VAST Web Services and Seaside

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Sanjay Minni

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Dec 1, 2019, 7:00:40 AM12/1/19
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I was just going thru the VAST documentation and was trying to understand VAST Web services in relation to Seaside

(I have worked on an application developed with Seaside on Pharo)

Is VAST Web Services something similar / overlapping to Seaside or do they have different purposes.

Thanks
Sanjay


Mariano Martinez Peck

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Dec 1, 2019, 3:22:43 PM12/1/19
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Greetings Sanjay,

VAST Web Services are a completely different set of tools than Seaside. The former is specific to web services (WSDL, SOAP, etc..) while the latter is about Web Development. The only small point in common I see is that somehow both provide a way to provide a service over the "wire". This is because within Seaside, there is a small part which allows you to provide REST services via HTTP (which you can answer JSON or whatever)... So... from that regard, providing a REST service vs Web Service is somehow related/similar.

Have a nice weekend,

Best, 

--
Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.

Sanjay Minni

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Dec 1, 2019, 8:27:49 PM12/1/19
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Thanks Mariano,

Let me put it this way

which products / libraries should i look at to develop a hosted / web based business application using VAST ?
- Seaside 
- any others
I was trying to find some examples in the VAST 9.2 docs

regards
Sanjay

On Monday, 2 December 2019 01:52:43 UTC+5:30, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote:

Mariano Martinez Peck

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Dec 2, 2019, 10:34:34 AM12/2/19
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On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 10:27 PM Sanjay Minni <sanjay...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Mariano,

Let me put it this way

which products / libraries should i look at to develop a hosted / web based business application using VAST ?
- Seaside 
- any others
I was trying to find some examples in the VAST 9.2 docs



Hi Sanjay,

Yes, I would say Seaside is a good first start. You can combine it with Twitter Bootstrap which is in http://vastgoodies.com/

One comment is that all the #call: and #answer: philosophy of Seaside seems already outdated to today's standards. One of the reasons is that such behavior uses full page requests, which everybody tries to avoid now. So...at the very least, you would want to make your application with AJAX everywhere. 

But... if you are starting from scratch, I would use other 3er parties tools build on top of Seaside for that purpose, such a Willow (which even runs on VAST): https://github.com/ba-st/Willow

Finally, there are some examples of Seaside in the docs but those are mostly about how to package VAST to make really small runtime images for production. As for Seaside itself, you have many books around in their website. 

Best, 

Sanjay Minni

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Dec 8, 2019, 12:49:41 AM12/8/19
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Hi Mariano,

how do I get Willow to install and run in VAST
    thanks
---
  •   Sanjay Minni


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Sanjay Minni

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Jul 21, 2021, 1:08:18 PM7/21/21
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Hi Mariano

1. how do I fetch willow or clone any repository from github and load it in VAST 10.0.0.2
2. fot vastgoodies is the usual way to download the .dat, import all its contents and then load 

regards

Mariano Martinez Peck

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Jul 22, 2021, 9:08:32 AM7/22/21
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Hi Sanjay
 
1. how do I fetch willow or clone any repository from github and load it in VAST 10.0.0.2


So far, VAST does not provide a git wrapper from within the image dev tools. That means you have to do the git clone, pull, commit,  etc  externally, not from VAST. We do have plans to slowly integrate this into VAST but we are not yet there. 
Once you have cloned the repo, then you can just use Tonel to load the code into VAST. The whole documentation is here: https://github.com/instantiations/tonel-vast/ 

As to Willow, or any other project for that matter, you can't expect it would just work on any Tonel-supported dialect. Tonel is just a file format... if the project (Willow or whatever) was not coded with portability in mind, chances are it won't work out of the box on all dialects because there are differences between them. 

 
2. fot vastgoodies is the usual way to download the .dat, import all its contents and then load 


Yes. 

 

regards

On Monday, 2 December, 2019 at 9:04:34 pm UTC+5:30 maria...@instantiations.com wrote:
On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 10:27 PM Sanjay Minni <sanjay...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Mariano,

Let me put it this way

which products / libraries should i look at to develop a hosted / web based business application using VAST ?
- Seaside 
- any others
I was trying to find some examples in the VAST 9.2 docs



Hi Sanjay,

Yes, I would say Seaside is a good first start. You can combine it with Twitter Bootstrap which is in http://vastgoodies.com/

One comment is that all the #call: and #answer: philosophy of Seaside seems already outdated to today's standards. One of the reasons is that such behavior uses full page requests, which everybody tries to avoid now. So...at the very least, you would want to make your application with AJAX everywhere. 

But... if you are starting from scratch, I would use other 3er parties tools build on top of Seaside for that purpose, such a Willow (which even runs on VAST): https://github.com/ba-st/Willow

Finally, there are some examples of Seaside in the docs but those are mostly about how to package VAST to make really small runtime images for production. As for Seaside itself, you have many books around in their website. 

Best, 

--
Mariano Martinez Peck
Software Engineer, Instantiations Inc.

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vcost...@gmail.com

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Jul 25, 2021, 1:42:09 PM7/25/21
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After reading the thread, to clarify, web services can be broken down into two categories, SOAP WS and REST. They each work differently with SOAP being more heavy handed and REST being lightweight, usually using JSON to package data. So, if you wanted to get today's weather from a weather service and display it on your webpage, then you'd probably want to use REST. OTOH, if you worked at a bank, transferring money via a WS, where security is a concern, then you might use SOAP. Actually, there used to be many SOAP vs REST arguments amongst various groups, with each group claiming, 'My way is better than yours.'

The VAST documentation on SOAP has out of date elements, such as mentioning xmethods and I have no clue how REST capable ST is.

Mariano Martinez Peck

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Jul 25, 2021, 6:32:18 PM7/25/21
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Hi,


On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 2:42 PM vcost...@gmail.com <vcost...@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading the thread, to clarify, web services can be broken down into two categories, SOAP WS and REST. They each work differently with SOAP being more heavy handed and REST being lightweight, usually using JSON to package data. So, if you wanted to get today's weather from a weather service and display it on your webpage, then you'd probably want to use REST. OTOH, if you worked at a bank, transferring money via a WS, where security is a concern, then you might use SOAP. Actually, there used to be many SOAP vs REST arguments amongst various groups, with each group claiming, 'My way is better than yours.'



Completely agree with that. 

 
The VAST documentation on SOAP has out of date elements, such as mentioning xmethods and I have no clue how REST capable ST is.



If you have an active support license, feel free to send an email with the details about the xmethods to vast-s...@instantiations.com and we would be happy to take a look. 

Regarding REST, we have many customers using Seaside-REST successfully. 

Best, 

Mariano 
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