More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2

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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jun 30, 2023, 9:22:57 AM6/30/23
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A copy of the Holy Quran was burned outside a mosque in Sweden on Wednesday during the  Eid al-Adha celebration 


Saudi Arabia condemns extremist who burnt Quran outside Stockholm mosque during Eid


Holy Wrath 👍


image.png


Turkeye’s President Erdogan reacts to the burning of a Quran outside a mosque in Sweden :


"“We will eventually teach the arrogant Westerners that insulting Muslims is not freedom of thought; We will show our reaction in the strongest possible terms, until a determined victory against terrorist organizations and Islamophobia is achieved, Those who commit this crime as well as those who allow it under the guise of freedom of opinion, those who tolerate this despicable act will not be able to achieve their ambitions”




Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jun 30, 2023, 7:58:51 PM6/30/23
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If it were my own holy book being burnt I would not care

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Jun 30, 2023, 9:16:00 PM6/30/23
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i'm like toyin adepoju in thinking the value of the book doesn't really lie in its material properties. and i wouldn't let the haters bait me.
on the other hand, there's lots of burning i would really mind a lot.
i recently read of the various statues and scrolls etc destroyed by the various goons during the iraq war—priceless heritage of all human kind. and the taliban destruction of the buddhist statues.
if it were a 8th century qur'an, i'd be upset; if it were an early christian relic, i'd be upset.
etc etc
the nazis burned everything jewish they could get their hands on, or sold them. i don't like that.

toyin is right: we don't want to go to war over idolatry of this or that manuscript; but we do want to give value to humanity in our veneration of objects we treasure....like, for instance, the benin bronzes, or ifa heads or yoruba masks etc. when the missionaries burned them they were the same as the foolish iraqi man in sweden who delighted in desecration of the qur'an.
i'm with anthony appiah on this: the relics of each of us are relics for all of us.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2
 

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 1, 2023, 9:32:27 AM7/1/23
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Well said by Ken

But those Muslims who are disturbed may need to realize that the Koran burners  are likely to be  responding to extremist, inhuman veneration of religion is Islam, in which violent Muslims take human life in defense of their religion.

By the time Muslims refuse to indirectly fuel those provocations by their reactions people are likely to lose interest in Koran burning.

Why are people not going out of their way to burn the Bible?

Thanks

Toyin



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Toyin Falola

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Jul 1, 2023, 9:35:23 AM7/1/23
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I plead that this trend stops. The use of the generic “muslim” is  moving in the direction of hate speech.

 

Harrow, Kenneth

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Jul 1, 2023, 9:49:08 AM7/1/23
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Christians are oppressed in various places where they are minorities. Here in the states there is a significant rise in antisemitic attacks. In europe muslims are often targeted.

The rightwing conservative types need their scapegoats in order to justify their own group identity and worth.
A sad commentary on humanity everywhere.
(An example in china is the ouygars; in russia, you name it. And look at the armenians and azerbaijans, azeris in iran etc etc
Ken
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 5:54:12 AM

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 1, 2023, 11:34:29 AM7/1/23
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https://www.unaoc.org/2023/06/press-statement-on-the-burning-of-the-quran-in-stockholm-sweden/

June 29, 2023Filed Under:Featured,Press Statements

Press Statement
Attributable to the Spokesperson of
the High Representative for the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations (UNAOC)
On the burning of the Quran in Stockholm, Sweden

New York, 29 June 2023

The High Representative for the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations (UNAOC), Mr. Miguel Moratinos expresses his unequivocal condemnation of the burning of pages of the holy Quran on Wednesday in front of a mosque in the center of Stockholm, Sweden.

He notes that such a vile act is disrespectful to Muslims who are celebrating the holy occasion of Eid Al-Adha.

The High Representative reiterates the importance of upholding the freedom of expression as a fundamental human right. At the same time, he stresses that the desecration of sacred books and places of worship as well as religious symbols is unacceptable and can lead to incitement of violence.

The High Representative further reiterates that mutual respect is essential for building and promoting just, inclusive and peaceful societies rooted in human rights and dignity for all.

In this context, the High Representative recalls the United Nations Plan of Action to Safeguard Religious Sites led by the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations, which provides an overarching framework and a set of recommendations including strengthening religious pluralism and promoting mutual respect and human dignity.

For any queries contact : Ms. Nihal Saad, The United Nations Alliance of Civilizations
sa...@un.org | www.unaoc.org | Twitter: @UNAOC

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 1, 2023, 11:34:29 AM7/1/23
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Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju !


Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju who is decidedly neither a solipsist nor a supreme egotist is at it again. 


This time he says, “If it were my own holy book being burnt I would not care”.


That’s what he’d say to Muhammadu Buhari? Boko Haram? Miyetti Allah? The Sharif of Mecca? 


Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju would like us to get embroiled in some endless high falutin, hair-splitting philosophical tittle-tattle with questions such as “What is the name of your holy book, Sir ? Do you have a holy book? What do you mean by “holy”? Perhaps give a thumbs up for the iconoclastic footnote to howl and so on, and so on, ad infinitum, but he would care, he would indeed care very much if it was his own gnash or his beloved booty,  if it was Deborah Samuel or if it was his own holy or not so holy ass that was being burned in Stockholm or fried alive at Auschwitz during the Holocaust. 


Birds of the same feather flock together. In this matter Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju is in good company with his comrade-in-arms, Kenneth Harrow, and another 21st-century superhuman humanist and rationalist, the author of this atrocious piece, Koran-burning in Stockholm.No doubt, he also views himself as being humane here, on this planet, at least from the point of view of saving instead of wasting lives…


BTW, the use of “ if” as a conditional preface to whatever wishful thinking that usually follows, is usually the mother of all hypocrisy. In your case, you may erroneously believe that you are being sincere, for all I care. You may even  believe yourself to be virtuous, just as Touchstone the clown put it, so sarcastically in Shakespeare's ”As You Like It” :


“ O sir, we quarrel in print, by the book, as you have books for good manners. I will name you the degrees. The first, the Retort Courteous; the second, the Quip Modest; the third, the Reply Churlish; the fourth, the Reproof Valiant; the fifth, the Countercheck Quarrelsome; the sixth, the Lie with Circumstance; the seventh, the Lie Direct. All these you may avoid but the Lie Direct; and you may avoid that, too, with an ‘if’. I knew when seven justices could not take up a quarrel, but when the parties were met themselves, one of them thought of an ‘if’, as ‘If you said so, then I said so’, and they shook hands and swore at their brothers. Your ‘if’ is the only peacemaker; much virtue in ‘if’.”


Whether you are Muslim or not, here’s the bottom line and please take note: UN statement on Quran burning in Sweden :


“ Burning the Quran or any other Holy Book is offensive, and disrespectful, and a clear act of provocation. Manifestations of racism, xenophobia, and related intolerance have no place in Europe. It is even more deplorable that such an act was carried out on the important Muslim celebration of Eid al Adha”

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 1, 2023, 1:54:03 PM7/1/23
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Shalom

After Mao and the Communists took over in China, at the age of thirty-five ( 35) my late best friend and erstwhile mentor  Mikhail Tunkel  - very Jewish, of Lithuanian ancestry - a disciple of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, a great admirer of the Chinese people, a friend of Ehud Olmert’s father, etc, moved from Harbin, China, where he was born and bred, moved to Israel In 1953 -and to Sweden circa 1988. Back in his dear Israel, one day, when curiosity got the better of him, he entered Al-Aqsa Mosque, so he tells me, and with increasing excitement, as he was making his way to the minbar which he imagined was the mosque’s holy of holies, he espied the Quran and was about to take hold of the book when a loud voice - which he thought was coming from Heaven, shattered the silence with these words:


” Only the pure shall touch it! ”


He says that his heart almost stopped and he almost fell down with fright, he thought it was the voice of the archangel Gabriel, but it turned out it was only one of the custodians of the mosque shouting from the balcony that he should not touch the Holy Quran, that he must be in a state of wudu - (ritual purity) to touch the Holy Quran …


I Have only one question in response to all that you have said in this thread: Does Hillel’s dictum not apply to Quran burning? 


Hillel the Elder: “That which Is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow! That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary”

Harrow, Kenneth

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Jul 1, 2023, 2:29:08 PM7/1/23
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dear cornelius, toyin,
i don't want to offend other people. if i disagree with them, i still will respect them, as long as their own beliefs and actions are not offensive to me or others.
so, no qur'an burning. ok. why not? we actually are taught to bury any papers marked with hebrew religious content, rather than to put it in the garbage or recycling, like copies of texts you might be working on and which contain sacred texts. in the past such manuscripts or scrolls would be buried in a geniza, and amidav ghosh wrote a beautiful novel on just the materials and stories that emerged from one such egyptian geniza after hundreds of years had gone by and an anthropologist student came upon them. It was called, In an Antique Land (1992).
the genizas were actually ancient trash bins. what irony, sacred trash becomes archival material of inestimable worth.

We don't have to agree on what is sacred and what is haram, what is to be revered and what disrespected, as long as we can be tolerant of each other.
in spain the best jamon in the world is to be found; in brooklyn it might be considered treif or harmful garbage. but don't spit on my food, don't burn my sacred texts, i won't burn yours.
when the taliban destroyed the giant buddhist statues in afghanistan, even after the buddhists were all gone, whose statues were they destroying? yours and mine. ours, all of ours.
i claim them for us; i claim the benin bronzes for us; i claim the original declaration of independence for us; i claim the magna carta for us; i claim the dead sea scrolls and the codex sinaitucus for us.
so toyin is right, in a sense. we do not want to treat the buddhas or qur'ans or bibles or statues as holy idols which belong to just one people, and whose harm is felt by its owners. we are all harmed by the violence and disrespect, not because the idol is sacred, but because we are holy ourselves.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 12:05 PM
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 1, 2023, 6:10:06 PM7/1/23
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So beautiful

Cornelius-
Shalom

After Mao and the Communists took over in China, at the age of thirty-five ( 35) my late best friend and erstwhile mentor  Mikhail Tunkel  - very Jewish, of Lithuanian ancestry - a disciple of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, a great admirer of the Chinese people, a friend of Ehud Olmert’s father, etc, moved from Harbin, China, where he was born and bred, moved to Israel In 1953 -and to Sweden circa 1988. Back in his dear Israel, one day, when curiosity got the better of him, he entered Al-Aqsa Mosque, so he tells me, and with increasing excitement, as he was making his way to the minbar which he imagined was the mosque’s holy of holies, he espied the Quran and was about to take hold of the book when a loud voice - which he thought was coming from Heaven, shattered the silence with these words:


” Only the pure shall touch it! ”


He says that his heart almost stopped and he almost fell down with fright, he thought it was the voice of the archangel Gabriel, but it turned out it was only one of the custodians of the mosque shouting from the balcony that he should not touch the Holy Quran, that he must be in a state of wudu - (ritual purity) to touch the Holy Quran …


I Have only one question in response to all that you have said in this thread: Does Hillel’s dictum not apply to Quran burning? 


Hillel the Elder: “That which Is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow! That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary”

Ken-

dear Cornelius, toyin,
i don't want to offend other people. if i disagree with them, i still will respect them, as long as their own beliefs and actions are not offensive to me or others.
so, no qur'an burning. ok. why not? we actually are taught to bury any papers marked with hebrew religious content, rather than to put it in the garbage or recycling, like copies of texts you might be working on and which contain sacred texts. in the past such manuscripts or scrolls would be buried in a geniza, and amidav ghosh wrote a beautiful novel on just the materials and stories that emerged from one such egyptian geniza after hundreds of years had gone by and an anthropologist student came upon them. It was called, In an Antique Land (1992).
the genizas were actually ancient trash bins. what irony, sacred trash becomes archival material of inestimable worth.

We don't have to agree on what is sacred and what is haram, what is to be revered and what disrespected, as long as we can be tolerant of each other.
in spain the best jamon in the world is to be found; in brooklyn it might be considered treif or harmful garbage. but don't spit on my food, don't burn my sacred texts, i won't burn yours.
when the taliban destroyed the giant buddhist statues in afghanistan, even after the buddhists were all gone, whose statues were they destroying? yours and mine. ours, all of ours.
i claim them for us; i claim the benin bronzes for us; i claim the original declaration of independence for us; i claim the magna carta for us; i claim the dead sea scrolls and the codex sinaitucus for us.
so toyin is right, in a sense. we do not want to treat the buddhas or qur'ans or bibles or statues as holy idols which belong to just one people, and whose harm is felt by its owners. we are all harmed by the violence and disrespect, not because the idol is sacred, but because we are holy ourselves.
ken


On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 at 21:12, Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com> wrote:
i dont think i used the generic term Muslim in a manner that suggests hate speech

i wrote

 '' those Muslims who are disturbed''
 and 
''By the time Muslims refuse to indirectly fuel those provocations by their reactions''

a no of Muslims are disturbed by anti-Islam expressions.

some have reacted non-violently while others have reacted violently 

im stating that both groups may do well to realize that their responses motivates those efforts to antagonize Muslims

why are such spectacular efforts not being made to antagonize Christians

why are Bibles not being burnt 

bcs Christians dont care

why dont they care

bcs of the relative sophistication of their attitudes to the Bible, of their textual theologies, of their Biblical  hermeneutics as well as of the transformations Christianity has undergone, seismic changes of a scope Islam has not undergone 

comparative hermeneutics of sacred texts is a very rich topic, made more so by the tensions between Muslims and those who approach Koran burning as a means of attacking Muslims

a topic ripe for discussion but who is open to such discussions

some might be too sensitive to even discuss various approaches to Koranic hermeneutics 

its vital to realize there are different kinds of Islam 

the Islam of ''we shall not discuss views different from ours'' is only one kind

the Islam of ''we shall kill you if you disagree with us or if you disrespect our religion'' is only one kind even though the loudest

thanks
toyin



Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 1, 2023, 6:29:24 PM7/1/23
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My Holy Books

1. The sections on Iya Lekuleja in Toyin Falola's A Mouth Sweeter than Salt and Counting the Tiger's Teeth

2. Toyin Falola's essay '''Ritual Archives''

3. My ongoing essay on the image of Iya Lekuleja

4. The acknowledgements pages of Nimi Wariboko's books and some of his Whatsapp communications 

5. My essays on Nimi Wariboko

6. Akinwumi Ogundiran's The Yoruba A New History

7. My writings on Ogundiran's book

8. Various writings of Wole Soyinka's

9. Everything written by Susanne Wenger

10. My writings on Wenger

11. A good no of the works of Immanuel Kant

12. My own writing on Kant

13. More not incuded here, including works of fiction

14. The Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabarata, ese ifa and other traditionally understood holy books

Why Are Those Texts Holy to Me?

They are inspired and they inspire me

No one should burn my own copies bcs they are precious to me 

I would not want any copes to be burnt so people are not deprived of them

but i would wonder why anyone would bother burning copies of them

is the person trying to make a statement of some sort?

i would like to dialogue with the person to understand what they are trying to say

but i would not be offended, disturbed or challged by such burning

you cant burn ideas 

unless the person is not trying to send a signal of hatred as in the Nazi burning of Jewish books i would not be bothered

i would be  interested though in the persons motives 

thanks
toyin

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 1, 2023, 6:29:33 PM7/1/23
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apologies

in the post below i meant to write 

IN Islam

not

IS Islam

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 1, 2023, 6:29:50 PM7/1/23
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i dont think i used the generic term Muslim in a manner that suggests hate speech

i wrote

 '' those Muslims who are disturbed''
 and 
''By the time Muslims refuse to indirectly fuel those provocations by their reactions''

a no of Muslims are disturbed by anti-Islam expressions.

some have reacted non-violently while others have reacted violently 

im stating that both groups may do well to realize that their responses motivates those efforts to antagonize Muslims

why are such spectacular efforts not being made to antagonize Christians

why are Bibles not being burnt 

bcs Christians dont care

why dont they care

bcs of the relative sophistication of their attitudes to the Bible, of their textual theologies, of their Biblical  hermeneutics as well as of the transformations Christianity has undergone, seismic changes of a scope Islam has not undergone 

comparative hermeneutics of sacred texts is a very rich topic, made more so by the tensions between Muslims and those who approach Koran burning as a means of attacking Muslims

a topic ripe for discussion but who is open to such discussions

some might be too sensitive to even discuss various approaches to Koranic hermeneutics 

its vital to realize there are different kinds of Islam 

the Islam of ''we shall not discuss views different from ours'' is only one kind

the Islam of ''we shall kill you if you disagree with us or if you disrespect our religion'' is only one kind even though the loudest

thanks
toyin



On Sat, 1 Jul 2023 at 14:35, Toyin Falola <toyin...@austin.utexas.edu> wrote:

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 2, 2023, 3:09:17 PM7/2/23
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Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju;

Wonders never cease! 


Getting to know you better. 


Needless to add, I’m terribly impressed.


So these are your “Holy Books”? Your own inspired cogitations, those of Ojogbon Falola, Wariboko, Ogundiran, Soyinka, Susanne Wenger, and Kant, all on the same pedestal. 


No Irele? For good measure perhaps your brilliant Kperogi? Spinoza? What about Luzzatto?


I would have thought that we would have found your top thirteen among these Sacred Texts 


For your entertainment: Ricky Gervais and Richard Dawkins in Conversation


“It's easy to see without looking too far that not much is really sacred” (Robert Allen Zimmerman) 


#  Ricky Gervais and Richard Dawkins in Conversation

Harrow, Kenneth

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Jul 2, 2023, 3:09:17 PM7/2/23
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Toyin, when you say christians don’t care (about bible burning), the point is that you are saying they are not as backward and bigoted or violent as the muslims. Is that what you are implying? If so, you know we are all hearing the same anti-muslim rhetoric, that results in violence periodically, as the anti-christian or fanatic statements you deplore
Maybe you need to stand in the middle of paris now, or boston yesterday, or in sweden the day before, to monitor that anti-muslim rhetoric that is so pervasive. It was a major part of getting trump elected, along with his anti-mexican anti-immigrant rhetoric.
Ever since 9/11, anti-muslim hatred has been a real factor in our country; and ever since the immigration into europe, it is a very real impetus to the right wing in europe.
Ken
Sent: Saturday, July 1, 2023 4:12:07 PM
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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 2, 2023, 6:08:32 PM7/2/23
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Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,


Why didn’t you include Moshe Chaim Luzzatto?


4U2 Smile: 


I’m not an idol worshipper and I’m telling you the Gospel truth: If you had included Kperogi (About 1 020 000 results (0,41 seconds) I would have forgiven you, easily, since it would have confirmed something about your taste,  not for literate literary criticism per se, but for big grammar characteristics, spinx  jingoism, and higher political hermeneutics extravaganza


Now,  let it be said: I’m not going to forgive you because you did not include Abiola Irele, speak less of the only book I've read about your area, written by J. Omosade Awolalu who in my estimation deserves a place in your pantheon.


If I have offended you, please forgive me. 


I’ve been wondering why you limit your Holy books to 14 categories.


BTW,  in 1989, my Pir, Sultanhussein Tabandeh who was then the Qutb and leader of The Gonabadi Dervishes requested that I should read Al Quran Al Kareem fourteen (14) times;I suppose in honour of The Fourteen Infallibles,  alaihim salaam.


With all the nonsense rabble Islamophobic talk about “Militant Islam”, and “Moderate Islam” I would recommend that for a proper orientation, you visit this website https://www.al-islam.org/

and prepare yourself for the advent of Imam Mahdi -alaihi salaam

‘







On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 00:29:24 UTC+2 Oluwatoyin Adepoju wrote:

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 2, 2023, 9:07:18 PM7/2/23
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Thanks Ken.

As I stated categorically and giving my reasons, I understand dominant Christian attitudes to the Bible to be more mature than dominant Muslim attitudes to the Koran.

That is a critical summation from a perspective within comparative religion, not an anti-Muslim perspective.

One should be able to critically assess an ideology without necessarily being seen as against that ideology.

I stated that the reason for this greater maturity can be traced to superior textual hermeneutics, greater influence of critical approaches to religion on the Christian populace and seismic social changes in the European and North American headwaters of Christianity, transforming the landscape of belief and thought, changes beyond those encountered by Islam.

I know almost nothing about Koranic hermeneutics and little about Biblical hermeneutics though I have a general exposure to varieties of it.

I'm of the view though that dominant Muslim attitudes to the Koran are high in devotion but low in sophistication, an inadequacy I think is likely to be due to the influence of inadequately developed textual hermeneutics or the influence of inadequately developed textual conceptions.

If you believe your holy book is of divine origin and the divine as transcendent of the world why all the angst over people trying to desecrate something beyond desecration or destroy something that is not even material in essence?

I appreciate ideas of the reification or concretization of the divine and hence veneration of sacred texts  but is that divine essence animating those texts not grounded in a reality beyond it's material expression?

Is the readiness of violent Muslims to take human life in defense of the Koran or of Muhammad not in itself a form of idolatory, a veneration of form over substance, of expression over essence, of matter over spirit?

As for the anti-Muslim stances in the West, they are evil but I am sorry to have to ask what Muslims are doing about those Muslims giving their religion a bad name.

We need to have serious discussions of the challenges faced by Islam.

It is the religion that has the most negative points in today's world.

Which other religions continue to sustain anti-blasphemy laws?

In which other religion is killing people in the name of one's religion recurrent in different parts of the world?

In which religion is so called blasphemy not only punishable and by death after a trial but cases recur of extra judicial killing for perceived blasphemy?

In which other religion do we have a recurrence of terrorist groups and in different parts of the world and displaying such amazing disregard of human life?

That is not the Islam of Ibn Arabi who described his heart as a sanctuary for all faiths.

It is not the Islam of Al Ghazali, who visualized discourse in terms of an in between space where diverse perspectives converge.

It is not the Islam of the debate between the Al Ghazali of The Incoherence of the Philosophers and Ibn Rushd's response The Incoherence of the Incoherence.

It is certainly not the Islam of Rumi.

We need to fight against the notion spearheaded by a particular form of Islam that the religion is necessarily defined by intolerance, inhumanity and refusal to engage in critical discourse.

Thanks

Toyin




Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 2, 2023, 9:07:42 PM7/2/23
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Thanks Cornelius.

That list of my holy books is not organized in order indicating value but simply indicating what's occupying my attention right now.

A text becomes holy for me when it deals powerfully with uplifting ideas, ideas relating to the ultimate significance of existence.

There are lines from Soyinka and the Encyclopedia Britannica I repeat to myself every day. These are holy for me.

I was also trying to suggest my view that conventionally understood sacred texts are great but not unique in their qualities.

A good part of their veneration comes from social consensus.

Falola's Iya Lekuleja is my own African  version of Milarepa, Jesus and other masters of  self transcending spirituality, integrating various conceptions of African nature spirituality and medicine.

Thanks

Toyin 


Harrow, Kenneth

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Jul 2, 2023, 9:50:26 PM7/2/23
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You wrote a lot toyin, and i want to take my time to respond. But if you livedhere, i think pretty strongly you would see the implication of your question about what the muslims here have done to merit the opprobrium is misplaced. I want to make this short, so i will say it is a case of blaming the victim for their punishment.
9/11 was a great shock to this country, and if you recall it followed a good deal of american attacks on various muslim entities in the middle east. But the people in the planes, in 9/11, were not american muslims, not supported by american muslims. It was saudis. The kid who bombed the boston marathon was another foreigner. You’d have a very hard time finding muslims to blame for attacks in this country, but an easier time finding americans largely from the rightwing fringe who have blown up buildings with children or shot children in schools or committed atrocities. And you’d have no trouble finding americans who supported invading iraq and afghanistan and then who tortured, created guantanamo, etc etc.
There is no end to this “war on terrorism” that was unleashed, largely by bush, and then all american presidents since, including obama.
Sorry, the muslims in this country have lived peacefully and decently, but are blamed by the far right for everything.
It is a sad state of affairs.
That’s my short answer! Something took hold of my fingers and made them tap it out. Couldn’t help it.
Ken
Sent: Sunday, July 2, 2023 8:01:44 PM

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Thanks Ken.

I'm not suggesting Muslims in the US or even Muslims generally are to be blamed for Islamophobia.

The issue is not so simple.

I'm simply asking what have Muslims generally done to distance themselves from those Muslims giving their faith a bad name?

People need education on different kinds of Islam.

How sensitive are Muslims generally to the need to educate the public about the more humane aspects of their faith?

Why has the narrative been surrendered to Muslim extremists?

Why are they the one defining Islam for the world?

I think some of the answers are ambivalence, identification, confusion, helplessness  as experienced by different Muslims.

Its true that Muslims in the US are generally not in the hue of terrorists while the US is rich with non-Muslim mass killers.

In terms of perception, however, the cohesive ideology represented by a world wide religion in which various forms of extremism are active, from average citizens, to states to terrorist groups, would inspire a more focused target of attention than the less cohesive, non-global  and at times loner cultures of mass killers in the US.

That is not meant to be a statement of value but simply a description of social reality as I understand it.

thanks

toyin



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Harrow, Kenneth

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hi toyin, we have christian fundamentalists who have so exacerbated theissue of abortion that their fanatical followers have shot and killed doctors, attacked abortion centers

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

Sent: Monday, July 3, 2023 3:48 AM
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Salimonu Kadiri

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Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju graciously posted his 'Holy Books' of which he would not like anyone to burn any copy. Should anyone burn any of his 'Holy Books' he would just dialogue with his 'Holy Books' arsonist in order to know his/her reasons for the arson. If Mr. Adepoju's hypothetical 'Holy Book' arsonist should get police permission and protection to burn a copy of any of his 'Holy Books' within the vicinity of his residence, I doubt if Mr. Adepoju, under such mental and psychological torture, would have time to think of dialoguing with the arsonist. If reasons behind Quran arsonist in Stockholm is important to Mr. Adepoju, the editorial written in the Swedish Dagens Nyheter by Jesper Ahlin Marceta on Tuesday, 4 July 2023, stated, "According to the man responsible for the latest arson on Quran, he said the purpose was to protest against Sharia laws, since they constitute a threat against democracy." Previous information about the Quran Arsonist disclosed that he was an Iraqi Christian granted political asylum in Sweden.

If Islamic Sharia Law is undemocratic, how much democratic is the Christian Mosaic Law? For Biblical instances - stoning to death adulterers and disobedient children, Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Deut. 22:22, Mathew 15:4, Mark 7:10; Killing Sabbath violators, Exodus 35:2; human sacrifice, Exodus 22:29-30, Ezekiel 20:26; Trial by ordeal, Numbers 5:14-22; Killing non-virgin brides, Deut. 22:20; and marriage by rape, Deut. 22:28-29. It is indisputable that Bible and Quran originated from the same place in the Middle East and the two religious books contain the same prophets or persons with Hebrew and Arabic names in the respective religion.

On Wednesday, June 28, 2023, while Muslims gathered at a Mosque in Stockholm to celebrate Eid al-Adha an arsonist under the protection of police intruded into the perimeter of the Mosque to vandalise and burn a copy of the Quran. The Quran arsonist had been granted permit to perform his act just within the perimeter of the Mosque which equalled to aiding and abetting him to instigate and incite Mosque attendants into violence. If it was just a case of right to freedom of expression and to demonstrate, why should the arson of a copy of Quran take place in front of the Mosque and not in any of the public squares in Stockholm, or in front of the Swedish Parliament or the front of the King's Palace? Can permission be given to anyone in the name of freedom of expression and demonstration to burn the flag of a nation within the perimeters of a foreign embassy with the flag arsonist enjoying protection of the police to perpetrate flag arson? There is freedom of religion in Sweden which is why there are Mosques in Sweden like where those that gathered to celebrate Eid al-Adha on June 28, 2023 in Stockholm's South. The celebration is in commemoration of Biblical Abraham (Muslim's Ibrahim) who wanted to offer his son, Isaac (Muslim's Ishaq) to God as a sacrifice before an Angel appeared to offer him a ram to offer to God (Genesis 22 :1-19). Although in Muslim countries, rams are openly slaughtered in households to mark the occasion, the law-abiding Muslims in Sweden, in compliance to the Swedish law that forbids the slaughter of animals at home, abandoned that aspect of celebrating Eid al-Adha. 

Sweden Foreign Affairs Ministry has condemned the arson committed on Quran in Stockholm and called it an expression for racism and xenophobia. Of what race are Muslims? Of what race are Christians? Does a Swede who voluntarily choose to be a Muslim or Hare Krishna lose his/her racial identity? When nobody is being forced to convert or become Muslim, why must it be a freedom of expression to humiliate Swedish Muslims at their places of abode and their places of prayer, Mosques, by police-supported arsons on their Holy Book, the Quran? Can the Police Authorities in Sweden give permit and protection to anyone, in the name of freedom of expression, to go and read the following verses of the Holy Bible at a Pride Festival Congregation? Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17-18, Romans 1:26-28, 1 Corinthias 6:9-10, and Jude 7-8. Conversely, one will like to know if the Police will grant permit and protection to a same-sex copulating enthusiast to burn a copy of the Bible within the precinct of State Churches in Sweden because of the afore-referred verses. 
S. Kadiri

  

Sent: 02 July 2023 23:56

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Baba Kadiri,

Thanks again and  Jazzak Allah Khairan...

1) Re -What you wrote about the Eid : "The celebration is in commemoration of Biblical Abraham (Muslim's Ibrahim) who wanted to offer his son, Isaac (Muslim's Ishaq) to God as a sacrifice before an Angel appeared to offer him a ram to offer to God (Genesis 22 :1-19)."

According to the Torah it was Isaac that was going to be offered   - it's a foundation of the Hebrew Faith, hence the Akedah is a part of the morning prayer 
According to Islam, it was Ishmael 

2. From this morning's Dagens Nyheter:

Three new applications to burn religious scriptures have been submitted to the police, SVT reports .

Because

The burning of the Koran outside Stockholm's mosque on Wednesday last week provoked strong reactions nationally and internationally.

Now three more applications to burn religious scriptures have been submitted to the police, two of them in Stockholm. The police must now assess whether they can be granted permission or not

- It is about safety aspects at the site. There are certain frameworks that we assess the applications based on, linked to the Public Order Act, says Rebecca Landberg, press spokesperson at the Stockholm Police.

One of the applications is from a woman in her 50s who has applied to burn the Koran outside a mosque in Stockholm, "as soon as possible", according to SVT.

A man in his 30s has applied to burn the Torah and a Bible outside the Israeli embassy in Stockholm on July 15.

On July 12, a private person wants to burn religious texts in central Helsingborg.

The police's region South is now working on the case in Helsingborg, but they do not yet know which religious scripture it is about.

- It is described as a demonstration of freedom of expression, including the burning of religious text, says Mattias Sigfridsson, head of police area Nordvästra Skåne to SVT.

- Our view is that it may not be aimed at any specific religion, but that it is part of freedom of expression and the debate that is going on right now.

After the latest Koran burning, the Swedish embassy in Iraq was stormed by protesters and the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs came out and condemned the action. The Pope and other religious leaders as well.

On Wednesday morning, Pakistan's prime minister called for a nationwide protest this coming Friday.


3. Our Minister of Justice weighs in 




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SWEDISH POLITICS

Demand for a change in the law after the Koran burning - Strömmer "analyzes" the decisive verdict

Updated yesterday 18:48 Published yesterday 17:28

Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M).

Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M). Photo: Magnus Hallgren

After the uproar surrounding Koran burnings, Jonas Trolle, head of the Center Against Violent Extremism, wants the law to be rewritten so that the security of the kingdom is taken into account. When the police took that into account last spring - they were taught homework in several instances.

- We are currently analyzing the verdict within the Ministry of Justice, says Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M) to DN.


Because

The administrative court's verdict was crystal clear: the police lacked support when they stopped a Koran burning outside the Turkish embassy in February. It did not matter that both the police and the Security Police assessed that the Koran burning could mean "serious disruptions to national security". Even the Court of Appeal, where the police appealed the verdict, gave them homework.

So when a 37-year-old man stood outside the Stockholm mosque on Södermalm last week and burned a few pages from the Koran, he did so with the permission of the police.

The incident led to violent reactions around the world - and gave new fuel to the discussion about where the limits of Swedish freedom of expression lie. And on Wednesday, further applications were submitted to the police for permission to burn religious scriptures.

Jonas Trolle, head of the Center against Violent Extremism, is one of those calling for a change in the law, which Ekot in Sveriges Radio was the first to report . He points to a clause in the form of government that enables restrictions on freedom of expression out of consideration for the security of the kingdom. Such a wording should be written into the order law, which regulates public gatherings, he believes.

- For me, it is completely incomprehensible that such does not exist. The Ordinance Act covers traffic, public order and security at the site of demonstrations, but it does not cover more abstract threats such as terror. And it's parodic, says Trolle.

- For a long time, I have mentioned it in different contexts to different people who have the opportunity to influence this.

The Koran burnings have sparked protests. In Sweden but also abroad.

The Koran burnings have sparked protests. In Sweden but also abroad. Photo: Magnus Hallgren

Jonas Trolle, who is appointed by the government, believes that Sweden should be impressed by the fact that democratic countries such as Germany, France and Great Britain have legislation that makes it possible to stop similar events.

- I am for our foundation of freedom of expression, but in the current situation, you have to have a reality check . It is an unreasonable situation we are in.

On Monday, it was made clear that the police are not appealing the Court of Appeal's ruling, which found them wrong when they took national security into account. Something that has caused the Ministry of Justice to react.

- Now the Court of Appeal's judgment has gained legal force and we are currently analyzing it within the Ministry of Justice, writes Minister of Justice Gunnar Strömmer (M) in a comment to DN.

In recent times, several M profiles have also called for a different application of the law. Former foreign minister Carl Bildt has called the administrative court's interpretation "horribly narrow" and Gunnar Hökmark, former EU parliamentarian, has questioned whether Koran burnings really fit within freedom of expression. Even the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, under the leadership of Foreign Minister Tobias Billström, has condemned the Koran burning as an expression of racism and xenophobia.

Today, the moderates do not want to answer yes or no to whether any changes to the law may be needed. When DN put the question to all parties in February about whether there is reason to review the existing legislation, the answer from the Moderates was, in short, "no".

Today, the answer is not as clear.

"The Court of Appeal's judgment has just gained legal force and an analysis of it is underway within the Ministry of Justice. We do not want to precede it," writes the party.

This is how the parties feel about the law.

In a survey, DN asked all parliamentary parties the same question about Koran burnings: "Is there reason to review the legislation that exists today?"

M: The Court of Appeal's judgment has just gained legal force and an analysis of it is underway within the Ministry of Justice. We do not want to precede it.

A: We believe that the far-reaching freedom of expression we have in Sweden should be protected and do not believe that the rules that apply today should be changed. However, each of us also has a responsibility. Burning the Koran or other holy scriptures is deeply offensive to many people and what is legal is not always appropriate.

SD: We haven't had any such discussions.

V: We currently have no proposals for changes to the legislation, but are following the issue closely.

C: Regarding a review of legislation, it is a question of several different laws that interact here, and possibly the interaction may need to be reviewed, but we do not see the need for basic freedoms and rights to be on the table.

KD: The Christian Democrats currently have no such proposal.

MP: We have no such proposal.

L: It is important that we protect the constitution. The Liberals do not see a need to review the legislation.

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Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 6, 2023, 5:57:21 AM7/6/23
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Thanks Salimonu.

I can even join the arsonist who thinks burning my holy books is a useful way to employ  their time.

We could even organise a press conference in which we burn the books together and explain our contrastive reasons for the act.

I could briefly read great lines from Wole Soyinka's Death and the King's Horseman, the ritual scene of which is one of my own scriptures in Orisa spirituality and after that burn a copy of the book.

After burning the book, I could then recite from memory some of the lines that most inspire me in the book and then wonder about the significance of burning a book, the structure and the most inspiring lines for me which I have internalised, a book multiple copies of which exist and which I can easily buy.

Just my own attitude. Not trying to suggest how others should approach their own holy books.

If I may presume to ask-

What, really, is the Koran?

Is it the text visible in black and white letters?

Is it the text and its binding into a volume?

Is it the inspirational force expressed through those letters?

Can the Koran exist without being written, since many Muslims have memorised it?

To what degree is the veneration of a text, particularly in its physical form as expressed in particular volumes, a form of idolatry, a transfer of veneration from essence to form, replacing the divine with an object, and to what degree does it demonstrate respect for a vessel or a form of expression of the divine?

I'm trying to suggest approaches to thinking Koranic hermeneutics, the ontology, the mode of existence of the Koran, to help defeat the efforts of those who wish to discomfit Muslims by burning their scripture.

On the inhuman laws in the Bible, are those laws still in force?

Between Judaim, Christianity and Islam, which of these Abrahamic religions demonstrates greater tendencies of humanness across the various ways they are practised in different countries and different communities in those countries at the present time, and why is this so?

Which of these religions has demonstrated generally the greatest capacity for creative adaptation with time while sustaining its creative essence? 

thanks
toyin



Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 6, 2023, 9:32:53 AM7/6/23
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This is discrimination.

Scriptures of Islam, Christianity and Judaism are either burnt in Sweden or there are applications to burn them but other religions are ignored.

What of my African traditional religions?

Is it being suggested that we have no scriptures or they are not seen as important enough to inspire emotive responses?

Do these people not know of ese ifa and Akam drum language, for example?

Thanks

Toyin 

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Jul 6, 2023, 9:59:35 AM7/6/23
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A footnote to this discussion. It isn’t the religions that differ, itis the political strife. I would cite france, but affirm what i am about to say is true to varying degrees in all states with muslim populations, more or less. There is a struggle between the modernizing communities and the older traditional ones. Furthermore, given the underlying combats with the west, the social values have been instrumentalized and turned into weapons of war, so the fundamentalists claim their victimhood and the right to various oppressive practices; their opponents are generally the modernizing muslims within their own states.
The rightwing in europe and the u.s. jump into that fray, and the most bigoted affirm that all muslims are violent fundamentalists, which is far from the truth. 
What i am saying seems obvious, but it needs to be said in order that we move away from invidious comparisons of the religions, which is not the real issue.
Ken
From: Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 9:47:14 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - More Quran burning in Sweden in the name of "Freedom of Expression " 2
 
At one point in this thread the question arose, are the inhuman verses in the jewish bible still considered jewish law. The answer is no, not since the rabbinic period, maybe 1500 years ago, or so. Some of the most egregious laws, it is said, were never really laws.
But this much i believe i can assert. The basic laws of the state are  determined by the state which has ultimate hegemony, probably everywhere on earth. Even when sharia law obtains, it is the state that grants that power. Secondly, these laws do include capital punishment for various crimes, but between jewish christian and muslim laws and values, there is no real difference, in the modern societies of today.
I do not believe my muslim and christian friends differ from my jewish compeers in any significant way. There are differences in rules of eating, some people differ in their headwear. But their basic values and beliefs are the same, not because of their religions and scriptures either, but because of their social values. Those values dictate to the religions, saying, shape yourselves after us, not vice versa
So the religions change. Why not?
Ken
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 6:13:22 AM

Harrow, Kenneth

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Jul 6, 2023, 9:59:35 AM7/6/23
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At one point in this thread the question arose, are the inhuman verses in the jewish bible still considered jewish law. The answer is no, not since the rabbinic period, maybe 1500 years ago, or so. Some of the most egregious laws, it is said, were never really laws.
But this much i believe i can assert. The basic laws of the state are  determined by the state which has ultimate hegemony, probably everywhere on earth. Even when sharia law obtains, it is the state that grants that power. Secondly, these laws do include capital punishment for various crimes, but between jewish christian and muslim laws and values, there is no real difference, in the modern societies of today.
I do not believe my muslim and christian friends differ from my jewish compeers in any significant way. There are differences in rules of eating, some people differ in their headwear. But their basic values and beliefs are the same, not because of their religions and scriptures either, but because of their social values. Those values dictate to the religions, saying, shape yourselves after us, not vice versa
So the religions change. Why not?
Ken
Sent: Thursday, July 6, 2023 6:13:22 AM

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Jul 6, 2023, 7:55:07 PM7/6/23
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 What is a Holy Book, a Scripture, or a Sacred Text?

Between the Koran, Wole Soyinka and Immanuel Kant

Sociological and Literary Perspectives

Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju

The challenges represented by Koran burning may provoke questions on the nature of sacred texts, questions that may be responded to in spiritual/metaphysical terms, in sociological terms, in literary terms, from the perspective of those who hold those texts as sacred and those who do not, among perhaps other perspectives.

Sacred Texts as a Social Consensus

In sociological terms, a sacred text may be seen simply as a text that a person or group understands as sacred. That perception may be shared between  those who identify with the belief system within which the book is integrated as well as those who do not identify with it. 

One can appreciate the sacredness of a text even if one does not identify with or belong to the larger body of belief, the religion to which the text belongs. On the other hand, other people may see the same text as not being sacred or are indifferent to such claims about the text.

Semantic Range and Literary Power as Central to Sacred Texts

Sacred texts are often a primary means through which religions are constituted, religions developing around them.What qualities define such foundational sacred texts across religions, those texts founding a religion or which it's believers see as primary?

Are there characteristics shared by the Koran, the Bible, the Gita, the Yoruba Orisa tradition  Ese Ifa,  the Holy Books of Thelema by Aleister Crowley, In the Light of Truth of the Grail Message by Abd Ru Shin, for example, the last two being the central sacred texts of religions emerging in the 20th century?

Sacred texts constituting the foundational scriptures of a religion are often characterized by profundity, beauty and simplicity.

Their profundity emerges from addressing issues of the most fundamental value to most people, issues which integrate and go beyond the daily business of living to penetrate into ultimate questions about the significance of existence.

Their beauty is demonstrated in the manner these ideas are projected. There is an emphasis on styles of using language which privilege emotional evocation and imagistic force through the use of verbal music. 

These qualities powerfully conjure an imaginative universe representing the world view built by the sacred text. A world the listener or reader is invited to enter into.

Entry into that imaginative world and acceptance of its coordinates as compelling identification and shaping of one's life according to its values and living accordingly, makes one a practitioner of the religion constructed by that text.

That world is imaginative, not  in terms of whether or not it exists apart from the universe of the text but because a primary method of communicating that world is to shape it through words in a manner that makes immediate what is not actually visible.

This is a fundamental description of literary technique, in this instance, in terms of how ideas of spiritual, non-visible reality are constructed by what people come to accept as religious texts.

These imaginative techniques combine beauty of expression with simplicity of expression, making their evocative power, their imaginative force, their conjuration of a unique reality, accessible to a broad range of people across a broad spectrum of levels of  knowledge, qualities readily translatable in various languages in which the text is rendered.

Without this combination of profundity, beauty and simplicity, I wonder how a text can attain the status of the founding scripture of a religion.

   The Koranic Sura al Nur

A striking example of this combination of profundity, beauty and simplicity is Sura al Nur, from the Koran, from which the following lines may be rendered in English-

''Allah is light
the light of the heavens and the earth
 a blaze shining through a lamp
a lamp hidden within a rock
a shining star
a lamp lit by an olive tree  neither of the east nor of the west
Allah brings to his light whom He wills
Light upon light''

Simple, commonplace but very powerful images are employed in those lines to evoke far reaching impressions, themselves suggesting far ranging ideas.

Images of light, amplified through identification with the light of  a star, associative reverberations further increased  by correlation with the picture of a rock, within which is a lamp, a lamp lit by an oil from a mysterious tree.

Physical, cognitive and spiritual illumination, as suggested by the image of light, is focused through the domestic familiarity of a lamp and projected in terms of the spatial elevation and suggestive force of the remote distance of stars, this conjunction of the domestic and the celestial further conjoined in the image of a rock, an image between distance, since most human beings dont live in rocks, and familiarity, since rocks are terrestrial, unlike the stars.

The entire sequence is presented in a rhythmic combination, consummated in the repetitive force of the closing lines, consummating the initiating idea of this light as being a divine light pervading all existence, the transcendental space of the heavens and the immediacies of  earth.

    Wole Soyinka's Image of Egrets Flying into the Setting Sun in A Shuttle in  the  Crypt

Compare those lines with another sequence from a different text, using the imagery of light, in relation to the celestial bodies-

''A choir of egrets, servers at the day's recessional,  on aisles fading to the infinite"

Another wonderfully beautiful line, from Woke Soyinka's A Shuttle in Crypt, evoking the image of egrets flying in formation towards the setting sun, ''the day's recessional'', their ranks of white suggesting choir attendants and mass servers at a Christian Mass.

To better appreciate this image, it would be helpful to be acquainted with the appearance of uniformed  Christian choirs and uniformed Mass servers in church, as the Mass servers file towards the altar, passing by aisles leading towards the altar, the entire image fused with the idea of infinity into which the aisles are visualised as moving towards, infinity itself correlated, with the setting sun, "the day's recessional", the day receding into darkness.

This is a very evocatively powerful image, transforming a commonplace sight into something glorious, something numinous, something both holy and beyond the boundaries of the material universe, dramatizing an everyday natural occurrence as the expression of a sacred ritual, elevating the conventional, space  and time bound performance of the Christian Mass to a cosmic plane through identifying it with naturally occurring events, the setting sun into the direction of which a flock of egrets is flying, thereby evoking the essence of the theology of the Mass as the enactment of a ritual of cosmic proportions, unifying the human and the divine, spirit and matter.

      Convergences and Divergences between the Koranic and the  Soyinka Texts 

The Koranic text does something similar, in a different way, as familiar images, domestic and celestial, become projections of divine illumination.

A central difference between both poetic forms, however, is that the Soyinka lines require an acquaintance with a specialized visual universe, that of the Christian church and Mass, while that of the Koran does not require acquaintance with anything beyond the data of everyday perception in order to appreciate.

Universality of Literary Power Across Foundational Religious Texts 

Examples like this recur in the foundational, originating sacred texts of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Yoruba origin Orisa spirituality and others.

Reading the Bible, for example this quality of imaginative power operating through readily accessible images defines a good number of it's most powerful sections, from the Psalms, to Proverbs to the Gospels.

Non-Foundational Spiritual Literature

Some non-foundational texts in various spiritualities may also demonstrate such qualities.

    Wole Soyinka's The Seven Signposts 

An example of this is Wole Soyinka's The Seven Signposts, a seven stanza poem the contemporary Nigerian writer composed in response to the claim that classical African spiritualities have no scriptures, as he describes the genesis of the poem in The Credo of Being and Nothingness where it was first published.

The poem is not a foundational to any religion because it does not have such broad based recognition. It is one of my own sacred texts, though, and for me, is foundational, being the best short account of the spirituality known to me.

The following lines exemplify the poem's projection of profundity, beauty and simplicity:

" Obatala fulfills. Purity, love, transparency of heart. Stoical strength. Luminous truth. Man is imperfect;man strives towards perfection. Yet even the imperfect may find interior harmony with nature. Spirit overcomes blemish-be it of mind or body. Oh, peace that giveth understanding, possess our human heart".

Soyinka wonderfully distills vast, divergent but correlative realms of reference in relation to the Orisha deity Obatala, clearly and forcefully demonstrating the universal significance of  this deity conception as speaking to the loftiest human aspirations across space and time.

The tension between aspiration and fulfillment, between the vision of perfection and the reality of imperfection, is vividly dramatized through the concise force of those lines, lines in which a range of learning is distilled for it's essential values while the sources of this learning are unreferenced in the name of immediacy of communication. 

Secular Sacred Texts

A text generally understood as secular may also have sacred significance for some people, demonstrating, in various ways qualities defining religious texts.

One of such for me is philosopher Immanuel Kant's closing meditation on self and cosmos, temporality and infinity, in his Critique of Practical Reason.

Translated into English, it begins-

"Two things fill the mind with ever new and ever renewed admiration and awe, the more often and the more steadily  they are reflected upon, the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me".

Those lines are sublime in conjuncting the two great polarities of the cosmos as understood by humanity, the inner world of the self and the outer, material universe, the latter projected in terms of one of it's grandest expressions, the stars poised in majesty above the earth, this polarity conjoined in terms of intensifications of consciousness inspired by keen sensitivity to these aspects of existence uniquely dramatizing the wonder of being.

Relationship Between Literary Creativity and Belief in Divine Inspiration 

What is the relationship between artistic skill and the divine inspiration to which religious sacred texts are often attributed?

Inspiration, an enhancement of the mind's creative abilities, facilitates the integrations of words, images and ideas. Inspiration occurs at various degrees of depth and impact on the mind. It may be spectacular, described as an encounter with a spiritual entity, as in Muhammad's account of his encounter with the angel Gabriel, or  undramatic, closer to the Biblical, " the still small voice".

It may occur across both overtly religious and secular writing. The sources of inspiration are partly traceable to the internal  workings of the human mind in relation to the experience of the person experiencing it and yet not so readily accountable in it's totality.

Are religious texts divine structures? Do they embody the direct voice of the divine?

I see them as a combination of human aspiration and creative powers at times wholesome and at other times not wholesome, as evident from inhuman sections of various foundational sacred texts.

Can the divine communicate in human terms without passing through the human mind? In doing so, would the communication not be shaped by the character of that mind and the character, strengths and limitations of it's expressive powers?

I understand the Kantian passage opened by the quote above to be an inspired text. Inspired by whom or what? 

Inspired by the confluence of Kant's sensitivity to the aspects of existence he describes, by his breadth of study and depth of reflection and by his skill as a writer, all these enabled by the mysterious power of life he celebrates in the passage following those opening lines.

Does that power of life demonstrate a creative intelligence fundamental to Kant's inspiration as religious texts claim for their own inspiration?

I don't know.

Can the Composition of Sacred Literature be Cultivated?

Can sacred verbal composition be cultivated, studied and practised?

I think so and various methods through which the inspiration that fires them may be cultivated can be studied and choices made as to which to adopt or an effort made to cultivate one's own methods or nurturing inspiration.

How does such a view relate to the idea of the uncircumscribed freedom of the divine in deciding whom to grant such inspiration to?

Muhammad catalyzed or opened himself to inspiration through intense and consistent prayer.

If he had not so prayed, would he have received the inspiration?

Various literary composers also receive inspiration without ascribing it to the divine.

The first thing is to act. Everything else is secondary.




















Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 6, 2023, 7:55:22 PM7/6/23
to USA Africa Dialogue Series

Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju,


Since unlike Islam and Judaism ( The Nationhood of  “God’s Chosen People”, Zionism, etc ) Buddhism does not promote a political ideology, we are to suppose that at this stage Buddhism does not pose a threat to world peace, the way that  those who profess “democracy” do ( threaten world peace and then say that they are “ peacemakers only” 


Masters of  War


“Holy Christian soldiers”….


In Europe, the fear of Islam goes back to what resulted in the Crusades and the Crusader propaganda that Muslims worship an unholy trinity comprising the devil, his prophet, and the Black Stone in Mecca. That gained some currency. After 911 etc fast forward to the fear of what’s been labelled Eurabia exacerbated by the reality that Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe, and not only in Europe, because Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world: You got it.  So that’s why there’s a fear of Islam by you know who, and that includes you.


Sure, Islam has many enemies because, for example, Islam opposes LGBTQ, and Islam opposes same-sex marriage. So, Islam has many enemies among those who embrace such practices as “ holy”


Sometimes I can’t understand you. You are or were against the burning of witches, but not of scriptures? 


You are fond of asking questions, you want to know what is The Quran. 


Perchance on one of your cosmic missions “exploring every corner of the cosmos in search of Knowledge" you came across the concept of The Uncreated Quran.  Check it out. 


Nothing to waffle about. 


Perhaps in this lifetime, God forbid.in addition to that 6th January storming of the capitol you would like to witness some miscreants burning a copy of The US Constitution, the Holy US Constitution  and the US Flag outside the Capitol and then wonder what is Big Joe Biden and the American People getting so excited about when they start yelling that the arsonists must be brought to justice? 


With reference to book burning, the father of the Reformation Martin Luther and his antisemitism ought not to escape our scrutiny, after all, in his diatribe “On the Jews and Their Lies” he explicitly recommended - in his own words: 


“I shall give you my sincere advice:   First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly ­ and I myself was unaware of it ­ will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.   Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead, they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.   Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted) “

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Jul 6, 2023, 9:31:44 PM7/6/23
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Correction : 


I didn’t just write “Martin Luther”, I purposefully wrote Martin Luther and his antisemitism and this is very important because in any discussion of the matter at hand, Quran-burning in Sweden: we must first take note that as far as the kingdom of Christianity is concerned, Sweden is Lutheran territory and we are to surmise that the Lutheran Church of Sweden has probably not formally renounced their founder Martin Luther’s theological prejudices, altogether and even if they have, how do we explain or account for the persistence and the growth of antisemitism in Sweden? 


The researchers in prejudice may want to defend their dear Martin and argue that after all “Martin Luther was not Islamophobic” - but the fact is that although the main axe that he had to grind was with the Holy Roman Catholic Church (he publicly burned a copy of the Pope’s "Exsurge Domine" and refused to recant ) as a diehard extremist there can be no doubt at all and it is on record that he was also doctrinally opposed to Islam and would certainly never have considered converting to that religion. Nor are we to assume that his spiritual descendants, the Lutheran people of this century, over here in Sweden would contemplate conversion to Islam either…


However, there is a ray of light and a window of opportunity that the Swedes who are hellbent on joining NATO could exploit and bring this sordid long drawn out episode, this Quran-burning sacrilege to an end, to a peaceful and peaceable conclusion., with due apologies.


Currently faced with three applications from people who want to burn the Torah/ Tanakh, the Christian Bible, and the Quran, the authorities could now pass a law that forbids and criminalise the burning of scriptures in public places…


Secondly, in a more conciliatory tone and in an effort to appease Turkiye’s President  Erdogan and the Ummah , through the various channels available to them the Swedish authorities could point to all the positive things that Martin Luther expressed about Islamic faith and about  Islam and “the Turks”


N.B. Quran :There is no compulsion in religion

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Aug 1, 2023, 6:29:08 PM8/1/23
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Sweden: Quran burned outside the Swedish Parliament (on Monday, 31st July 2023


OIC ( Organisation of Islamic Cooperation)  issue statement on Quran burning in Sweden

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