Re: [vtnordicskating] Digest for vtnordicskating@googlegroups.com - 2 updates in 1 topic

[Vince Rossano]

Hiking up to (and back down from) Lakes of the Clouds to skate would have to be classed as a stunt rather than a serious skating experience. As long as participants were aware of that, were in excellent shape, and found the challenge appealing - well, sure, go for it. But those of us who have hiked up the ski trail to Sterling Pond to skate need to keep in mind that that is a walk in the park compared to the climb to Lakes.

If it’s cold enough to freeze the lakes, it’s cold enough to be dangerous trying to scramble over icy rocks up there above timberline.  And what could start out as a sunny, calm day could quickly change to thick fog and high winds. (I once got caught in a white-out snow squall in Edmund’s Col on a Columbus Day hike years ago.) In other words, you’d need to prepare for an expedition rather than a lark on the lake. 

Most days, there is the option of taking the cog railway to the summit and hiking down to the lakes, but it still involves some descending and climbing back up. And I think it costs around $50. 

It’s a crazy idea. I would have jumped at the chance - 50 years ago. 

Vince

On Wed, Sep 7, 2022 at 1:41 AM <vtnordi...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

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• Early season ice - 2 Updates

Early season ice

Matt Steinberg <fios...@gmail.com>: Sep 06 01:22PM -0400 Greetings Everyone.   I don't know about you but now that we have made it past Labor Day and this dreadful heat may have finally broken, I am ready for ice. Being somewhat impatient as well as an avid hiker, I am planning on attempting to get some early season ice up at higher elevations this fall. I am researching some high altitude ponds and lakes and will start planning some hikes in late October, cold temps willing of course. The idea will be to catch some skateable ice before the snow comes. My first target will be Lake of the Clouds on Mt Washington. It would be novelty skating as it is small but it is also above 5000 feet and could be frozen before Halloween. Other possibilities in Nov could be Kinsman Pond at 3700 feet and Lonesome Lake at 2700 feet. Both are bigger (maybe Occom Pond size) and would offer real skating. Sterling Pond in VT at 3000 feet might be a possibility as well. All of these would require at least a moderate hike and in the case of LOTC and Kinsman, a pretty significant outing. If anyone may be interested in joining me on these endeavors, reach out and we can start to plan. Of course a warm or unusually snow early fall could dictate otherwise but I am hoping for the best. I have attached a recent pic from LOTC. Small but spectacular and well worth the effort I think.   Matt

diana hanks <cle...@yahoo.com>: Sep 06 01:54PM -0400 I really don’t enjoy hiking, as a mater of fact I find every step to be quite unpleasant. However, I have hiked up and skated Sterling Pond. Several of us did it the day before Thanksgiving, a few years back, and that was worth it. If Smugger’s is making snow, but not opened yet , skinning up and skiing down after skating makes it extremely worth it. I would join you on Sterling. But I walk uphill slower than the speed of a snail. Once on the ice, that slow-pokiness is entirely gone. Then the need for speed awakens in me.   I am sure Lake In The Clouds will be frozen before Halloween. Just last week at the end of our heat wave, they hit 32 already. But that hike would take me all damned day, and there would be no time to skate, then it would get dark and I would be in a heap of trouble.   Do you have a drysuit? When on early season ice, especially so far away from the warm car, a drysuit is highly recommended.   Diana   Sent from my iPhone

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[Matt Steinberg]

Hi Vince,

I appreciate your input and agree 100%. This would not be for everyone. I am an experienced mountaineer with lots of winter climbing under my belt. As the genesis of this crazy idea, I would certainly make sure that everyone knew what they were getting into and properly equipped. I am the kind of person who backs up their backups. As far as the idea of it being a skating outing, I certainly do not see it as just that. For me it is about the experience, the journey, and and all the intangibles that go into a great adventure. 

Matt

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[Sandra Owens]

Matt

Do you have a list of gear/clothing/essentials you would recommend for this adventure?

Thank you 

Sandra Owens

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On Sep 7, 2022, at 10:47 AM, Matt Steinberg <fios...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Matt Steinberg]

Excellent question. As the time draws nearer and we see if mother nature is going to cooperate, more concrete plans and gear can be discussed. I will make several recons as well and would ideally have an idea of conditions within a day or two of any trips. 

As to Vince's point, if it is cold enough to have skateable ice on the lakes then the trails are likely to be icy. Most importantly would be good, sturdy hiking boots with good tread and a pair of microspikes that fit them. Traction would be essential. Any trails in the Whites, especially to higher elevations are very rocky and those rocks will most likely be icy with some snow patches. A lot of snow would mean easier hiking but also less likelihood of skating since the lake may be snow covered. Trekking poles would be highly recommended as well. As far as clothing goes, we can determine more in real time but one should always be prepared for the worst at higher elevations. A headlamp would be a good idea as well.

Lastly I think would just be a determination of fitness and comfort level in relation to the proposed trip. LOTC is a serious hike that climbs about 2500 vertical feet over a few miles and is very rough and steep. Lonesome Lake is much shorter and while rocky, is less steep. I am not familiar with Sterling Pond yet, but will be heading over in the next few weeks  I can give detailed descriptions of the hike and trail conditions, we can look at the weather report and then each person will need to assess their skills, fitness, and risk/effort versus reward. I hope this helps. Let's keep our fingers crossed for a cold and dry Fall 

Matt

[Kevin Boyle]

I’ve done a little early season adventure skating but nothing this adventurous. One gear aspect that is a little tricky is boot / skate type. The boots we use for our longer adventures are typically poor for hiking. If possible you’d want to avoid carrying a separate set of skate boots. In the past I used a three pin set up which were really good for bicycle approaches and ski / skate adventures. Even with a vibram sole I doubt you’d want to hike in three pin boots though.  I’ve contemplated getting a pair of multi skates which could strap to leather hiking boots. Skate performance would be low but probably good enough for small mountain ponds. 

One mistake I’ve made numerous times is not bringing all my gear when scouting. Occasionally you happen to hit it at just the right time and can’t take advantage. 

Kevin Boyle

Linear Art Studio

518-593-6633

On Sep 8, 2022, at 10:09 PM, Matt Steinberg <fios...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Matt Steinberg]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for your response. Excellent points on all fronts. I just wear my leather boots and carry the skate boots in a pack. They are light and I am used to carrying a pack full of ropes, crampons, etc. so the weight doesn't bother me. I know this is not typical for most people though. You could not hike those trails in skate boots however so the strap-on skates or carrying them may be the best options. As for your other point in regards to scouting,  a similar experience is what at least tangentially inspired this idea. During a traverse of the Presidential Ridge in early March last winter, I encountered some of the most beautiful ice I had seen that season up there. I had thought about taking my boots and blades but figured the lake would be snow covered. The shore areas had drifts but a hockey rink sized area in the middle was completely blown clean and did not have a blemish on it. The weather was perfect and it certainly would have been a beautiful and unique experience. Not the best picture for scale or size but you can see how nice the ice was.

Matt

[diana hanks]

Matt, the hike up to Sterling Pond is up an alpine ski trail, parts of it are intermediate, and there may be some easy, single black Diamond in there. No double Diamond stuff, so easy hiking in comparison to those others. If I am willing to hike it, it has to be on the easy side. As I said before, I hate hiking.
I hike the Smuggler’s Notch trails, not the Stowe trails. It’s shorter from the Smuggler’s trails. 

Diana

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On Sep 9, 2022, at 10:26 AM, Kevin Boyle <southern...@gmail.com> wrote:



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