‘Chosen people’ ideology

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Gloria Emeagwali

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Aug 5, 2020, 10:42:06 AM8/5/20
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“The word has been used to describe one of God’s chosen people....”


“Chosen people” ideology is actually
detrimental and counter productive
in that it could even endorse genocide. It is an innovative geopolitical strategy
sometimes cloaked in theological garments, designed to rally the troops and energize communities, but it could even lead to Rwanda - like genocidal situations. It is built on
platforms of narcissism and even
triumphalism, as seen in policies such as “Manifest Destiny”of the US, and even South African apartheid.

No people on planet 🌏
earth have ever been specially chosen
except in imaginary reconstructions and geopolitical strategic modeling.
No one expects a supreme being to be a supporter of apartheid, old and new - with due respect to the Abrahamic theological edifice.

GE

Harrow, Kenneth

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Aug 5, 2020, 12:39:01 PM8/5/20
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what was this thread in response to? i see gloria quoting some posting, but only that one line.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Gloria Emeagwali <gloria.e...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:39 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
 
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Gloria Emeagwali

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Aug 5, 2020, 1:11:00 PM8/5/20
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Ken, 
This was in response to Desmond Dekker’s reggae song posted at 14.45p yesterday.

GE

On Aug 5, 2020, at 12:39, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:



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Harrow, Kenneth

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Aug 5, 2020, 1:42:12 PM8/5/20
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many jews to today renounce the epithet "chosen," probably for reasons similar to what you cite, gloria. in our liturgy the wording about chosenness is changed, especially in reconstructionist judaism here in the states. perhaps cornelius might tell us better about european, which is more orthodox.
after the holocaust, most jews felt bitter about the notion of chosenness. for some, the wording in the bible led jews to think it meant being a light unto other peoples. but faith in any special designation, after the holocaust, had to be replaced by bitterness.
how its adaptation by rastas worked out is another matter. but i think you should temper your thinking about what it means for jews of today, especially after having faced total extermination in the time of their grandparents, or parents.
i agree it becomes used instrumentally by israeli nationalists to justify the state of israel, and an excuse for their bad treatment of palestinians. i find that reprehensible. but not all jews agree with me on that point.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

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Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:39 AM
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
 
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Gloria Emeagwali

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Aug 5, 2020, 3:08:34 PM8/5/20
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Well the Rastas will argue that they 
underwent “bad treatment “ and so, too the Tutsis and the Black South Africans but that does not give them the right to 
call themselves “chosen”. I admire several 
aspects of Rastafarian philosophy but
I reserve the right to criticize those aspects of their world view that seem
questionable to me. “Chosen people” ideology is a great political 
strategy but to elevate it into some kind of absolutist spiritual theory is counterproductive because once you argue that you are “chosen” you 
fall into the exceptionalism trap that could justify the same kind of atrocities that led you there.  I was surprised that you linked
“Chosen-ism” to  holocaust responses, Ken. That was far from my thinking.

G

Harrow, Kenneth

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Aug 5, 2020, 4:05:13 PM8/5/20
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gloria
chosen-ism was a major factor in anti-semitism in europe. the two millenia of hatred against jews stemmed in large measure from christian hatred of their co-monotheistic faith, and sense that it challenged their own faith.
jews were blamed for killing and sacrificing babies, drinking blood, etc. it's right there in chaucer; in shakespeare even in the pound of flesh.
i think that arguing against it today is to argue against something that is not current in jewish identity or religion, so why do so? jews are presumably uniquely evil, if i follow your point. i would argue they are not different from other people. certainly the idea of being chosen was destroyed for jews by the holocaust because why would god have permitted such a thing to his people? that would be how most felt after the holocaust, and in fact israel was founded by people who favored secularism, partly due to the discrediting of any notion of "chosenness."
lastly, despite your argument that jewish chosenness is different, i disagree. the notion of superiority of a people, say tutsis or yoruba or any other group, was not really different from jews in their sense of themselves as a community.

most people, in the end, see their groups as superior. i think it is a feature of human nature to see one's self or group as different, and in the difference, better. "we do it this way; you do it that way" and unstated, but believed: "ours is the right way."

we live in an age that some view as privileging diversity, not chosenness. maybe that will help improve human society, if we can convince people of this value.
k

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:08 PM

Moses Ebe Ochonu

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Aug 5, 2020, 7:30:05 PM8/5/20
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But Ken, I have read your posts and you seem to be responding to something Gloria did not write. She referenced "the Abrahamic theological edifice." This, as you know, includes Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. She wasn't referring to Judaism specifically. Did I miss another post of hers? I don't know enough about Judaism and its evolving theologies, so I take your word that choos-ism is no longer a component of Jewish thought. I will however tell you, as a Christian, that Evangelical and Pentecostal Christians, and perhaps some traditional denominations (not sure), have theologies that are steeped in the notion of Jews being a chosen people, or more specifically of Hebrews being a chosen race or children of the covenant--Abraham's covenant with God. This notion is now quite central to Pentecostalism and Evangelicalism because people in these branches of Christianity see themselves as heirs to, inheritors of, spiritual descendants of Abraham, and thus beneficiaries of Abraham's covenant with God, which birthed the notion of Jewish chosenness in the first place. In other words, the notion of chosenness is now quite elastic, amenable to theological postulations beyond Judaic theologies. You could say that some Christians have appropriated it for themselves but that would only capture a part of the reality since the Pentecostal/Evangelical notion of chosenness actually encompasss both the old jewish idea of it and the more capacious, recent Christian rendering of it.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/DM5PR12MB24562EEEE8971CEC49CA4510DA4B0%40DM5PR12MB2456.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.

Gloria Emeagwali

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Aug 5, 2020, 10:33:08 PM8/5/20
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Thank you for this, Moses.

In fact I went beyond the theological as well,  by including concepts of manifest destiny, or Tutsi or Hutu or Afrikaner  exceptionalism  as well.
 Genocide comes from the people claiming exceptionalism and  affects those who become their victims. I was shocked to see the direction that Ken took this into. This was an irresponsible distortion that  you don’t see often in his posts.

Africa as a whole has to fight exceptionalism, which may show
up in the form of “tribalism” as well. I expected Ken, being a human rights activist, to understand this important point.


Gloria Emeagwali

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 5, 2020, at 19:30, Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com> wrote:



Harrow, Kenneth

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Aug 5, 2020, 10:33:08 PM8/5/20
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i missed the initial rasta song she was citing. what i read of gloria's posting pointed, i thought, to a specific people.
if she meant it as you describe it, that's another story, and i am grateful to you for this clarification. it helps.
meanwhile, i specified that the reformist branches of judaism eschew chosenness; but i doubt the orthodox or ultraorthodox do. in truth, i have very very little exchanges or knowledge of their positions, and deliberately keep as far away as i can, as i find their literal reading of scripture hard to tolerate. i am sure cornelius has far greater knowledge of the orthodox: they are dominant in europe, but here much less so, except in brooklyn
thanks moses
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Moses Ebe Ochonu <meoc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 4:58 PM
To: USAAfricaDialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Aug 8, 2020, 5:18:52 PM8/8/20
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Ken. 

I agree with you that people generally want to see themselves as better than other people and the Jews are not unique in this.  

They wrote these  in a religion meant only for their own vonsumption but popularised by Pauls conversion and globalised by the Roman empire.  Freudian psychoanalysis supports this view of human nature.  It had been the basis of my endless disagreements with Biko Agozino on this forum always trying to compare how the Igbo and Yoruba do things with with implied suggestion that the Igbo ways are better.

Any one who does not like the chosenness of the Jews in the Bible does not have to read the Bible or be a Christian.  That is why some are now following their own traditional religions.  The Old Testament was written first and foremost for the Jews to galvanise them to greater achievements.


OAA



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 05/08/2020 21:18 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology

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gloria
chosen-ism was a major factor in anti-semitism in europe. the two millenia of hatred against jews stemmed in large measure from christian hatred of their co-monotheistic faith, and sense that it challenged their own faith.
jews were blamed for killing and sacrificing babies, drinking blood, etc. it's right there in chaucer; in shakespeare even in the pound of flesh.
i think that arguing against it today is to argue against something that is not current in jewish identity or religion, so why do so? jews are presumably uniquely evil, if i follow your point. i would argue they are not different from other people. certainly the idea of being chosen was destroyed for jews by the holocaust because why would god have permitted such a thing to his people? that would be how most felt after the holocaust, and in fact israel was founded by people who favored secularism, partly due to the discrediting of any notion of "chosenness."
lastly, despite your argument that jewish chosenness is different, i disagree. the notion of superiority of a people, say tutsis or yoruba or any other group, was not really different from jews in their sense of themselves as a community.

most people, in the end, see their groups as superior. i think it is a feature of human nature to see one's self or group as different, and in the difference, better. "we do it this way; you do it that way" and unstated, but believed: "ours is the right way."

we live in an age that some view as privileging diversity, not chosenness. maybe that will help improve human society, if we can convince people of this value.
k

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:08 PM

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Aug 8, 2020, 8:11:01 PM8/8/20
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a small addendum here.
most jews, i'd say at least 50% anyway, are married to non-jews. the only jews for whom superiority and chosenness are features are the orthodox. i don't know their values in europe, just here in the states, and most of them are, in fact, holed up in brooklyn.
so when we talk about jews, like talking about nigerians, it makes little sense without really knowing who they are and what they believe.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 5:17 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
 

Obododimma Oha

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Aug 8, 2020, 10:42:14 PM8/8/20
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I am a bit confused by this thread, although Prof. Emeagwali explained that it started as a response to rastafarianism and a particular song. A dangerous claim truly, being chosen is behind Christian and Islamic teachings. 

Specifically in Nigeria, "Chosen Christians" are a definite born-again group led by a man who is originally from our town. "Chosen" is already growing as a mega church. 

So, apart from the rastafarian slant, it is a loud Christian born-again identity in Nigeria. 

--- Obododimma. 


On Sunday, August 9, 2020, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
a small addendum here.
most jews, i'd say at least 50% anyway, are married to non-jews. the only jews for whom superiority and chosenness are features are the orthodox. i don't know their values in europe, just here in the states, and most of them are, in fact, holed up in brooklyn.
so when we talk about jews, like talking about nigerians, it makes little sense without really knowing who they are and what they believe.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu


Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 5:17 PM

Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
Well the Rastas will argue that they 
underwent “bad treatment “ and so, too the Tutsis and the Black South Africans but that does not give them the right to 
call themselves “chosen”. I admire several 
aspects of Rastafarian philosophy but
I reserve the right to criticize those aspects of their world view that seem
questionable to me. “Chosen people” ideology is a great political 
strategy but to elevate it into some kind of absolutist spiritual theory is counterproductive because once you argue that you are “chosen” you 
fall into the exceptionalism trap that could justify the same kind of atrocities that led you there.  I was surprised that you linked
“Chosen-ism” to  holocaust responses, Ken. That was far from my thinking.

G

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 13:42 Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:
many jews to today renounce the epithet "chosen," probably for reasons similar to what you cite, gloria. in our liturgy the wording about chosenness is changed, especially in reconstructionist judaism here in the states. perhaps cornelius might tell us better about european, which is more orthodox.
after the holocaust, most jews felt bitter about the notion of chosenness. for some, the wording in the bible led jews to think it meant being a light unto other peoples. but faith in any special designation, after the holocaust, had to be replaced by bitterness.
how its adaptation by rastas worked out is another matter. but i think you should temper your thinking about what it means for jews of today, especially after having faced total extermination in the time of their grandparents, or parents.
i agree it becomes used instrumentally by israeli nationalists to justify the state of israel, and an excuse for their bad treatment of palestinians. i find that reprehensible. but not all jews agree with me on that point.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu


Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:39 AM

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
what was this thread in response to? i see gloria quoting some posting, but only that one line.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu


Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:39 AM

Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
“The word has been used to describe one of God’s chosen people....”


“Chosen people” ideology is actually
detrimental and counter productive
in that it could even endorse genocide. It is an innovative geopolitical strategy
sometimes cloaked in theological garments, designed to rally the troops and energize communities, but it could even lead to Rwanda - like genocidal situations. It is built on
platforms of narcissism and even
triumphalism,  as seen in policies such as “Manifest Destiny”of the US, and even South African apartheid.

No people  on planet 🌏
earth have ever been specially chosen
except in imaginary reconstructions and geopolitical strategic modeling.
No one expects a  supreme being to be a supporter of apartheid, old and new - with due respect to the Abrahamic theological edifice.

GE

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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Aug 8, 2020, 10:42:40 PM8/8/20
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Yes I meant the orthodox plus the new orthodox Pentecostals and Evangelicals who are Jewish by proxy as Moses explains.

OAA



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 09/08/2020 01:16 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology

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a small addendum here.
most jews, i'd say at least 50% anyway, are married to non-jews. the only jews for whom superiority and chosenness are features are the orthodox. i don't know their values in europe, just here in the states, and most of them are, in fact, holed up in brooklyn.
so when we talk about jews, like talking about nigerians, it makes little sense without really knowing who they are and what they believe.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2020 5:17 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - ‘Chosen people’ ideology
 

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