[Discussion] GitHub as the canonical source or not

[Sukima]

Recently there has been a percolating trend to be concerned over GitHub. Specifically the

Give up GitHub plea.

Since Vim is a FOSS project I was curious what the community thought about this.

1. Pros/Cons?
2. Is the Vim License worded well enough to weather any CoPilot bubble?
3. Do the tools compare to other contribution models?
4. How do other FOSS projects approach the monolithic use of GH?
   
5. Other praises or concerns?

To quote the famous “Coffee Talk” SNL skit… “talk amongst yourselves.”

[Christian Brabandt]

On So, 28 Jan 2024, Sukima wrote:

> Recently there has been a percolating trend to be concerned over GitHub. Specifically the
> Give up GitHub plea.

Hm, I might be missing something, but what is the Github plea?

> Since Vim is a FOSS project I was curious what the community thought about this.
>

> 1. Pros/Cons?

I don't plan on moving away from Github in particular since this is the
first time I hear some doubts. I like it's UI, but I don't think we are
so too much in a walled garden. The homepage is separate, we are not
relying on the release feature. However I would miss the issue tracker
and the CI integration. In fact, I think Github has served us quite
well, but if we would need to find a new home, it should be possible
with some work.

> 2. Is the Vim License worded well enough to weather any CoPilot bubble?

Please expand, why it wouldn't.

> 3. Do the tools compare to other contribution models?

What tools?

> 4. How do other FOSS projects approach the monolithic use of GH?

GH is only part of the Vim project, we are not relying too much on GH
for development of Vim. I have no idea about other FOSS projects.

> 5. Other praises or concerns?

>
> To quote the famous “Coffee Talk” SNL skit… “talk amongst yourselves.”

Thanks,
Christian
--
We are all so much together and yet we are all dying of loneliness.
-- A. Schweitzer

[Eike Rathke]

Hi Christian,

On Sunday, 2024-01-28 21:26:58 +0100, Christian Brabandt wrote:

> On So, 28 Jan 2024, Sukima wrote:
> > Recently there has been a percolating trend to be concerned over GitHub. Specifically the
> > Give up GitHub plea.
>
> Hm, I might be missing something, but what is the Github plea?

Sukima linked to it: https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/

Of 2022 already, but things will probably get only worse over time.

I suggest to take a look at Codeberg, https://codeberg.org/

Eike

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[meine]

On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 07:25:03AM -0800, Sukima wrote:
> Recently there has been a percolating trend to be concerned over GitHub.
> Specifically the

> Give up GitHub <https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/> plea.

>
> Since Vim is a FOSS project I was curious what the community thought about
> this.
>

> 1. Pros/Cons?

Noce to see this discussion on GitHub, but IMHO a bit late. Far Too
Late.

GitHub is owned by Microsoft, they bought the platform several years
ago. Technically GH might be practical for developers, but the owner
can be a problem. In several ways.

Microsoft says to `<3` Linux, but anyone who remembers their quite
agressive proprietary way can smell the threat for the freedom of your
code.

What when they pull the plug? By cutting the cables or --more realistic
in this part of the software world-- ask growing fees for using, up- and
downloading code.

What does Microsoft with all the code? In the past they nicked parts to
implement and sell. Maybe part of some GPL or BSD license accepts that,
but it feels somewhat strange. Sooner or later people pay for
proprietary software based on FOSS code. That ain't fair.

Trust is good, trust in a (former) opponent is brave. But don't be naiv.

The other thing about GitHub and all the alternatives is that a parallel
universe of software sources and repositories seems to grow. This brings
practical (where can I find it) and security concerns (who can change
code, fork it with nasty features, present it as a decent fork). The
latter is a very big risk for computer and software safety. I expect the
formal repositories in Linuxes and *BSD do security checks on the code.
In de Microsoft-realm we all know the spreading of virusus and malware
made possible by this cowboy way of software distribution.

My thoughts on the plea. Find a common, secure and independent place for
it!

KR

//meine

[Romain Lafourcade]

On Sunday, January 28, 2024 at 11:42:57 PM UTC+1 Eike Rathke wrote:

Hi Christian,

On Sunday, 2024-01-28 21:26:58 +0100, Christian Brabandt wrote:

> On So, 28 Jan 2024, Sukima wrote:
> > Recently there has been a percolating trend to be concerned over GitHub. Specifically the
> > Give up GitHub plea.
>
> Hm, I might be missing something, but what is the Github plea?

Sukima linked to it: https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/

Of 2022 already, but things will probably get only worse over time.

I suggest to take a look at Codeberg, https://codeberg.org/

You should come up with a list of _actual_ ways using GitHub _actually_ harms the Vim project if you want to be taken seriously.

[Eike Rathke]

Hi,

On Monday, 2024-01-29 00:49:50 -0800, Romain Lafourcade wrote:

> You should come up with a list of _actual_ ways using GitHub _actually_
> harms the Vim project if you want to be taken seriously.

No, I should not, and I don't have to do anything to suit your beliefs
or prove I'm worthy to be taken seriously by you.

Good bye