Hi Joachim,
On Mon, Sep 7, 2020 at 3:43 AM Joachim Tuchel <
jtu...@objektfabrik.de> wrote:
> HI Esteban,
> emari... schrieb am Sonntag, 6. September 2020 um 00:30:37 UTC+2:
>>
>> Hi Joachim,
>>
>> Do you know if this issue also happens in Pharo?
> tbh, no. These models are quite some work to port to Pharo or VW. I only know that teh problems I mentioned ring a bell with Cincom developers who remember it was fixed a while ago.
Having a reproducible case for this, a basic DescriptorSystem only
with the classes/tables involved would be required in order to assert
this.
>> I'm not an extensive user of subselects (except for certain EXISTS kind of conditions),
> well, that's exactly where I have problems: some subselectes, especially EXISTS create table prefixex like s1t2 for tables that are not referenced in the statement ( no ... table x as t2... in the select any where).
>> but maybe that is easy to cherry pick and apply in VAST.
> Sorry, but I think this is the worst possible scenario, and it has nothing to do with Pharo. I would produce my own little fork of Glorp on VAST (well, unfortunately, I already have one), which is neither the Cincom nor the Phaor version. If I fixed a bug and wanted to get it promoted upstream, who would I send it to? Instantiations? The Pharo community? Cincom?
I know this is sub-optimal, but if your current needs requires fixing
that, then I see no other option in the current situation.
I also found something I think it is a bug in the current Pharo
version, and I'm using a patched version of Glorp until I find time to
write a proper test and be sure it doesn't break anything else.
> Let's look at some options:
<snip>
> Making a long story short: something is broken in the way Glrop progresses on various platforms. I am not even sure who to blame for it. Is it Cincom's obligation to take care of non-Cincom platforms? Should Instantiations be more active and work closer with Cincom? Would Cincom be interested and helpful in this? I really don't know. Would an official "Glorp project" work in which developers from all platforms work together and exchange code and fixes? Some kind of consortium? Who could initiate that and would have the resources to run such a project for years?
The maintenance of Glorp from a community perspective is broken, at
least if you compare it with Seaside that is probably the top most
cross-platform framework available for Smalltalk.
It has been discussed here and in the Discord channel that a
"canonical" version must be established, and that fixes should flow
upstream to it. I don't think Cincom is going to play along with that,
because they already have the canonical version, but they code and
development process is isolated from the community.
Even in Pharo there is the pharo-rdbms/glorp repository, but Pavel
seems to have a more recent port [1] that for some reason doesn't want
to merge into the main Pharo port.
So it is the Balkans all over again [2], maybe not as serious as in
the past, because we now have sharing tools (Githut, Tonel, .etc). But
we're still not there.
So we need a Champion that can:
1. Update the existing Pharo port to the latest changes in VW
2. Make Pharo the canonical implementation
3. Helps in the migration to other dialects.
3.1 VAST mostly
3.2 VW if they want to accept #2.
4. Takes care of applying fixes/enhancements done in other dialects
5. Return to step 3.
Not a trivial task, but it is something that I'd been wanting to get
straight since I did the Pharo port in 2016, at that point I even
thought about renaming it, in anticipation of #3.2 not taking place,
but then I understood that GLORP is a heritage name, just like Seaside
is.
At this point there are technical (merging, etc.), political
(commercial) and economical (resources) things preventing this to
happen.
> I have the feeling that whatever I do to solve my problem will lead to my personal fork of Glorp. I'd like to avoid that.
In the short term I don't see any other option given the small
community of GLORP users.
Unless there are more GLORP users that we're not aware of to make it
worth it economically, other than for the sake of personal glory :-)
Best regards,
[1]
https://github.com/pavel-krivanek/glorp/tree/8.3.1-23-baseline
[2]
https://web.archive.org/web/20130228051641/http://www.threeriversinstitute.org:80/blog/?p=466
Esteban A. Maringolo