Cloud services (wunderground etc.) worthwhile?

[PJO]

For as long as I've been running a weather station (4+ years) I've uploaded data to online weather services: first to Wunderground in return for an ad-free app, later to Weathercloud in return for notifications of outages. A few things have made me reconsider if I should continue and I'd be interested in the views of others.

First, as background, I'm reading The Age of Surveillance Capitalism by Shoshana Zuboff. It's about the monetisation of data about humans, rather than the environment, which, as the ultimate public good is arguably a special case for us to disregard any costs. Then I happened to notice today that Weatherflow is proposing to pay a dividend to owners of Weatherflow stations in future, presumably based on a share of profits, a bit like a credit union ($20 or so per annum, profits permitting). Naturally, it raises the question of the value of what many already give away to Wunderground, WeatherCloud etc. It's not that the amount of money matters but ... it appears that large sets of meteorological data that are potentially important for climate research are, at least potentially, being walled off into privately controlled fiefdoms for the purposes of rent extraction--even as the climate is going to hell in a handbasket. This is not something I want to support, merely for the vanity of having a pin in a digital map, or the convenience of an add-free experience when using an app (which I almost never use in any case).

I'm about to buy a new weather station. The two shortlisted vendors, Ambient and Ecowitt, each run their own cloud services with associated maps showing their own contributors. Even if they were doing this for free it's mildly annoying to realize that the few weather stations in my area are scattered across different services and that some are inaccessible without buying hardware or paying a fee. Of course, I understand that services cost money to provide, but the fact is that the service providers are harvesting data provided to them at no cost -- indeed people are paying for the privilege of giving it away -- and then reselling it. To what extent, if any, do we have a moral obligation to upload weather data regardless of any such considerations? Are some services more deserving of support than others?

I presume everyone knows about the scandal of Accuweather reselling location information harvested from users of an app without their consent. Actions like this will now incur heavy sanctions in the EU.

Aside from the ethical questions, I've also realized

1. I rarely use either Wunderground of WeatherCloud

2. New stations increasingly just upload straight to the cloud

3. Wunderground, at least (and probably others), don't permit correction of erroneous data

4. Weathercloud wants to be paid to allow you to download your own data if it's more than a year old

5. Weathercloud accepts realtime data only

6. Wunderground accepts historical data, but several days worth was discarded for no obvious reason recently when I got my WH1080 back online after a rasperry pi outage (it was uploaded)

which made me wonder again why I bothered. (And if that wasn't enough, I discovered the hard way that WeeWX configured to use the Simulator will upload fake data to services like Wunderground if they're still enabled. Fortunately I noticed immediately and stopped it continuing. Annoying even if Wunderground don't care much for data quality.)

A related wrinkle: The market leading vendor in terms of product quality and service, Davis, has, notoriously, attempted a form of digital protectionism by erecting a toll gate for people to access their own data. FineOffset, the market leader in terms of sales volume is the manufacturer of Ambient branded hardware sold in the US. Whereas FineOffsett equipment is largely compatible across a variety of other brands (Ecowitt, Froggit etc.), and Ecowitt's online service is available to all, not just to customers, Ambient restricts its online service to customers (using hardware MAC addresses).

While there are interesting underlying geopolitical considerations here, I'm a pragmatist. I'm committed first and foremost to managing my own data locally whatever happens. However, I can't help wondering if it's time to stop uploading to Wunderground and Weathercloud because it isn't really worthwhile for me, and I'm somewhat skeptical of the public utility. (And if I wasn't already, the dire acting of the concerned citizens anxious about climate change and wanting to help by buying a new Weatherflow weather station in Weatherflow's latest Kickstarter campaign video, would trigger some doubt.)

Anyone else a bit disillusioned? Pulled the plug? Views? Sorry for the long message and thanks for any reflections.

[vince]

FWIW, I'm not concerned.   You don't "have to" provide your data to anybody else, and you can always "vote with your wallet" concerning which vendors you do/don't buy from.   There are a variety of companies I choose to not do business with, for a variety of reasons that matter to me.   Many people take the same approach.

In the weather station arena, such choices perhaps limit some of your options for which stations you can afford to purchase.  That's all part of figuring out what makes sense for you.  Everybody is different.

[Xant]

Can debate much, but I'm not concerned to provide PWS info to many WX Cloud Services. And if they make a profit, which is biz and must sustain the service, it might be in any small print suggesting that you are uploading "per your free will and choice", making your data publicly available and open for anyone's use.

"Disillusion?"

Some disappointment on the downhill of Wunder after transition.

On the other side, signed-up for Weathercloud some ago and very glad to have Weathercloud feedback when WeeWX stop uploading for some reason (alert saved me a few times already).

Confused about "The two shortlisted vendors, Ambient and Ecowitt, each run their own cloud services with associated maps showing their own contributors", as I may assume that most OEMs provide their own cloud services. Weatherflow (which has my vote) also shows their global map location of contributors.

[Xant]

(addendum)

Wunder Now "formerly" a website of PWS enthusiasts, like here at WeeWX. After been sold-out to a "regular" business, expectations that the new ownership could acknowledged that and continue original premisses. 

Wishable thinking, but not in reality. Wunder seems that not had a single development ever since, and the site now address to regular "city weather" instead of the more local (and original) PWS. 

PWS data can still be reached, but at the mercy of someone will (and knowledge) to "get there". 

Remember the last year webcam shutdown announcement and the return due to WX community protest?!

Well, now even besides any announcement, webcam on Wunder seems down (partially, temporarily or not). 

[Xant]

Wunder continue spinning downhill, and now it takes about 3 pages to (finally) get to PWS website. This as a device owner, dont even know how it works for "general public"...

The "webcam" (aka, "wunder cam") no longer functional for months - some posting says "after website latest update", where "older links" were still working.

The truth is, the "PWS grandaddy" start to fade, but other options - more PWS related, started to show-up (WeatherCloud, for example).

But interesting enough, as everything moving to Cloud and been AWS based, the WeeWX community and "private hosting" continue to grow, thanks to WeeWX Developers and the continue adoption of Rpi.

Now "Wundering" how long till pulling the plug on Wunder....

X

[p q]

I figure on switching to something else after I upgrade to 4.0. I'm using NWS for forecasts and it's ok, but not nearly as granular as WU used to be.

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Peter Quinn
(415)794-2264

[Xant]

Peter

Upgrade to 4.0 of what? Which PWS you end-up buying?

Anyway, Belchertown skin with DarkSky forecast its clean and in theme with the skin (NWS, although great service, seems outdated).

There are many other widgets that can be embeded into Bskin as well, but I created another page and plot from DarkSky API and HighCharts for forecast, as the following: 

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/weewx-user/DN4y76v_J4Y/xZNt0ZINAgAJ

[p q]

I have an Acurite 5 in 1. I'm running weewx 3.5.0 and I am planning on upgrading to weewx 4.0 when it's available. I have a fairly heavily customized skin based on the original skin - I added Steelseries Gauges, a map of recent earthquakes, a Windy i-frame, stuff like that.

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Peter Quinn
(415)794-2264

[Xant]

I finally did it... not total WU unplug, but "half-unplug". As I also serving data to other services, I just disabled "rapid fire" to WU, saving resources as to deal with other stuff.

X

[Andrew Milner]

i have never seen the justification for rapidfire wrt 'standard' weather readings - nothing changes fast enough in a meaningful manner to justify the computing overheads imho.

[vince]

On Wednesday, December 4, 2019 at 9:11:15 AM UTC-8, Andrew Milner wrote:

i have never seen the justification for rapidfire wrt 'standard' weather readings - nothing changes fast enough in a meaningful manner to justify the computing overheads imho.

Wind gust is the only thing I've ever thought of that made any sense.

(example - enable Belchertown and websockets, it is kinda interesting)

[Xant]

Agree! 

In parallel to wind gust... wind direction. Sure, always "cool" to see that your website and PWS are "alived". And now, to be true to the original posting "is still worthwhile"?

I might had said "yes", when WU and rapidfire had their time, and it was interesting to see it live... but WU evolved downhill, and now may say "no" (with great disappointment).

On the other side, glad that WeeWX and personal PWS still moving strong, and say "yes" to Belchertown skin and MQTT.

Bottom line, and for those not hosting own WX, yes for WX + rapidfire. But for most of us WeeWX, while still uploading to WU, save resources and no longer rapidfire.

X