Re: Otter holes

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Kevin Boyle

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Dec 29, 2021, 9:56:50 PM12/29/21
to Phil Brown, Jerry Jenkins, Daniel Spada, ADKNordicSkating, VTNordicskating

I am going to take a shot at a possible explanation. I think the photo is a drain hole created the last time it rained. The nights since have been marginally cold so it has remained open. Even with a small amount of snow weighting the ice subsequently slushing happens through the opening as Jerry outlined. 

Link to Bob Dill’s description of drain holes: http://lakeice.squarespace.com/drain-holes/

Kevin Boyle
Linear Art Studio

On Dec 29, 2021, at 8:09 PM, 'Phil Brown' via ADKNordicSkating <adknordi...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Jerry, thanks for the reply. I am attaching a photo per Elizabeth’s request. — Phil


<otter hole.jpg>

Phil Brown
Lost Pond Press
50 Cliff Road, Unit 4 
Saranac Lake, NY
adke...@icloud.com
518-354-3218





On Dec 29, 2021, at 8:00 PM, Jerry Jenkins <jerrycre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Phil and all,

I know only a little about otter holes, but more about slush and water over ice. Which can occur fairly far north, and in very cold weather, and complicates snowshoe and toboggan travel greatly. It comes up from below through cracks, animal holes, ice-fishing holes, and sometimes the holes we make with an ice chisel to get water. Less often it floods over the ice from openings along the shore. In thaws, it comes from melted snow above the ice.

I think the commonest cause is the ice bending down under snow load. This is a balance between the amount of snow on the surface and the thickness of the ice—thicker ice flexes less, and has more buoyancy. Whether the water flooding over the ice freezes or not depends on the thickness of the snow above it. More snow, and more chance of liquid water under it.

I have also seen more complex scenarios: lake levels falling because of reduced inflow, resulting in depressions in the ice, which then flood, under the snow cover, when the inflow or snow load  increase. In snowshoe travel you become alter to depressions in the ice, and stay out of them. It is amazing, and cautionary, how often you encounter liquid water or slush between snow and ice.

Happy winter all.

J.

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Dr Jo

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Dec 29, 2021, 10:04:40 PM12/29/21
to ADKNordicSkating, VTNordicskating
I agree with Kevin about this likely being a drain hole.  I am attaching a photo which I understand to show otter activity.  This is an unusually long opening compared to others I've seen, often they are just a couple of feet long, and often there are several in a line with closed ice in between them, showing the otter went in and out of the water. This is from Dead Creek on December 24th.

Jo


20211224_125302.jpg

Tom Duca

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Dec 29, 2021, 10:07:10 PM12/29/21
to Kevin Boyle, ADKNordicSkating, Daniel Spada, Jerry Jenkins, Phil Brown, VTNordicskating
I think kevin is right about the drain holes.  
They could  be quite common with the weather conditions we have been having.
Their frequency also indicates that the ice in and around those areas may not be as strong as the 5” might lead a skier or skater to think. Be cautious. 
Tom duca

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Dr Jo

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Dec 30, 2021, 2:27:07 PM12/30/21
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What a great photo!  Would so love to see them frolicking in and out of the ice!  I saw their waterside den, too, along with their "latrine" near it, once on Grafton Pond (NH).  (Have photos, backchannel if anyone interested.) 

Also the "slides" they leave in snow are delightful, would be so fun to see in person. 

Otters sliding in Yellowstone:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN1zcU-xHrI

Jo


From: adknordi...@googlegroups.com <adknordi...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of lawrenc...@gmail.com <lawrenc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2021 1:51 PM
To: 'ADKNordicSkating' <adknordi...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: FW: Otter holes
 

The actual otter holes I’ve seen were round or oval and made by otters in the early winter and early spring when the ice was thin.  See attached image (March 18, Mill Pond in Lake Placid).  I’ve spent hour photographing otters (family groups) at their holes and have always been amazed what efficient fishers they are.  I think such fishing prowess gives them ample time to play.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Larry

 

Larry Master

www.masterimages.org

518-645-1545

 

From: 'Phil Brown' via ADKNordicSkating <adknordi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2021 8:33 AM
To: Kevin Boyle <southern...@gmail.com>
Cc: Jerry Jenkins <jerrycre...@gmail.com>; Daniel Spada <spada...@gmail.com>; ADKNordicSkating <adknordi...@googlegroups.com>; VTNordicskating <vtnordi...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Otter holes

 

Thanks for all the replies. I only guessed that the holes were made by otters. I was searching for an explanation. On Middle Pond, the previous day, we did see otter tracks and slides near one of the holes. Based on the replies and a bit of googling, I’d guess that most of the holes we saw on the Seven Carries were drain holes. I have skied these ponds many times and had never seen these holes before, so I was perplexed. Did they form because of the strange winter we’re having (mild, with intermittent thaws)? 

 

For what it’s worth, we didn’t notice any holes on Upper St. Regis Lake or tiny Bog Pond. We saw three or four holes on Bear Pond, several on Little Long Pond, a few on Green Pond, and none on St. Regis Pond. When necessary, we skied in the snowy patches between the gray areas surrounding the holes. Sometimes we broke through the snow into slush. The ice beneath the slush seemed solid. 

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