Hardware recommendations?

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

Yet again I am thinking about new Hardware. I own a WS-28xx clone, in many ways, is a great device and running flawlessly for almost 8 years now. Downside is a poor outside humidity accuracy, which made me use a homebrew SHT3x sensor to augment realistic measurements and override the stations values. No showstopper, but a limitation is the need of a hardware connections which makes running the station software (I use weewx, haha!) in a container base environment a little difficult. Also, the 30sec. interval of its loop packets is a little slow for a skin showing live date, at least for wind and gusts, but a refresh rate like that would not be a problem if the reliability is as good as the WS28xx. Out of 793680 possible archive values in the timespan since installation, I only missed 2931 so far, most of them not related to an issue with the device (like low battery etc.)

 

I tried a Weatherflow Tempest some two years ago which got me really upset in so many ways. And  an all-in-one, voodoo-magic measurements generating, not really a personal weather station, but a cloud node device-design, is an absolute no way to go. (Cloud upload is okay, quirksy, somehow adjusted values that differ from the actual hardware readings, is not)

 

So, what are my requirements?

 

Observation Types

Accurate, and even more important, reproducible measurements of:

-outside Temperature

-outside Humidity

-precipitation

-wind and wind direction

-barometer

Nice to have:

-radiation

-UV

-inside temperature

-inside humidity

 

Hardware Layout: modular, independent sensors for wind/windDir, outTemp/outHumidity, precipitation. An independent, solar powered anemometer is a must have, nice to have for the other sensors. The reason for this requirement is probably best explained when you take a brief look at the current installation: https://www.kainzbauer.net/weather/Rif/news.html Changing the batteries up there isn't something I want to do on a regular base, the little hut for the other sensors really works, compared to solutions with plastic shieldings, ventilation or even worse: algorithmic attempts to guess the real value, like the Tempest does (and fails so hard in many situations).

 

Also, a nice to have, is a hardware console.

 

A must have is also the possibility to backfill values if, for whatever reasons, weewx isn't there to collect the data, at least for two or three days, and a driver that can take care of this. If the backfill source is some cloud service or the device directly, either way is OK, as long as it works.

 

So far, I am considering three possibilities:

- Stay with the WS28xx, even buy the one or other spare and augment dissatisfying readings and other data, from other sources. It is cheap, robust, and has proven its reliability (at least to me).

- Buy a Davis Vantage Pro 2 and an extra transmitter kit for the wind and UV/radiation sensor. The rain bucket should be detachable from the humitemp (right?) How does the Davis work in terms of backfilling data?

- Buy some Ecowitt devices, the SHT35 based humitemp should do a decent job outside, and there are so many options, one should find the right stuff. And it is in a price class that makes redundancy and hoarding spare parts affordable. Does backfilling work with GW1100? If not, can you get it working with a console or in any other way?

 

What else is out there? The price tag is also worth considering, but not a showstopper, if it is worth the money. But still: one full-featured Vantage Pro 2 is an equivalent for more than 15 WS-28xx Stations…

Happy to read your suggestions!

[Greg Troxel]

"michael.k...@gmx.at" <michael.k...@gmx.at> writes:

> A must have is also the possibility to backfill values if, for whatever
> reasons, weewx isn't there to collect the data, at least for two or three
> days, and a driver that can take care of this. If the backfill source is
> some cloud service or the device directly, either way is OK, as long as it
> works.

I think your requirement probably also includes backfill over times that
the internet didn't work either.

> - Buy a Davis Vantage Pro 2 and an extra transmitter kit for the wind and
> UV/radiation sensor. The rain bucket should be detachable from the humitemp
> (right?) How does the Davis work in terms of backfilling data?

On mine, the rain, humidity/temp, and UV/radiation are lal on one unit.
There is a cable for anemometer, but I haven't tried to remotre it.

The backfill works great with weewx, in my case with the serial
datalogger. I think it's the same with USB. There are newer
dataloggers that seem more TCP/IP and more cloudy and I really don't
understand but I fear that Davis is straying from the enlightened path.

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

> I think your requirement probably also includes backfill over times that
> the internet didn't work either.

Yes. In general: a weather station that can autonomously collect data, with an easy-to-use capability to get this data into the weewx database at any other time. In whatever way. Preferable directly from the device into the database, but it is also OK, if the station's memory can't be accessed locally, but is synchronized with the cloud service when the connection is available again and one can backfill the data from the cloud API.

[vince]

There is a very long 'what station should I buy' forum on wxforum.net if you want to poke around there.

But to answer, perhaps start with a few easy questions in order of importance.

Budget:

• what is your max budget ?

Site considerations:

• is a one-device setup (ex: Vantage Vue) ok with you ?
• or do you want an anemometer at 10m and T+H sensors at 2m for optimum readings  (ex: VP2)

Display:

• do you need an integrated console ?  Color/modern layout ?
• or are you willing to do it yourself (ex: display to a Kindle Fire etc.)

Ability to run standalone:

• is it ok if the gateway requires Internet connectivity (ex: Ecowitt gateway's watchdog timers) ?

UV/Solar/Radiation/AQI sensors

• how important is it ?  Those can get pretty pricey

Inside T+H

• again - nice to have, or need to have ?

If you can live with the gateway needing Internet connectivity, you can get a pretty nice Ecowitt setup with color console for under $350 or so.  Less if you build your own dashboard setup and display to a Kindle or iPad if you have those around.

If you need true LAN-only, I'd go Vantage Vue and live with the cost for the logger and the Vue not being expandable.

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

Thank you for the wxforum link. I've already answered every single question in the very first post, without any offense: if you read it and then post a reply, I would very much appreciate it!

[Tom Hogland]

Opinions based on my Davis VP2 and Tempest, installed in Alaska. :-)

The Tempest measurements are very close to the VP2 ones. Yes, they do weather prediction and can do some corrections, but my weewx instance isn't reading those - it's reading the raw observations over the LAN. I *believe* I disabled the cloud-based guesstimates in my account, but I could be wrong. Has everything except an indoor console for indoor readings, and my setup (Tempest and external power option) was under $400. Like all "sniff the LAN for data" setups, there's no local backfill for missed data.

You're kind of closer to describing a Vantage Pro 2 Plus and the solar anemometer transmitter. The VP2 has consolidated outdoor sensors for temp/humidity/rain/UV/solar/pressure and a cabled anemometer, plus a console with indoor temp/humidity. (The rain gauge is NOT removable.) I also use a Wireless Envoy and Weatherlink to directly read data, rather than the newer Weatherlink Live. For me, the $1400-ish price for those parts doesn't fit into "affordable", but mine has been online continuously since 2007. The Envoy/Weatherlink combination can store quite a bit of data - several days worth I believe - so if your weewx is offline it will read and backfill when it restarts. Davis also offers extra sensors, including a separate rain gauge I believe - that's more cost, but you *could* ignore the attached rain gauge and connect a separate one.

The VP2/Envoy depends on weewx for data uploads elsewhere, so as long as it's on it works. The Tempest uploads to it's own gateway device, and I sniff the traffic and update a second weewx instance. Not *quite* as robust but so far no lost data.

Both offer options for external power connections on the sensors. Davis uses a CR-123 battery and solar - without AC I get one solid year between battery changes, and the battery is in the main sensor unit so easily accessible. (Anemometer is powered from the main unit.) Tempest uses solar and a built-in battery - I get to about mid-January and the solar panels can't keep the unit charged enough to run more than a couple hours per day. The add-on external power option (essentially adds PoE) works great and will power the sensor for multiple days on 8 AA batteries if needed, and with AC power indefinitely of course.

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

Thank you Tom, I didn't mention that I purchased 2 Tempests of which 3 (yes, three of two, because the replacements sent by weatherflow were also defective) were defective with distinct issues within less than half a year. So, no, not again. 

For the Vantage Pro: for me it seems that more recent versions have detachable rain buckets and one could locate the humitemp inside a "sensor hut" and the rain bucket on top of the hut with a cabled connection to the solar powered, battery backed transmitter. A second, solar powered battery backed transmitter could be mounted on the mast on the roof top with the cabled anemometer and uv/radiation sensors attached to it. I would even tune this transmitter box with a solar powered LTO battery (lithium titanat) instead of the CR123, in theory, this would run "forever", a LTO can stand 10k+ cycles and still has 50% of it's rated capacity and discharge capabilities down to -20°C (That's one of the good things in the Tempest, they use an LTO also, but 1300mA is too small for locations near the arctic circle obviously)

Anyway, it is nearly impossible to get your hands on a recent VP2, at least, where I live. So any input of a user with a more recent revision would be very interesting.

[vince]

On Tuesday, February 28, 2023 at 12:27:35 PM UTC-8 michael.k...@gmx.at wrote:

Thank you for the wxforum link. I've already answered every single question in the very first post, without any offense: if you read it and then post a reply, I would very much appreciate it!

Hmmm - perhaps I got lost in all the words, but I didn't see them answered.  LAN-only required ?  Max budget ?

The Ecowitt page to look at is https://www.ecowitt.com/shop/goodsPage/1/43 to get an idea of what they offer.   Their web also has a variety of components that you can assemble piece-by-piece if so inclined, but it looked to me that a bundled station is a little cheaper if you can find one that fits your needs.

The HP2552 system seems to be worth evaluating at least.  Perhaps.

 

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

LAN only: No. LAN option: nice, because it makes virtualization much easier.

Budget: if the "full options" VP2 meets the requirements and is worth the money, I'd go for it.

What driver is used for weewx and the HP2552, can you plug an usb into the raspberry and is it backfill capable? Whats the main difference to the HP3500 https://shop.ecowitt.com/products/hp3501?variant=41418883825826

The HP2552 doesn't seem to be available in the shop, is it discontinued?. Do I need the gw1100 for weewx or is it just an option?

[Jeff A. D.]

The VP2 comes with a 40 foot anemometer cable, and can be extended.  Davis sells 100' cords that can be joined to the 40'.  (I'm not sure if it's just standard straight through phone wiring or what, I think it's discussed somewhere on the wxforum.net Vince referenced).  There's just this caveat (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0515/5992/3873/files/7876_spec_4Con_Rev_D.pdf): 

"Maximum wind speed reading
decreases as the length of the
cable increases. At 140' (43 m)
maximum speed is 175 mph (78 m/
s). At 340' (104 m), maximum
speed is 70 mph (31 m/s). The
accuracy of the reading below the
maximum is not affected."

Therefore you wouldn't need to worry about batteries at that height, you should be good until the bearings go bad, which hopefully would be many years.

I believe Tom is correct, the rain gauge is not made to be detached, though maybe you could figure out a way to do it, and even if you could I don't know how elegant it would be.

However I've read (on wxforum again) that some have hooked up a stand alone Rainwise rain gauge to their VP which they claim is more accurate, so I guess how far away you want it from the ISS depends on how long your cable can be.

A good part of the year here I cover the gauge and measure moisture from a manual gauge and have to add it manually to the WeeWX database anyway.  However inaccurate the gauge may be to begin with, I think it would even be worse trying to measure snow with or without a gauge heater.

[Tom Hogland]

I think I may have failed in my description :-)

The only detachable part of a VP2's rain gauge is the black funnel - the tipping spoons, etc. are part of the base unit - you'd have to saw it apart to separate it. The UV/solar sensors are on a tray above and behind the rain funnel, but plug into the main sensor array. The CR-123 is backup power for the main sensor suite, so if you get a repeater it's powered separately - solar, CR-123 and apparently it also has a AC input (the main sensor suite takes AC power - that's my power source). The repeater can feed the anemometer, uv/solar, and a rain gauge, plus temp or temp/humidity so that's helpful. The VP2+ has a solar/battery-fed fan drawing air through the temp/humidity sensors so having it "outside" isn't a big issue.

Sorry to hear about your Tempest issues - I've heard a few stories of early units having issues, but more recent units seem to be reliable.

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

Thank Jeff, and Tom again. The reason why separate, solar powered anemometer is a must have, is that I live in an area with high Lightning activity:  https://images.app.goo.gl/QTDeAPa8Hukh49Pr5 I don't want to have anything else destroyed and definitely don't want a cable else than a lightning rod up there. Statistically, I get a direct hit every 30 years here. Several neighboring Houses were hit directly in the past 15 years since I live here.

So, the Davis is probably not the best option for me: the price, combined with all the modifications I have to make to have it fit my idea how things should be, seem not to fit together very well.

[vince]

Just picking from Ecowitt's site...

• $195.99 for a HP3501 (link) 'weather station kit' containing console, indoor T+H, outdoor T+H, rain, solar wind/uv/sun

• Uncertain if you'd also need a $29.99 GW1100 gateway or not (has T+H+barometer)

Uncertain how good the wind/rain/uv/sun sensors are nor how they'd hold up in the environment your picture showed.  The T+H sensors are very good in my experience.  Gary's weewx driver is excellent.

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

I got this link (in german) https://www.wetterstationsforum.info/wiki/doku.php?id=wiki:wetterstationen:ecowitt-stationen#ecowitt_hp2551_hp2560

It's an exhaustive description of the listed Ecowitt sensors.

The HP3501 kit doesn't need the gateway, it's a WiFi console. The set comes with a T+H+Barometer WH32 Indoor sensor, so not extra gateway is needed (except for some live data features in their app in your LAN)

Which one is "Gary's driver"? The gw1000 driver? Or a special HP3500 Driver that can read Data from USB? The HP3500 is the (only?) station that allows data transfer using USB, for all the others one needs to remove the SD card. If there is a driver that could handle backfilling weewx database from the HP3500 from USB, just like with my WS28xx, I would go for this kit, although it's console display is very small. 

Since you can use multiple consoles this is not a big deal, just get another one and enjoy a bigger display and hardware redundancy.

[vince]

I was referring to weewx-ecowitt (link) but I don't know if Ecowitt supports backfill or not.  I don't need an archive here for my Ecowitt gear, just current readings.

Ecowitt has too many components for me to keep track of, but I'm sure the Ecowitt forum on wxforum.net (link) has somebody who knows for certain regarding compatibility of consoles vs. sensors.

Cheapest hardware setup is to buy the sensors you want and the $30 gateway to integrate them so weewx can pick up all the readings from the gateway, then display Belchertown (or any other skin) to a $40 Kindle Fire 7 or bigger display.  Once you get the data into weewx displaying it is the easy part.

[michael.k...@gmx.at]

Thanks for all the inputs. I'll go with some Ecowitt parts. They meet my requirements best, at least on paper. I'll se how I get along with them.