Please, short of spitting fire and venom, how does one begin to approach this question :
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Please, short of spitting fire and venom, how does one begin to approach this question :
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On Jun 30, 2020, at 3:50 PM, 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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The long-standing issue of Reparations wasn’t taken up by Brother Obama (Luo father from Kenya) not during his first term as first Black President ever and not in the Second term either. If he had as much as raised the issue during his first term, it’s almost certain that he would not have served a second term, based on these sort of arguments advanced by David Horowitz long before Obama set foot in the White House. The idea of Reparations, of so called “Black Privilege”, of painting the White House BLACK – the colour of the occupant, would have succeeded in dividing the USA as never before and would have also only succeeded in enraging Trump and his White Supremacists and most likely witnessed an increase in USA-Police-Brutality as an inevitable backlash – part of the unwritten policy as a general consensus and tacit understanding of “keeping niggers in their place”, of “ keeping the niggers in check”
For that reason, Obama did not take up the Reparations cause in the second term either ( Trump would have asked for a more thorough examination of Brother Obama’s Birth Certificate and would have probably started a Back-to-Africa Crusade, to the lands of Obama’s ancestors and for the Black, African and African-American Brothers and Sisters - if Brother Obama had insisted. Needless to say, neither Pa nor Ma Clinton pushed the idea either.
Even though Black Lives Matter and the somewhat counter-revolutionary All Lives Matter is the immediate background to the next presidential elections , Reparations is still not in the air.
The question remains, if not now, when?
In the meanwhile, Trump is busy selling himself as the law and order President appointed by God, approved by God and the Founding Fathers, after Obama, and especially sent by God to protect America’s sacred monuments and confederate legacies.
Trump is currently expanding his base to incorporate skills over degrees…
With improved vocational training, a similar policy would develop fruits in Nigeria, although - perish the thought - for some of Nigeria’s Big Buk and, even if they have not ever been near the Palace, some of the Buckingham Palace Big Grammar people the idea of skills over degrees in the employment market, is anathema
It goes without saying, that skills is the essence of Germany’s industrial pre-eminence, whilst a lack of the requisite manpower requirements is why the Chinese move in with their complete workforce to execute whatever project, in record time….
Please, short of spitting fire and venom, how does one begin to approach this question :
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I’m still hoping for a fulsome reply ( the female touch) and at least some comforting words from First Lady Gloria in Excelsis Emeagwali, to whom the question is also addressed.
The long-standing issue of Reparations wasn’t taken up by Brother Obama (Luo father from Kenya), not during his first term as first Black President ever and not in the Second term either. If he had as much as raised the issue during his first term, it’s almost certain that he would not have served a second term, based on these sort of arguments advanced by David Horowitz long before Obama set foot in the White House. The idea of Reparations, of so-called “Black Privilege”, of painting the White House BLACK – the colour of the occupant, would have succeeded in dividing the USA as never before and would have also only succeeded in enraging Trump and his White Supremacists and most likely witnessed an increase in USA-Police-Brutality as an inevitable backlash – part of the unwritten policy as a general consensus and tacit understanding of “keeping niggers in their place”, of “ keeping the niggers in check”
For that reason, Obama did not take up the Reparations cause in the second term either ( Trump would have asked for a more thorough examination of Brother Obama’s Birth Certificate and would have probably started a Back-to-Africa Crusade, to the lands of Obama’s ancestors and for the Black, African, and African-American Brothers and Sisters - if Brother Obama had insisted. Needless to say, neither Pa nor Ma Clinton pushed the idea either.
Even though Black Lives Matter and the somewhat counter-revolutionary All Lives Matter is the immediate background to the next presidential elections , Reparations is still not in the air.
The question remains, if not now, when?
In the meanwhile, Trump is busy selling himself as the law and order President appointed by God, approved by God and the Founding Fathers, after Obama, and especially sent by God to protect America’s sacred monuments and confederate legacies.
Trump is currently expanding his base to incorporate skills over degrees…
With improved vocational training, a similar policy would develop fruits in Nigeria, although - perish the thought - for some of Nigeria’s Big Buk and, even if they have not ever been near the Palace, some of the Buckingham Palace Big Grammar people the idea of skills over degrees in the employment market is anathema
It goes without saying, that skills is the essence of Germany’s industrial pre-eminence, whilst a lack of the requisite manpower requirements is why the Chinese move in with their complete workforce to execute whatever the project, in record time….
One possible reason is inheritance. People do inherit the assets and liabilities of their forefathers.
On Jun 29, 2020 8:27 PM, "Cornelius Hamelberg" <hamelberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Please, short of spitting fire and venom, how does one begin to approach this question :--
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On Jun 30, 2020, at 7:06 PM, Cornelius Hamelberg <hamelberg...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Gloria in Excelsis Emeagwali,
Many thanks for the explanation. I had thought that Trump was doing his best to rope in the working class of America, that it was a move worthy of Bernie Sanders and that perhaps at his next rally rant Trump would be leading his folk to chant not Beasts of England, but Beasts of America with he himself as their chief prig, grand wizard and choirmaster. We now understand his self-serving spiel about skills above degrees. As dear Mitt Romney said about Trump, “ His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University”
Salman Rushdie warns America : I've seen dictators rise and fall. Beware America
Good to know : Hujjat-Allah al-Mahdi ( alaihi salaam)
To tell you the truth, I’m really missing Brother Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the former President of Iran, especially since Iran issued a warrant for Trump’s arrest. There’s no doubt that at this stage of human and international affairs Mahmoud would have been exchanging some verbal fire with the Donald, the taghut. Only Ahmadinejad had the requisite chutzpah quality that would have been correctly targeting the devil in the White House, after the assassination of Qasem Soleimani, now alive with the Martyrs.
It took the murder of George Floyd and Trump’s total lack of reaction to blot Trump out of my good book, permanently.
Reality check: If Brother Obama did not even mention the word “REPARATIONS” during his eight long years in the Oval Office , then for a surety Joe Biden is not going to be the one who will mention or take up the good fight that his boss Obama failed to do. A really Black President would have had Reparations at the top of his agenda.
I’m not a racist, however, I agree most wholeheartedly with Biden when he says, “You ain't Black” - if you vote for Trump . Reparations is the very last thing that Trump would advocate – at best he would tell his folks, “Reparations? Over my dead body! Let them go back to Africa, to get reparations there.” Donald Trump is not the kind of guy who would be willing to die on the cross for a Black man.
I’m not a racist, but I wouldn’t vote for Mister Hitler or a White Supremacist either.
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Dear Baba Kadiri,
Yesterday, the Democratic Republic of the Congo celebrated their 60 Independence Anniversary
Today, Somalia celebrated their 60th Independence Anniversary
There is much to ponder about how far we have come and how much further we must go
As Historian Moses Ochonu put it, “We historians value closure”. He was, of course, talking to his fellow academics – the texture of his language suggests that what he was saying in so many words was not for the consumption of ordinary people like us. And we non-historians who are not helpless and hapless electrons in the passage of time don’t we also want a happy denouement/ ending to all the suffering?
Better some feasting at the high table down here on earth or up there in Heaven, after providing some vitamins for the worms that will nibble at us in the grave?
For the religious-minded, a special note on the devil that’s directly responsible for everything evil…
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Baba Kadiri,
Thinking about Pius Adesanmi who liked Don Williams ( what would he have been saying now ), my late friend Akintola Wyse who was a great fan of Jim Reeves (what would he have been saying today) and Chidi’s eulogy which rained down tears on this forum when Kenny Rogers passed away, just now when I’m checking out the relationship between country music and the Confederate flag
I have still not recovered from your reply which is truly depressing, and all the more so when we consider that at Independence, Ghana, 6th of March 1957, Nigeria, 1st October 1960, Sierra Leone, 27th April 1961, we were confident, optimistic, hopeful and determined as we held “ these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”
Sadly, not much has really changed with regard to equal opportunity for the pursuit of individual and collective liberty. For our American brothers and sisters, not much has changed and for some of post-independent Africa, even with a change of management, from colonial to indigenous Black self-rule, in some areas, things have only got progressively much worse.
After the horrific murder of George Floyd we and the rest of the world have become more aware and alerted about the state of affairs for the Black man and the Black woman in the United States and in the rest of the world. We are now being endlessly inundated by historical information about how bad things were and lately – history still being made on a daily basis, horrendous reports such as, “ the slaughter of Christians in Nigeria – scroll down a little further and read about what happened on May 7th.
The saddest fact is that it’s because we apparently cannot successfully govern ourselves and that’s why people such as late movie actor John Wayne and an American president like Trump can taunt us that we reluctant to go back to our supposedly “shithole “countries.
Maybe, things would have been different if we had been colonised by Sweden or by Wales? If by the latter some of us would now be squabbling about this kind of subject matter.
When I was in the first form, I had a penfriend by the name of Martin Yeo, who lived in Glamorgan, Wales. (Smile)
If it’s in your heart to reply to my sorrow, please say something positively uplifting or hold your peace.
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Sir Michael,
Many Thanks for the thoughts and the understanding.
After 59 years of Independence a Chief Executive Officer from the promised land flipping hamburgers part-time at McDonald's in Atlanta, Georgia. Sheer madness. Who is to blame?
“Well, I don't know, but I've been told
The streets in heaven are lined with gold…”
It’s utterly depressing that there are more Ethiopian doctors in any of the big US cities such as New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, than in Ethiopia. In 2003, there was a total of 68 doctors, 4 dentists and a (one) psychiatrist in the whole of Sierra Leone, whereas there were 39, 000 Medical doctors in Algeria, that year.
Indeed, our sorrow, our collective sorrow. You say that I must persevere. OK, I’ll try and soldier on. I have Jesus. I have no other choice. I guess that I must first understand the full extent of what persevere actually means, its breadth of meaning so that I don’t get you wrong.
I have just looked it up : persevere, verb, continue in a course of action even in the face of difficulty or with little or no indication of success. "his family persevered with his treatment"
Since it’s our sorrow, our collective sorrow, I had better conjugate the verb, include all of us, I must persevere, you must persevere, they must persevere, we must all persevere.
Suicide is a major problem, one of the ways out of existential agony over here, you know.
If I were to complain to Suzannah the lady down the road she’ll probably tell me something soothing, such as to hell with social distancing, amor vincit omnia; not such a bad idea except that I’m not going to get into any “let's overcome it together” or "let's jump into the river together."
For good measure I have also consulted the Devil’s Dictionary and this definition got dragged up from the entrails of Jonah’s whale:
PERSEVERANCE, n.
A lowly virtue whereby mediocrity achieves an inglorious success.
"Persevere, persevere!" cry the homilists all,
Themselves, day and night, persevering to bawl.
"Remember the fable of tortoise and hare --
The one at the goal while the other is -- where?"
Why, back there in Dreamland, renewing his lease
Of life, all his muscles preserving the peace,
The goal and the rival forgotten alike,
And the long fatigue of the needless hike.
His spirit a-squat in the grass and the dew
Of the dogless Land beyond the Stew,
He sleeps, like a saint in a holy place,
A winner of all that is good in a race.
I have talked to Baba Kadiri a few times since I told him to hold his peace (we will soon be hearing from him) in the meantime I am looking more closely at Isaiah 53 about the Suffering Servant
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Corrected
Sir Michael,
Good Afternoon! At this very point, my Russian Orthodox friend just called to tell me that this is the year 7528 and not the Hebrew Year 5780. This only means that one of us is living in the wrong year.
Your morphological components are reminiscent of Dr. Watson and Sherlock Holmes Go Camping
Yes, the language bug, the language buggers, and the de-buggers like our Nigerian brother emigre to the USA flipping bloody hamburgers instead of giving executive orders. That strain in British philosophy, logical positivism to late Wittgenstein. The Germans always a lot more clear-cut (and crisp).
Tempting Don Harrow here: I read The Myth of Sisyphus in Swedish and entered another world….
There’s also this: Slavery in the Bible
No worries.
I don’t know what it is in Yoruba (I’ll ask Baba Kadiri) but as the saying goes, “A fool will persist in his follies!”
As Blake put it, “If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise.”
Merde!
My good friend Claude Kayat has two mantras one of which is (as he throws up his hands and flails the air in true French gesticulation) “ Too many words!” – although ( I have known him for almost half a century) - although he himself more than occasionally becomes as word-drunk as Dylan Thomas, and, as you know, from a pure-ly English point of view, the French speak like machine guns, whereas the less aggressive Arabs don’t have any “ p-words”, they lack the power of the plosive ( p) in the most eloquent Arabic tongue and that’s why Ghaddafi used to say, “ the bebble” instead of “ the people”…
Indeed, “Traduttore, traditore" (A translator is a traitor.” Period.
Sir Michael, let me remind you, it was a day of mourning when Tanakh was “ translated” from the Lashon Hakodesh ( the holy tongue) into Greek and baptised “ Septuagint “; so, quoting Isaiah 53 whether in Greek or in Yoruba falls short of the mark. Falls far short.
As to commentaries on such translations, well consider e.g. the noisy rogue reaction to Ambassador John Campbell who merely, so clearly wrote “ It is rare for the Department of State or the Department of Justice to say that there is an investigation underway, and neither has done so publicly.”
You too, stay safe, Sir Michael….
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Sir Michael,
Good Afternoon! At this very point, my Russian Orthodox friend just called to tell me that this is the year 7528 and not the Hebrew Year 5780. This only means that one of us is living in the wrong year.
Your morphological components are reminiscent of Dr. Watson and Sherlock Holmes Go Camping
Yes, the language bug, the language buggers, and the de-buggers like our Nigerian brother emigre to the USA flipping bloody hamburgers instead of giving executive orders. That strain in British philosophy, logical positivism to late Wittgenstein. The Germans always a lot more clear-cut (and crisp).
Tempting Don Harrow here: I read The Myth of Sisyphus in Swedish and entered another world….
There’s also this: Slavery in the Bible
No worries.
I don’t know what it is in Yoruba (I’ll ask Baba Kadiri) but as the saying goes, “A fool will persist in his follies!”
As Blake put it, “If the fool would persist in his folly he would become wise.”
Merde!
My good friend Claude Kayat has two mantras one of which is (as he throws up is hands and flails the air in true French gesticulation) “ Too many words!” – although ( I have known him for almost half a century) - although he himself more than occasionally becomes as word-drunk as Dylan Thomas, and, as you know, from a pure-ly English point of view, the French speak like machineguns, whereas the less aggressive Arabs don’t have any “ p-words”, they lack the power of the plosive ( p) in the most eloquent Arabic tongue and that’s why Ghaddafi used to say, “ the beebble” instead of “ the people”…
Indeed, “Traduttore, traditore" (A translator is a traitor.” Period.
Sir Michael, let me remind you, it was a day of mourning when Tanakh was “ translated” from the Lashon Hakodesh ( the holy tongue) into Greek and baptised “ Septuagint “; so, quoting Isaiah 53 whether in Greek or in Yoruba falls short of the mark. Falls far short.
As to commentaries on such translations, well consider e.g. the noisy rogue reaction to Ambassador John Campbell who merely, so clearly wrote “ It is rare for the Department of State or the Department of Justice to say that there is an investigation underway, and neither has done so publicly.”
You too, stay safe, Sir Michael….
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On Jul 7, 2020, at 3:16 AM, 'Michael Afolayan' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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Gloria in Excelsis Emeagwali,
On the Day of judgement, I doubt that I will be asked about other people’s sins and omissions, other people’s lack of great Hebrew, other people’s prayer record, other people’s fornication and corruption or other people’s faults and misdemeanours.
Here’s Some Wisdom: Mesilat Yesharim: Chapter XVII: Concerning the means of Acquiring Purity
“And to purify his thoughts in relation to Divine service, he must give much thought to the falseness of pride. If he does so, he will be clean during the time of his Divine service of any strivings for the praises and encomiums of men and his mind will be directed solely to our Lord, who is our praise, and all our good, and our perfection, and besides Whom there is nothing, as it is said ( Deuteronomy 10: 21, “He is your praise and He is your God” (Mesilat Yesharim / Path of the Just by Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato zt'l Chapter 17 - Acquiring Purity with select commentaries)
A very important chapter : Acquiring Fear of Sin …
As King Arthur faint and pale once replied to Sir Bedivere:
“This is a shameful thing for men to lie.”
I am always, strictly honest, even when I go to the party to which the invitation craves, “dress to impress” or “dress to kill”. Honesty is the best policy. We don’t have to be paternalistic about it (like Michael O) – shmile – and as you know, there are many like Michael O who know or think / assume that they know, there’s even the Naija wahala police constable, self-appointed sanitary inspector of the Baga-Baga tribe like a bloodhound his pure nostrils on the lookout, flaring, busy shmelling the odour of corruption and bad grammar everywhere.
When it comes to abysmal ignorance, there is, of course, a difference between Jesus on the cross saying “ Father, forgive them for they don’t know what they are doing “and the Rabbi speaking generally, who says, “ Father, forgive them for they know nothing!”
I must explain that my tendency is to address the heart or the implication/s in the question/subject matter, not to concentrate too much on the water is wet aspects…
You, Gloria, are not happy with Isaiah because of alleged
Sadism (Isaiah 5 & 10 & 13)
and what you call “ethno-nationalistic triumphalism.”, i.e. the celebration of victory in Isaiah
Because I sense where you’re coming from (and where you and women’s lib are going) I’ll just say this: In the Morning Blessings, everybody recites, (in Hebrew)
“Blessed are you HASHEM,
Our God, King of the universe
For not having made me a slave”
Men and boys recite (in Hebrew)
“Blessed are you HASHEM,
Our God, King of the universe
For not having made me a woman”
Women and girls recite (in Hebrew)
“Blessed are you HASHEM,
Our God, King of the universe
for having made me according to His will”
You could check the footnote on this – too long to quote here but I’ll quote this bit which I’m sure you will approve: “Furthermore, women have often been the protectors of Judaism when the impetuosity and aggressiveness of the male nature led the men astray. The classic precedent was in the wilderness when the men - not the women - worshipped the Golden Calf. Thus, though women were not given the privilege of the challenge assigned to men, they are created closer to God’s ideal of satisfaction. They express their gratitude in the blessing, “For having made me according to His will”
At the synagogue library, I watched one female librarian after the other come and go - in the course of two decades ( as you know, in the United States, the college librarian has the same status as a professor) so you can imagine my surprise when I would chat with them and eventually ask questions about the Torah and would get the answer, “ Ask the Rabbi” . Lilian – the one I asked most, directed my attention away from Torah and towards Halacha - and for a few weeks, I was puzzled by this until this sank in Judaism : Women not supposed to study Torah
Music: Anat Cohen: "And The World Weeps"
Respectfully,
Cornelius
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kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Please be cautious: **External Email**
_________________________
Femi J. Kolapo
History Department * University of Guelph * Ontario * Canada* N1G 2W1
________________________
On Jun 29, 2020 8:27 PM, "Cornelius Hamelberg" <hamelbergcornelius4@gm
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
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_________________________
Femi J. Kolapo
History Department * University of Guelph * Ontario * Canada* N1G 2W1
________________________
SPREAD Journals of African Education: African Journal of Teacher Education || Review of Higher Education in Africa || Recreation and Society in Africa, Asia and Latin America
F. J. Kolapo, Christian Missionary Engagement in Central Nigeria: The Church Missionary Society's All-African Mission on the Upper Niger, (Springer International Publishing, 2019) Preview
________________________
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
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Baba Kadiri,
Only the monkey is agile. The elders are not supposed to be, even if these days their legs will refuse to carry them as fast as they would like their legs to carry them to safety in times of danger; no matter how hard they try, for sure, their legs become disobedient to commands from the brain and refuse to run up trees as quickly as they would like to if it should happen that one of Obodimma Oha’s bloodthirsty bloodhounds were to be chasing an elder. You notice that I do not say, “should be chasing one of us “. God forbid that they would do so.
Nor should we have any illusions about the genesis of the George Floyd phenomenon that we are witnessing today and that has been going on since the institution of slavery in North America, that it precedes the preamble to the United States Declaration of Independence which goes,
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”
when this was the actual reality,
and the fact is that
41 of the 56 delegates who signed the Declaration of Independence were slave owners...
All forms of slavery are currently illegal and that includes debt slavery - as is practised in Pakistan at the moment.
There is a moral to the liberation of the Hebrew slaves in Egypt, according to the Book of Exodus and the Almighty’s exhortation to them in Devarim / Deuteronomy 17:16 to not go that way again
Any slave-like relationships sanctioned by the Almighty is a question for the Rabbis to solve, within their own domains.
As to the other question being discussed in this thread, Femi Kolapo questions like a Jain , so I won’t “ badger “ him and generally speaking I don’t like the bad in anyone who acts like an enemy.
There is the general understanding in Judaism that the Akedah is sufficient testimony to the fact that the Almighty does not require any human sacrifice/ sacrifices; however Christian theology based on Vayikra / Leviticus 17:11 which states that “For it is the blood that atones for the soul” is believed to be ultimately fulfilled in the person and personality of Jesus the ultimate fulfillment of sacrifice, making korbanot unnecessary
The pundits can go on and start another eternal discussion about this….
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Professor Segun Ogungbemi,
By “religious discourse”, I presume that both you and Ken mean prophecy, the-word-of-God, and the inspired word-of-God scriptures, theology, preachments, religious commentaries, teachings…
You say that “the divine is pure and moral. That is why he cannot be associated with impurities of humans. As Jeremiah says, "The heart of man is desperately wicked and who can know it." Jeremiah is addressing human nature and not the totality of human behavior.”
As Jeremiah knows there’s always room for teshuva…
Christian believers find the meeting of the Divine and the Human in the person Jesus, truly human and truly divine. For the Christian believer, it is the sinless man, the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ as the son of God, i.e. God in human form that taught the morality known as the Sermon on the Mount.
What are we to say about the morality that is mediated in human language, through man (e.g. the Prophet Moses) and legislated as “the word of God”, such as The Ten Commandments?
Does your opinion that “Jeremiah is addressing human nature and not the totality of human behavior” not leave an opening for some not wholly corrupted human nature or human behaviour and the possibility for some holy, middle ground where the human is inspired by the divine, such as what we observe here: INSIDE THE TEMPLE OF A GHANAIAN SPIRITUALIST!!!
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kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
On Jul 13, 2020, at 5:27 PM, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
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