Ukraine @September 22

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Gloria Emeagwali

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Sep 23, 2022, 12:52:47 AM9/23/22
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Sep 23, 2022, 8:36:31 AM9/23/22
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A horrible story.

thanks for sharing.

the Ukrainians are making history.

who are the people, if any,  avoiding a diplomatic solution, Russia or Ukraine and her allies?

thanks

toyin



On Fri, 23 Sept 2022 at 05:52, Gloria Emeagwali <gloria.e...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Sep 23, 2022, 1:48:45 PM9/23/22
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this was the quote from putin that set off my reflections:
  • “In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff,” Putin said in a televised address.

by "our country" he means a country he invaded.
that's call double speak, like that we expected from the old soviet union
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 11:44 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ukraine @September 22
 
A few thoughts.
i think there are basics. putin's russia invaded ukraine, and then rationalized it by blaming ukraine, nazis, nato, the west.
he was right that the west did not want to stop east european nations from turning to the west. but he was wrong in not turning himself and seeking to join europe.
he was wrong in favoring autocratic regimes, like assad's, over democratic regimes.
lastly, he is wrong in threatening all of us in the world by stating his willingness to use nuclear weapons to get his way.

how could anyone at this point pretend to know who is responsible for this war continuing? we are not privy to whatever exchanges between ukraine and russia are taking place.
so we can imagine.
putin doesn't want to lose, much less lose face, and will insist on at least getting donbas and the south, including crimea.
maybe ukraine imagines the tide is turning in their favor and want to drive a harder bargain, and don't believe in the dangers of nuclear weapons, or any other weapons.

as an outsider, it is easy for me to say that he should yield at least somewhat to end the war.
we don't really know more, don't know what biden wants, don't know how far macron or erdegan have gotten in negotiations, how much the europeans are willing to pay for the loss of russian natural gas, how much food the rest of the world will be losing, how the longterm results of this might be.

my last thoughts are that we have seen some horrible conflicts in the past couple of decades, including syria, libya, yemen, and now ethiopia. perhaps worst of all, the continuing conflict in east congo. not nearly enough human resources, united nations authority, comes into play to end these situations, or to mitigate the struggles involving immigration, that drive the rightwing politics everyone. a new world order is needed, as putin has made clear to all.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 1:16 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ukraine @September 22
 

Harrow, Kenneth

unread,
Sep 23, 2022, 1:48:45 PM9/23/22
to usaafricadialogue
A few thoughts.
i think there are basics. putin's russia invaded ukraine, and then rationalized it by blaming ukraine, nazis, nato, the west.
he was right that the west did not want to stop east european nations from turning to the west. but he was wrong in not turning himself and seeking to join europe.
he was wrong in favoring autocratic regimes, like assad's, over democratic regimes.
lastly, he is wrong in threatening all of us in the world by stating his willingness to use nuclear weapons to get his way.

how could anyone at this point pretend to know who is responsible for this war continuing? we are not privy to whatever exchanges between ukraine and russia are taking place.
so we can imagine.
putin doesn't want to lose, much less lose face, and will insist on at least getting donbas and the south, including crimea.
maybe ukraine imagines the tide is turning in their favor and want to drive a harder bargain, and don't believe in the dangers of nuclear weapons, or any other weapons.

as an outsider, it is easy for me to say that he should yield at least somewhat to end the war.
we don't really know more, don't know what biden wants, don't know how far macron or erdegan have gotten in negotiations, how much the europeans are willing to pay for the loss of russian natural gas, how much food the rest of the world will be losing, how the longterm results of this might be.

my last thoughts are that we have seen some horrible conflicts in the past couple of decades, including syria, libya, yemen, and now ethiopia. perhaps worst of all, the continuing conflict in east congo. not nearly enough human resources, united nations authority, comes into play to end these situations, or to mitigate the struggles involving immigration, that drive the rightwing politics everyone. a new world order is needed, as putin has made clear to all.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Oluwatoyin Adepoju <ovde...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2022 1:16 AM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Ukraine @September 22
 

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Sep 24, 2022, 5:45:22 AM9/24/22
to USA Africa Dialogue Series

On Facebook,  Tariq Ali  has an interesting ongoing discussion about Ukraine

If Shakespeare had been reporting for the BBC today, I guess he would still describe the trajectory as “ The primrose path to the everlasting bonfire”..

Most worrying - especially for those of us who live in Europe, is the latest from Information Clearing House. 

Enough to send shivers down anybody’s spine: Russia is not Bluffing - Putin (About 11,000,000 in 0.64 seconds)

.” and into ashes, all my lust” (through nuclear annihilation)




On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 06:52:47 UTC+2 Gloria Emeagwali wrote:
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