supply, though these currently seem to be more back-ordered than the Pis themselves. 

[James Muirhead]

TBH, I have a load of different SBCs running various different servers around my house. So I tend to just upgrade whenever I get a new one, old pies becoming a simpler variety of server...

• Raspberry Pi rev 2 - MQTT, web, print & scanner server (going to be replaced soon),
• Raspberry Pi rev 2 - X Link Kai,
• Banana Pi M1 - TV server (4 DVB-T tuners & a hard drive),
• Orange Pi PC - Open VPN,
• Raspberry Pi B+ - DreamPi,
• Raspberry Pi 2B - Octoprint,
• Raspberry Pi 3B - Octoprint,
• Raspberry Pi 3B+ - NextCloud (to be replaced with a Banana Pi M1),
• Raspberry Pi 3B+ - RetroPie (Pi 4B won't fit in case :'( ),
• Orange Pi Zero 256MB - WeeWX with a WH1080.
• Raspberry Pi A - Kite Aerial Photography rig (will be upgraded),
• Raspberry Pi A - Portable dev kit for use with Lapdock (will probably be upgraded),
• Raspberry Pi A+ - FM transmitter server (for internet radio in shower),
• Orange PI PC (coming soon) - ZNC server.
• Etc,
• Etc.

I would love a Pi4, just not yet as I can't get RetroPie working great yet!

[kar ss]

I managed to install Weewx on a Raspberry Pi 4 (1GB) with Raspbian Buster and the installation went without any issue. The board temperature (with a heat sink on the processor) is around 50 +/- 2C on continuous running of weewx and broadcasting data to Wunderground. I don't get what you mean by time to process skins as I am not familiar with Raspbian OS and also new to Raspberry Pi. 

[Mike Harold Chan]

the side effects is much more HEAT XD

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[Jack Fenimore]

Circling back now I have been running the Pi 4 for two weeks.  With regard to hear this article has a good write up and I agree in general: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2019/raspberry-pi-4-needs-fan-heres-why-and-how-you-can-add-one

But for weather users I have found the is a more heat significant issue if you use an RTL-SDR to listen to the weather stations's RF.  I found that both the USB ports and RTL-SDR itself on the 4 become uncomfortably hot to the touch and the CPU will report about 60C or so--no enclosure.  Perhaps overly cautious, but I did not let it run unattended so maybe 6-8 hours at that measure point.

Adding heat sinks to the RTL-SDR (I had a pair of 7mm and a pair of 14mm I attached) and a fan keeps me around 50C (49-51C) with an ambient temperature of 78F.  I do not have the case yet so the fan is clamped (positioned) just inside of the usb ports so that it blows towards them (out) and over the RTL-SDR. 

Temperature has been stable; but waiting for the case makers to catch up and accommodate a touch screen.

Cheers,

Jack

On Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 11:13:48 AM UTC-4, Mike Harold Chan wrote:

the side effects is much more HEAT XD

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 1:48 PM kar ss <kar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I managed to install Weewx on a Raspberry Pi 4 (1GB) with Raspbian Buster and the installation went without any issue. The board temperature (with a heat sink on the processor) is around 50 +/- 2C on continuous running of weewx and broadcasting data to Wunderground. I don't get what you mean by time to process skins as I am not familiar with Raspbian OS and also new to Raspberry Pi. 

On Thursday, 27 June 2019 20:32:08 UTC+5:30, vince wrote:

Anybody have a raspi4 yet ?   I'm curious what the time to process skins is on this one vs. a pi3b+ since the new one is reportedly much faster in general.

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[Dj Merrill]

I've been using this case with the 3's and now a 4, along with heatsinks, and it keeps the RPi nice and cool even when running a stress test.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LXSMY1N/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

-Dj

[James Muirhead]

I've had to give up on the Orange Pi Zero with 256MB of RAM as it just clogged the RAM completely after about a month! To the point it started to use the swap :'(

Swapped to an Orange Pi PC as I had one spare and it has 1GB of RAM.... Plus, it's cheep (£16)!

[vince]

Some totally unscientific numbers - got my 4GB RAM pi4 and compared it with a pi3 - both using wifi running weewx 3.9.2 in simulator mode, and both in Flirc cases.  Weewx was in debug mode with pyephem installed via pip.   Both systems have identical newly flashed A1 SD cards.   The pi4 uses a CanaKit pi4 power adaptor, the pi3 uses an old Aukey one I had sitting around.

Temperatures:

• ambient = 21 C
• pi3 = 37 C
• pi4 = 44 C    (it ran about 6 C or more hotter outside the case)

Speed to do weewx things - initial run of Seasons report:

• pi3 = 6.58 seconds to generate 57 images, 3.62 seconds to generate 8 files
• pi4 = 3.44 seconds to generate 57 images, 1.66 seconds to generate 8 files

And the next run of the Seasons report

• pi3 = 4.45 seconds to generate 42 images, 1.26 seconds to generate 8 files
• pi4 = 2.28 seconds to generate 42 images, 0.68 seconds to generate 8 files

And the next run after that

• pi3 = 1.00 seconds to generate 14 images, 1.26 seconds to generate 8 files
• pi4 = 0.65 seconds to generate 14 images, 0.65 seconds to generate 8 files

So the pi4 is definitely faster, nominally twice as fast or so for running the Seasons skin.   Might be worth thinking about if you're a heavy user of your existing pi.

Power draw comparisons:

• pi3 = 1.6 W
• pi4 = 3.1 W   <= with great compute goes great power requirements :-)

I also tried a couple SSD disks via USB3 enclosures.  One a laptop SSD drive, one a M2 SSD drive from a NUC.  Both worked great.   Both increase the power needed by about 1.5 W according to a Kill-a-watt.

[WindnFog]

Thanks for the performance and power metrics, Vince. Precisely the kind of information for which I was looking.

I have 3.9.2 running the simulator on a 4GB Pi 4 as well.  It's sitting around 45-46 C with a little fan, and I'm using a powered USB for now to handle the keyboard and mouse, etc. I wanted to use the Flirc cases, and I'd be interested to hear if you can cut a cable slot (with a Dremel tool or the like.)  I want to use the Pi 4 with a camera to take a photo of my yard every 5 minutes, and I stared at the pictures of Flirc cases for some time. There seems to be no way to get a cable from the plug to outside the case.  I like the idea of passive cooling, hence the Flirc stands out.  Are there any hidden "braces," screw holes, etc. that might be a problem if one were to cut a small cable slot?  I currently have a Pi 3+ taking the photos, and transferring them to a standard PC running weewx under CentOS.  It's a "Rube Goldberg" software and hardware combination, and I think it'd be easy to have the Pi 4 do everything.  Simple is always better.

I have to get a second Davis logger/USB cable to test this with another console I've got so I can do a side by side comparison of my existing setup with Pi 4.  The end game is to run this all headless except for the powered USB hub.  I'll stick a USB 3.0 SSD on the hub to store my database on, as well as the photos, to reduce hammering at the SD card. I think I can do this and keep the temperature well under 50 C with a Flirc case if I can get the camera cable through it somehow.  The Pi 4 throttles around 80 C, so we shouldn't have any trouble with that.  Still, I like to keep electronics running as cool as possible, hence the USB hub idea.

Anyhow, to keep this forum "weewx software support" oriented, I can report that weewx 3.9.2 runs like a charm on a Pi 4!

- Paul VE1DX

[Peter Fletcher]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 1:41:40 PM UTC-5, WindnFog wrote:

Thanks for the performance and power metrics, Vince. Precisely the kind of information for which I was looking.

I have 3.9.2 running the simulator on a 4GB Pi 4 as well.  It's sitting around 45-46 C with a little fan, and I'm using a powered USB for now to handle the keyboard and mouse, etc. I wanted to use the Flirc cases, and I'd be interested to hear if you can cut a cable slot (with a Dremel tool or the like.)  I want to use the Pi 4 with a camera to take a photo of my yard every 5 minutes, and I stared at the pictures of Flirc cases for some time. There seems to be no way to get a cable from the plug to outside the case.  I like the idea of passive cooling, hence the Flirc stands out.  Are there any hidden "braces," screw holes, etc. that might be a problem if one were to cut a small cable slot?  I currently have a Pi 3+ taking the photos, and transferring them to a standard PC running weewx under CentOS.  It's a "Rube Goldberg" software and hardware combination, and I think it'd be easy to have the Pi 4 do everything.  Simple is always better.

There already is a slot in the bottom of the Flirc Pi 4 case which is intended for a (much wider and slightly thicker) ribbon cable from the GPIO connector, which should work fine (with reasonably careful routing of the cable) for a camera cable. A word of warning, however, if you want to use a 40-pin GPIO connector and cable, you have to use cables with special, narrow, connectors (there is a link to appropriate cables in the Flirc case FAQ); standard connectors foul the case 'pillars' and will not allow it to close.

[vince]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 11:41:40 AM UTC-7, WindnFog wrote:

 I wanted to use the Flirc cases, and I'd be interested to hear if you can cut a cable slot (with a Dremel tool or the like.) 

  Are there any hidden "braces," screw holes, etc. that might be a problem if one were to cut a small cable slot? 

I think the usual mantra is that there is little that cannot be solved with a Dremel, duct tape, and velcro :-)

I have seen mods to put power buttons etc for orderly poweroff via GPIO so lots of people have tweaked the case for their needs.

[vince]

On Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 11:41:40 AM UTC-7, WindnFog wrote:

 I want to use the Pi 4 with a camera to take a photo of my yard every 5 minutes,

oh geez a pi4 is massive overkill for that, get a zerow or an old model-B pi.  Both work great for that.