Barewa

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Jibrin Ibrahim

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Mar 23, 2021, 11:33:20 AM3/23/21
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Barewa College and Civics: Do young Nigerians know that Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

 Jibrin Ibrahim

Newsdairyonline August 16, 2018  

Two weeks ago, 32 of us met in Zaria to commemorate our first reunion that cold day of 5th January 1968 as the new intake of Barewa College Zaria. There were 132 of us in the set of 1968. So far, 35 of us have transitioned to the next world. In our conversations on the departed ones, it turned out that most of them died in road accidents over the 50-year period. Surviving in Nigeria is a lottery and so many of us die early due to completely avoidable accidents. We reflected on changing times. In 1968, we were in the middle of one of the most bloody civil wars in Nigerian history. Nonetheless, most of us were simply directed to the motor park without any escort and took lorries and busses from our provinces to Zaria and on to the school. Fifty years later, many of us were apprehensive about going to Zaria due to the multiple conflicts in our provinces. Those from Adamawa, Sardauna and Bornu provinces spoke of the persistence of the insurgency in the North east. Friends from Plateau and Benue provinces were concerned about inter-communal conflicts and the pastoral challenge they face. The members from Sokoto, Zaria and Katsina provinces recounted stories of their communities being sucked into rural banditry while travellers from Kano, Kabba, Ilorin and Niger provinces said they too are no longer safe. The last hurdle was of course the Abuja-Kaduna crossing where everyone had the fear of kidnappers on their mind.

I had not seen some of my class mates since we went our various ways after the WAEC exams in 1972 and some of them looked very old. Maybe that was my brain telling me that I am getting old myself. We used the Golden Jubilee celebration to launch improvements to the school facilities sponsored by the Class of 1968 as we had been agonising for a long time on how dilapidated the school had become. One thing that surprised me was when some of my mates told the principal that they never came back for the school certificates. Within ten minutes, the principal was able to give all of them their certificates. It was good to see that all our files are still intact.

One of the greatest influences in our lives has been the broad introduction we had to comparative religious education in Barewa College. This was through daily readings in assembly from: “A Book of Prayers and Readings.” In 1958, the Northern Nigerian Governmentpublished the book for use in mixed assemblies of Muslim and Christian students. In his Forward to the book, Minister of Education Aliyu Makama made the important point that:

“Both Muslims and Christians are <people of the Book> and it is myearnest prayer and hope that from this book of Prayers and Readings the younger generation in particular may learn the vital truth that the things which unite us are far more important than the things that divide us.”

The daily readings created in us the realization that our religions have the same values and that everyone that respect their religion must also respect other religions that draw from the same belief and value pool. It is this education about comparative religion that is missing in Nigeria today and we have so many young people who lack education in their own religion and their ignorance pushed them into the belief that the other religion is the enemy whose adherents must be killed. The book taught us about the unity of God.

THE UNITY OF GOD

God is One, the Ancient of days: Eternal, having no beginning: Everlasting, having no end, continuing for evermore. He is the First and the Last, Whose wisdom extendeth over all. He cannot be likened to anything else that exists, nor is anything like unto Him, nor is He contained by the earth or the heavens, for He is exalted far above the earth and the dust thereof.

AL GHAZALI

I am the first and I am the last, and beside me there is no God.

ISAIAH

Stand up and bless the Lord your God from everlasting to everlasting: and blessed be Thy glorious Name, which is exalted above all blessing and praise. Thou art the Lord, even Thou alone; Thou hast made heaven and the heaven of heavens, with all their host; the earth, and all the things that are therein; the seas and all that is in them; and Thou preservest them all and the host of heaven worship Thee.

NEHEMIAH

GOD’S LOVE FOR MAN: MAN’S OF GOD

Readings:

Ere he made us He loved us, and when we were made we loved Him.

JULIAN OF NORWICH

Who so knows God, loves Him, and who so loves Him He makes to dwell with Him, and whom He makes to dwell with Him, blessed is he, yea blessed.

AL MUHASIBI

RELIANCE UPON GOD

Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so cloth the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? Or, What shall we drink? Or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? But seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1.     MATHEW’S GOSPEL

If ye rely upon God as He ought to be relied on, He will provide you as He provides the birds; they go out empty and hungry in the morning and come back big-bellied at eventide.

UMAR (T.I)

PRAYER

Ask and thou shalt be given it.

IBNI MASUD (T.I)

Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you.

ST MATHEW’S GOSPEL

THE SPIRITUAL COMBAT

Readings:

In the field of this body a great war goes forward against passion, anger, pride and greed; it is in the kingdom of truth, contentment and purity that this battle is ragging and the sword that rings forth most loudly is the sword of His Name. It is a hard fight and a weary one, this fight of the truth seeker, for the truth seeker’s battle goes on day and night; as long as life lasts it never ceases.

KABIR

Know you not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the price? So run that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things, now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown, but we an incorruptible. I therefore run not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air; but I keep under my body and bring it into subjection, lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

ST PAUL

HUMILITY AND PENITENCE

Prayers:

My God, of Thy mercy forgive me my sins. O Lord, through my sinful deeds make me fear Thy justice, yet the greatness of Thy compassion makes me hope in Thee. O Lord, I have not merited Paradise by my deeds, and I cannot endure the pains of Hell, so I entrust myself simply to Thy grace. Wash me from my sins; give me the hope of redeemed and in Thy mercy cast me not away from Thy presence.

YAHAYA B. MADH-EL-RAZI

Wash me thoroughly from my wickedness, and cleanse me from my sins; cast me not away from Thy presence, and take Thy Holy Spirit from me.

PSALMS

THE VALUE OF KNOWLEDGE

Wisdom is glorious and never fadeth away; yea, she is easily seen of them that love her, and found of them that seek her. She goeth before them that desire her, in making herself first known unto them. Whoso seeketh her early shall have no great travail, for he shall find her sitting at his doors.

WISDOM OF SOLOMON

Knowledge is to the mind as a lamp to the eye, and as the light of the sun to the sight. Knowledge was given to man by God, so that his reason, making use therefore, might enable him to realise how the darkness of ignorance veils him from the remembrance of the next world and the regard of his Lord upon him.

AL MUHASIBI

My prayer today is that state ministries of education should look up this book of readings and prayers and use it or a similar instrument to teach the younger generation what we learnt – that Christianity and Islam draw from the same principles and value pool. Let it be known that the greatest ignorance is Christians and Muslims killing themselves in “gods” name. Knowledge is knowing it’s the same God that we worship.

 

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

Oluwatoyin Adepoju

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Mar 23, 2021, 11:55:00 AM3/23/21
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Sublime.

Please allow me to add this Twi expression from the religion of the Akan of Ghana-

“Abode santann yi firi tete;obi nte ase a onim ahyease, na obi ntena ae nkosi ne awie, Gye Nyame” “This great panorama of creation dates back to time immemorial; no one lives who saw its beginning and no one will live to see its end, except Nyame.”

It is part of the Adinkra texts of visual and correlative verbal symbolism.

thanks

toyin




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Toyin Falola

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Mar 23, 2021, 11:57:15 AM3/23/21
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Jibrin:

You are talking about the God we don’t see, Allah the beneficent, the omnipotent, the immanent and the merciful. My people understand this, and I am not sure this is the one they are fighting over. The tetragrammaton is not in charge of conflicts!

 

But they are fighting over the God we see: men who are our gods, our gods of money, our gods of power, with the dark triad—sadism, narcissism, egoism.

 

Your essay, I am afraid, cannot be about the God we don’t see, but the Gods we see.

I went to a madrasa as a young boy—the prophet does not like money; the prophet is humble, walking with his head down; the prophet was agonized (similar to how the Gospel of John described Jesus), even crying and begging God for His mercy. When next you see me, ask me to read to you

 

“It is by God’s mercy that you are gentle to them; and had you been harsh and hardhearted, surely they would have scattered from around you. So excuse them, and plead for forgiveness for them, and consult them in the affairs, and once you are resolved, put your trust in God. Indeed God loves those who trust in Him” [Quran 3:159]”.

 

The prophet was talking about people.

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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 23, 2021, 2:55:43 PM3/23/21
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The first error is to posit that it is the same God that we worship.

Youths of today are more sophisticated in their thinking and they know that the Gods of Islam and Christianity are similar, they are NOT the same.  What of other non- monotheistic Gods?

This book has therefore outlived it's usefulness and a new book should be put together to emphasise the pluralism and hererogendered nature of Godhead to teach mutual respect among the youths.


OAA



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Date: 23/03/2021 15:46 (GMT+00:00)
To: 'chidi opara reports' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Jibrin Ibrahim

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:16:30 AM3/24/21
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Of course there are different Gods but for Jews, Christians and Muslims, THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, i am told.

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

Jibrin Ibrahim

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Mar 24, 2021, 5:22:27 AM3/24/21
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Falola

To go back to Marxist language the only really existing God is the one we see so I agree with you that's what guides action. My point is that these actions are in contradiction with their enunciated principles and we should point it out.

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 24, 2021, 11:47:55 AM3/24/21
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Oga Jibrin:

For the three faiths there is one God but that one God is NOT the SAME for the trio.

The character of Yahweh ( or Yashem as Oga Cornelius teaches us) is different from that of Allah and Jews will be cross if you told them they might as well pray to Allah.

If the character of the Christian God can be substituted for that of Allah then what was all the blood letting in the Crusades about?


Again if the Muslims and the Christians pray to one and the SAME god, there wouldn't be all the contemporary fracas over the Temple Mount and the intifada.

We rely on you as a graduate of Barewa College and member of BOBA to spearhead the changes in that philosophy of religion propagated to current students to reflect that it is  fit for purpose for the current evolutionary change in Nigeria today which is different from the 1921 focus of Barewa.  

As Bishop Kukah acknowledged in the zoom interview, the Nigerian state of today has evolved beyond the scope of conception at independence and a major part of the problem is those in charge of government are using a blueprint of governance no longer fit for purpose.  Nigeria is not a religious duopoly and people in position of influence should not pander to governments around the country discriminating in favour of  two minority religions ( no matter the aggressive membership drive)  against the majority of indigenous religions around the country.

In fact governments around the country ( both states and federal) should be sued for this propensity since independence.


OAA



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From: Jibrin Ibrahim <jibrinib...@gmail.com>
Date: 24/03/2021 09:29 (GMT+00:00)
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Of course there are different Gods but for Jews, Christians and Muslims, THERE IS BUT ONE GOD, i am told.
Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 at 19:55, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:

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Jibrin Ibrahim

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Mar 24, 2021, 12:35:32 PM3/24/21
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OAA

My point is that the three religions share the same prophets, philosophy and core theology but I agree they are not identical. 

Professor Jibrin Ibrahim
Senior Fellow
Centre for Democracy and Development, Abuja
Follow me on twitter @jibrinibrahim17

Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Mar 24, 2021, 9:10:47 PM3/24/21
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I am not so sure about  the three religions
sharing core theology. In Islam
 and Judaism Jesus is not divine and definitely  not
a son of God but just another human or 
messenger. The  role of Jesus in
Christianity borders on  cultism,  in the view
of  some Muslims and followers of Judaism.

The Trinity concept is also rejected by two 
of the religions. 

You don’t have images, Caucasian 
or not plastered on the walls or erected
within the place of worship if you are a 
Muslim. Now I may have to eat my words
in terms of some sects of Islam in the Sahel.

Water purification rites are there in
Islam but not in Christianity. 
The calendar Is  about 622 years apart,
between Islam and Christianity.
The Christian Pope has some kind of infallibility
 that does not exist in Islam or Judaism- as
far as I know.

Two of these religions seem to be highly 
misogynistic in their fundamentalist  form. 
One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse
lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion
dollars in penalties / settlements thus far 
in the US alone.

But in the final analysis the best person 
to enlighten us on this issue  is Cornelius,
 the Wise and I hope he shares his insider
Knowledge  and erudition with us.



Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Mar 25, 2021, 7:10:54 AM3/25/21
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This is so deliberately provocative that it must be the misogynist he-devil or anti-Semitic she-devil that must be at work here, causing you to write that it is a religion itself per se and not a lapsed or “fallen” adherent of any such religion/ way of life that you are wrongfully accusing when you say that “One of them is heavily implicated in sex abuse lawsuits and has paid about 3 billion dollars in penalties / settlements thus far  in the US alone.”

Your sole aim is to discredit a religion and to promote some discussion.

Of relevance to those who see some of what Judaism and Islam have in common - namely Judaic elements borrowed and adapted by Islam, including some of the Judaic myths, legends and midrashic stories in the Quran.

Interesting too, Judaism and Islam by Erwin I. J. Rosenthal and of course Jewish Views on Islam and some of the interesting differences with regard to what Islam says about Jesus (no crucifixion and no resurrection – the centrepiece of Christianity) especially in the light of sceptics such as Bart Ehrman and the aggressive Kenneth Humphreys views on Jesus

As you may not be aware, blessed are they who were not there and yet believe.

“Blessed are they who have not seen and yet believe.”

 I know that  Don Harrow is the best person on this matter with his vast experience of  Islam in North Africa. 

Please carryon with your discussion;. 

Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Mar 25, 2021, 7:56:10 AM3/25/21
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Let me add that of the three religions
Judaism seems to be the more rational
to me, although the three are implicated
in cultural imperialistic activities.

The three seem to have the concept of
devilry and  sin, unlike many African and
Asian religions, and original sin seems to be
crucial in one of them. With Islam you have
no burden to bear though once you commit 
to the religion and so the original sin concept
is almost null and void.


Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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Harrow, Kenneth

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Mar 25, 2021, 12:28:11 PM3/25/21
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dear all, when i think of religion and how to define it, i would have say it is mostly meaningful in how it is practised. in that regard, each of these religions has enormously wide variations in practices. between the ultra-orthodox in judaism, and the reform or reconsructionist variations it is really day to night differences, and even scorn or worse. but in general jews do not proselatize, as the other two faiths do.

between sufi islam and legalistic islam it also has been such hatred and violence as to eliminate the one version (often enough sufi or brotherhood versions) from salafi or other branches, esp in the saudi peninsula. and so on. under the cover of islam saudi sunnis and persian shiites fight it out. look at the ongoing war in yemen, the conflicts in the middle east, with these two protagonists.

and between catholics, protestants, unitarians, evangelicals is also a huge gulf. wars of religion for centuries; wholesale inquisitions and oppression. wars against muslims and expulsion of jews and muslims etc. the history couldn't be uglier. but that's only part of the story.

how to generalize?
much of judaism is practiced not through acts of faith as much as what is called tsedaka, like charity of arabic, sadaq.
i think of both islam and judaism lean in the direction of actions more than faith. for many jews it is adherence to the culture of a community, with no faith at all for probably half--secular jews. the fanatics of both judaism and islam, ultraorthodox or islamists, are really the curse of our religions since they are willing to go to war against non-believers, willing to condemn women to inferior status, to condone vile acts against people as if they were gods themselves, as if they had god's ear, as if they knew what god would want.

but christianity has lots of charity, lots of emphasize on good acts, like the other two; but perhaps more tied into acts of faith, talk about faith etc etc. i think evangelicals would tie faith to prosperity more than the other branches; would emphasize success in the here and now, whereas calvanists would lean more to fatalism and the hereafter.

where is god in all this? these religions profess a common god, a common source or origin, and the notion of a high god in african religions was often marked by efforts, like mbiti's, to reconcile african beliefs with christian faith. i think that is the wrong approach. rather, i would ask how each religion reflected the social structures, validated the dominant values and dominant forces in each case. that's a materialist view of religion, which i share.

lastly, without any effort we all could cite the worst of human tendencies in each of these religions, and we could also cite the beautiful and ineffable. that is not inherent in these religions, but in their adherents. if we abolished these religions, all the slaughter and oppression they advocate would continue, under another heading, like Love of Nation or whatever. Likewise, we would have human creation and its beauties continue as well. it is part of how people organize the world. and to rationalize it, to justify it, to validate and give it dominance, they proclaim it to be handed to them by god.

well, we are all free to believe what we want. until the Believers take hold and impose their ways.
ken



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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Mar 25, 2021, 12:46:41 PM3/25/21
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The sex abuse lawsuits elegantly sidestepped as mortal humanity battles on. The salvific idea that Jesus has already died for all our sins must have something to do with such sexual transgressions, but the church continues to impose celibacy on the clergy so that the clergy ( the priests, the bishops and the nuns don’t start multiplying as their offspring would have to legally inherit their holdings on church property because this could lead to the gradual diminishing of the church's considerable financial assets in the kingdom of this world...

The baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch is very promising, that it happened immediately, whereas nowadays with The Eastern Orthodox Church it takes a while...

If only one had world enough and time one could looka here: The Pre-Nicene New Testament: Fifty-Four Formative Texts

I look forward to learning a lot from the experienced adherents of Christianity as they discuss Pastor Jibrin Ibrahim’s ideas. So far, my own very limited understanding is that even though the discussion is supposed to be focused on Christianity and al-Islam we cannot even begin a serious discussion without visiting the very foundations of those two separate religious developments arising from what is to be understood as the Prophetic tradition of the Hebrew Faith from which baby Jesus drew sustenance along with his mother’s milk, followed by Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, salallahu alaihi wa salaam who received his first revelation through the Angel Gabriel 610 years after the birth of Jesus.

Can Christianity or Islam exist, stand on their own two legs without reference or support from the Prophetic Tradition of Israel? Of course not, even if Christianity claims supersessionism and takes solace in replacement theology , whilst Muslims are confident that the houris are waiting for them in Paradise and that the Almighty Who Islam refers to as “Allah” is not going to accept any other religion but Islam as completed by Islam’s Last Prophet, salallahu alaihi wa salaam.

God forbid that I should run away from this kind of discussion. I’m not running away, it’s just that I ‘m really disinterested in arguing about such immaterial matters and any serious dissenter, rejecter or disbeliever could start by reasonably questioning the very foundations of Christianity which is most essentially based on the myth of the fall of man - that Adam sinned - and as Christian apologists are fond of quoting Genesis 3: 15 which states “And I shall place hatred between you and between the woman, and between your seed and between her seed. He will crush your head, and you will bite his heel " in support of their theory that “Jesus died for our sins” Galilean Judaism, or just plain “Judaism” which was the religion that Jesus was born into, has its own understandings of Genesis 3: 15 and it’s own understanding of Isaiah 53

Jonas Gardell is a comedian who has dabbled in queer theology and written a fascinating and immensely readable book “Om Jesus (About Jesus). The blurb introduces his book with this sobering conjecture : ”Most skeletons found from the time Jesus lived show a lack of iron and protein, skulls of forty-year-olds often have few or no teeth left. Life was hard and you died young. Only a minority got to experience their twenty-fifth birthday. We would like to see Jesus as a relatively young man, but when he started his business at about the age of thirty, he was rather one who had lived longer than most. We like to think of Jesus' gentle, loving smile. So now add that the smile was probably toothless and we will probably get a fairer picture. Can we imagine Jesus toothless? Can we imagine him uneducated? Very few of our notions of Jesus Christ agree with Joshua of Nazareth. A Jesus Christ rises before us as the King returning from heaven to judge the living and the dead. And in the periphery we see another figure fleeing into the shadows, a short and stocky, dark-skinned man aged prematurely by poverty and wandering. A simple craftsman from the Galilee countryside who the government executed for preventive purposes. A man who spread the message of the kingdom of God. Exciting? This is only the beginning! “

My own personal study of Christianity began with a guided tour of the so called New Testament – through The Jewish Annotated New Testament - which situates the birth of Christianity, the life of Jesus, the stories in the Gospels and letters of Paul and other Apostles in their proper historical and cultural context, supplemented by The Jerusalem Perspective on Jesus

Cornelius Hamelberg

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Mar 25, 2021, 1:06:53 PM3/25/21
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 One gets sick and tired how the Islamophobes want to characterize Islam as terrorism’s religion.

Bishop Krister Stendahl ‘s three rules of religious understanding and Professor Kenneth Harrow’s non-aggressive summation of how it is, with his own emphasis on Sufism should help us safely on our way to peace and tranquillity.in this discussion 

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 25, 2021, 1:07:00 PM3/25/21
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Well, lets first start by deconstructing 'rational'.  All religions are irrational ( never mind that there is such a construct as Christian Science)

Yes, Catholicism was the guardian of accepted knowledge, including pilfered secrets of Ptolemaic Egypt, ( and that was why Okigbo's protagonist made all that journey back to Egypt) until the Copernican / Galileo scientific revolution which almost threw the latter into Hell and eternal damnation but for the fact telescopes dont lie: what you see is what you get.  And so Catholicism expropriated the knowledge and the world was no longer flat.

But all religions are irrational in that they use the explicable to explain the inexplicable, the worst of which is the notion of existence of Gods.  If you say Judaism is more rational its relative.

Not only are the three Abrahamic faiths culturally imperialistic, they set forth on that journey from the intra-culturally hegemonic by subsuming rivals by Darwinian violence, which started in Egypt( we have been here before) was curtailed before its recrudescence ( again see the allegory of the prophets of Baal in the Bible) that holds all in thrall till today in schisms to re-figure the one and only one, replicating violence across the globe, and burying the countervailing democratic credentials of the several Godheads on each other ( and the political headship) in favour of the one and instituting more violence in a bid to hijack the one, for political hegemony.

Devilry and ( original/ derivatory)  Sin?  Eschatological means of control!  Ask Ezeulu of Umuaro about the abortive ploy of the new yam before its late  recrudescence in the more permanent ploy of the word ' Chineke.' ( And the Ezeulu incarnate has the last laugh on the Ndigbo, making the colonisers work easier.)


OAA



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From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@ccsu.edu>
Date: 25/03/2021 12:02 (GMT+00:00)
To: cornelius...@gmail.com, USA Africa DialogueSeries <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Let me add that of the three religions
Judaism seems to be the more rational
to me, although the three are implicated
in cultural imperialistic activities.

The three seem to have the concept of
devilry and  sin, unlike many African and
Asian religions, and original sin seems to be
crucial in one of them. With Islam you have
no burden to bear though once you commit 
to the religion and so the original sin concept
is almost null and void.


Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Mar 25, 2021, 2:51:18 PM3/25/21
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Strange things happening : I did not provide a link to ”tranquillity” in my last post and don’t know how it got there. I’m not related to savant/ acquired savant or alcoholism ( my half a litre of Cointreau is unopened and so is my 70cl Loch Lomond  and four cans of beer )

Hopefully, this link will will mot disappear as if my magic :  replacement theology 

 I wish all the religious people what they wish for themselves 

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 25, 2021, 3:42:49 PM3/25/21
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Ken.

Well put.  No one quarrels with secular Jews, many of whom may not be recognised as Jews, because there is no outward dress codes observed,until people castigate Jews in their presence and they are shocked they have shot themselves in the foot.

It is those who want to enforce a written code made for a particular period of development for all times, violently that are the issue.  They think because it was written down it must not be changed.  This in large part was what informed Derrida's notion of violence of the letter:  'You have no written religion you have no religion'; those who have written religions must enforce its tenets against others for all time.  

And that is where colonialism comes in with the enforcement of a Papal Bull, which even African lettered intellectuals carry on today as a form of evangelised neo- colonialism i.e. defending by all guises what was used to carry their ancestors into captivity and slavery and the Muslim intellectual elites try to match them in this race.

It is that structure that it is  only the worship of one God that can be right and it's dated written commands must be carried out at all costs that is behind most of the legitimised violence. Violent Schisms are only a subtext of this mind set that says only an interpretation can be right to the same God and the others must be violently quashed.


OAA



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-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 25/03/2021 16:35 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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dear all, when i think of religion and how to define it, i would have say it is mostly meaningful in how it is practised. in that regard, each of these religions has enormously wide variations in practices. between the ultra-orthodox in judaism, and the reform or reconsructionist variations it is really day to night differences, and even scorn or worse. but in general jews do not proselatize, as the other two faiths do.

between sufi islam and legalistic islam it also has been such hatred and violence as to eliminate the one version (often enough sufi or brotherhood versions) from salafi or other branches, esp in the saudi peninsula. and so on. under the cover of islam saudi sunnis and persian shiites fight it out. look at the ongoing war in yemen, the conflicts in the middle east, with these two protagonists.

and between catholics, protestants, unitarians, evangelicals is also a huge gulf. wars of religion for centuries; wholesale inquisitions and oppression. wars against muslims and expulsion of jews and muslims etc. the history couldn't be uglier. but that's only part of the story.

how to generalize?
much of judaism is practiced not through acts of faith as much as what is called tsedaka, like charity of arabic, sadaq.
i think of both islam and judaism lean in the direction of actions more than faith. for many jews it is adherence to the culture of a community, with no faith at all for probably half--secular jews. the fanatics of both judaism and islam, ultraorthodox or islamists, are really the curse of our religions since they are willing to go to war against non-believers, willing to condemn women to inferior status, to condone vile acts against people as if they were gods themselves, as if they had god's ear, as if they knew what god would want.

but christianity has lots of charity, lots of emphasize on good acts, like the other two; but perhaps more tied into acts of faith, talk about faith etc etc. i think evangelicals would tie faith to prosperity more than the other branches; would emphasize success in the here and now, whereas calvanists would lean more to fatalism and the hereafter.

where is god in all this? these religions profess a common god, a common source or origin, and the notion of a high god in african religions was often marked by efforts, like mbiti's, to reconcile african beliefs with christian faith. i think that is the wrong approach. rather, i would ask how each religion reflected the social structures, validated the dominant values and dominant forces in each case. that's a materialist view of religion, which i share.

lastly, without any effort we all could cite the worst of human tendencies in each of these religions, and we could also cite the beautiful and ineffable. that is not inherent in these religions, but in their adherents. if we abolished these religions, all the slaughter and oppression they advocate would continue, under another heading, like Love of Nation or whatever. Likewise, we would have human creation and its beauties continue as well. it is part of how people organize the world. and to rationalize it, to justify it, to validate and give it dominance, they proclaim it to be handed to them by god.

well, we are all free to believe what we want. until the Believers take hold and impose their ways.
ken


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Harrow, Kenneth

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Mar 25, 2021, 6:30:44 PM3/25/21
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olayinka
people enforcing their codes on other people is truly obscene.
since roman times jews have not had a nation or power to enforce codes onto others, until now with israel. even there, the orthodox impose their codes, like kosher rules or shabbat rules, on others within the country. but they couldn't care less about non-jewish observance, thinking

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu


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To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
 

Harrow, Kenneth

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Mar 25, 2021, 6:31:14 PM3/25/21
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olayinka
people enforcing their codes on other people is truly obscene.
since roman times jews have not had a nation or power to enforce codes onto others, until now with israel. even there, the orthodox impose their codes, like kosher rules or shabbat rules, on others within the country. but they couldn't care less about non-jewish observance, thinking the blessings go with themselves, those who observe the rules. jews do not proselytize.
but even when christians did proselytize, the conquest  was the fundamental issue, i believe. they came and conquered, and incidentally converted.
muslims converted without real proselytizing; but when central africa came under muslim control, the enslaved people were often impeded from converting since muslims were taught not to enslave fellow muslims.
who could not become cynical about religion under these circumstances?

you might think the expansion of belief in one god was at play; but conversions to any of these religions didn't stop all the wars and exploitation, didn't stop any of the historical abuses, since people will use religion to rationalize these practices, not really to end them. i don't blame religion or praise it: it is people who establish these practices, and then tell the world that was what god wanted.

if you removed "god" from the equation, that wouldn't stop the conquering, the exploitation, the abuses. it is people who act in what they think is their own interest, and rationalize it, often using religion.
ken

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 25, 2021, 6:31:29 PM3/25/21
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Never mind Oga Cornelius.

I have had my own teleprompter typing what I never intended to type.

Feel free to open your vintage and carouse gently and with moderation like yours truly only when you dont intend to go behind the wheel.


OAA



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-------- Original message --------
From: Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Date: 25/03/2021 18:52 (GMT+00:00)
To: USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

Strange things happening : I did not provide a link to ”tranquillity” in my last post and don’t know how it got there. I’m not related to savant/ acquired savant or alcoholism ( my half a litre of Cointreau is unopened and so is my 70cl Loch Lomond  and four cans of beer )

Hopefully, this link will will mot disappear as if my magic :  replacement theology 

 I wish all the religious people what they wish for themselves 



On Thursday, 25 March 2021 at 18:06:53 UTC+1 Cornelius Hamelberg wrote:

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 26, 2021, 6:19:17 AM3/26/21
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Ken

Our conclusions are not different.  Remove religion and people on behalf of whom others are conquered have scales fall from their eyes and cannot justify their evil intent.

In the UK for example the abolitionists used the argument to end slavery, but the freed slaves did not because of that change back to their old religions but used their freed status to work for the interests of those who freed them who are part of the society that enslaved them in the first instance till today and that is the core of my argument meaning they have 'seen the light' ( of civilization) and continue the game of spreading it among their own people for their principals.

My ancestral land was razed to the ground by the Fulani literally like thieves in the night just like the Almoravids did on ancient Ghana because both societies were seen as heathens and would not convert to Islamic monotheism peacefully.

Moses and his supporters conquered the ' promised land' by force of arms and 'post facto' justified their conquest by saying it was promised land by Yahweh ( this act of violent dispossession!)

What of Benin massacre by the English because the indigenes reacted to the despoliation of their rituals e.tc, etc?


OAA



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-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 25/03/2021 22:40 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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olayinka
people enforcing their codes on other people is truly obscene.
since roman times jews have not had a nation or power to enforce codes onto others, until now with israel. even there, the orthodox impose their codes, like kosher rules or shabbat rules, on others within the country. but they couldn't care less about non-jewish observance, thinking the blessings go with themselves, those who observe the rules. jews do not proselytize.
but even when christians did proselytize, the conquest  was the fundamental issue, i believe. they came and conquered, and incidentally converted.
muslims converted without real proselytizing; but when central africa came under muslim control, the enslaved people were often impeded from converting since muslims were taught not to enslave fellow muslims.
who could not become cynical about religion under these circumstances?

you might think the expansion of belief in one god was at play; but conversions to any of these religions didn't stop all the wars and exploitation, didn't stop any of the historical abuses, since people will use religion to rationalize these practices, not really to end them. i don't blame religion or praise it: it is people who establish these practices, and then tell the world that was what god wanted.

if you removed "god" from the equation, that wouldn't stop the conquering, the exploitation, the abuses. it is people who act in what they think is their own interest, and rationalize it, often using religion.
ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu


From: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2021 3:38 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
 



Ken.

Well put.  No one quarrels with secular Jews, many of whom may not be recognised as Jews, because there is no outward dress codes observed,until people castigate Jews in their presence and they are shocked they have shot themselves in the foot.

It is those who want to enforce a written code made for a particular period of development for all times, violently that are the issue.  They think because it was written down it must not be changed.  This in large part was what informed Derrida's notion of violence of the letter:  'You have no written religion you have no religion'; those who have written religions must enforce its tenets against others for all time.  

And that is where colonialism comes in with the enforcement of a Papal Bull, which even African lettered intellectuals carry on today as a form of evangelised neo- colonialism i.e. defending by all guises what was used to carry their ancestors into captivity and slavery and the Muslim intellectual elites try to match them in this race.

It is that structure that it is  only the worship of one God that can be right and it's dated written commands must be carried out at all costs that is behind most of the legitimised violence. Violent Schisms are only a subtext of this mind set that says only an interpretation can be right to the same God and the others must be violently quashed.


OAA



Sent from my Galaxy



-------- Original message --------
From: "Harrow, Kenneth" <har...@msu.edu>
Date: 25/03/2021 16:35 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Gloria Emeagwali

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Mar 26, 2021, 9:33:25 AM3/26/21
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The sad thing is that many “believers” use  religion as a cover to conceal  unjust and selfish behavior. Greed, and even pedophilia are covered up. Many of these “believers” are implicated in under compensating their workers and outright theft.They run to church, utter a few verses and feel psychologically protected from their systematic plunder

“We came here to serve god and get rich”said Bernal Diaz as he prepared to slaughter and steal the land of the non-Christian “Other” in the Americas. Victims of enslavement were treated to an “amazingly gracious”mea culpa religious song, instead of “reparative justice”- to quote Biko Agozino.

I disagree with Ken. Some of the theologies are structurally flawed.
I  identified the misogyny and militaristic language embedded in text, some months ago as have many other daredevils.

Now we are getting more information of atrocities in Canada and the United States of thousands of Indigenous children abducted from their families and systematically thrown into Church- run abusive residential  hostels. The Canada Residential Schools Settlement Agreement  of  2013, attempted to deal with some of the atrocities. More information is surfacing to date. The institutions were able to get away with criminality due to the unholy alliance of church and state,  and individuals trapped under the spell of irrational dogma.

Gloria Emeagwali

Biko Agozino

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Mar 26, 2021, 11:33:21 AM3/26/21
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Love your enemy as yourself because often you are your own worst enemy. When King David was cursing his enemies, he was actually cursing his family. He got his best general killed in order to steal his wife and his country was overrun by enemies; his sons gang-raped his daughter and he only wept; and when his handsome son deposed the senile old man he absolutely went to war against his son  Absalom and had him killed before covering himself with ash and sackcloth in shame. 

When a pastor asked a man to say the vengeful Psalm 35 against his enemies, the man told him that he prefers to say the Lord's Prayer, especially the part that says; forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, incidentally this is implied in Psalm 35 where David prayed for his enemies, including his son.

General Ironsi surrounded himself with Christian officers who did not hesitate to tie him to their military truck and drag him to death despite worshipping in the same church, never mind the same God; the British Government declared that the genocide against the Igbo was not a religious war because 70% of the genocidist military were Christians from the South and the Middle Belt; Shagari and the peasants of Bakalori Dam worshipped the same Allah but he gave them waka shege and Shagari and Buhari and idiagbon bowed down to the same Allah in the same Mosque and yet the dictators had no qualms deposing the elected; Babangida and Buhari belonged to the same Umma and yet B overthrew B and annulled the election of his Muslim bros, Abiola; Abacha pushed his Muslim brother aside to take over from the Christian stooge, Shonekan, before hanging Saro-Wiwa who must have converted to Islam to marry his Hausa wife; Obasanjo claims to be born again and yet visited hell fire upon the Christian town of Odi; and Boko Haram are busy kidnapping gwongworo loads of Muslim school boys and girls and sacking Muslim villages. 

Religion is the opiate of the people, the soul of soulless conditions and the heart of heartless situations. In the 1980s, Eskor Toyo led us to conduct a research project for MAMSER with a focus on the political manipulation of religion - case studies. Without mentioning Nigerias, we documented the evidence of the damage done by the politicization of religion around the world. But they no dey hear.

Gloria is right that religion is hypocritical but there is still wisdom in some religious teachings - forgiving and loving the enemy is also good for you because we are a bundle of humanity in Ubuntu, Mbari or the World House of MLK Jr. Africans forgive the unforgivable, said Derrida. The survivors of enslavement, colonialism, apartheid, and genocide in Africa are not seeking revenge. Learn from them and seek only reparative justice.

Biko

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Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Mar 26, 2021, 1:25:56 PM3/26/21
to 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series
Yes.I agree that there is wisdom in some religious
teachings ie  moral philosophy. There are also 
reprehensible, vindictive exhortations that
you really want to unlearn:


“Kill both man and woman, infant and nursing
 child,ox and sheep,” Saul was asked to do.
 Needless to say that you may lose your
 kingdom if you refuse to do genocide.


“Slay the idolaters wherever you find them”

Is that why a ten year old kid in
Mozambique lost his head last week?

For some of “the greatest hits”


“Violence in the Bible:Greatest Hits”




Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

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Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 11:06 AM
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Gloria Emeagwali

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Mar 26, 2021, 4:52:36 PM3/26/21
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Correction/Addition 

Needless to say that you may lose your kingdom if you refuse  to do genocide, according to Philip Jenkins, a professor at Penn State University.
Some of these examples are identified in his book “Jesus Wars.”




On Mar 26, 2021, at 13:25, Emeagwali, Gloria (History) <emea...@ccsu.edu> wrote:



Cornelius Hamelberg

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Mar 26, 2021, 10:00:35 PM3/26/21
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Lord Agbetuyi,


Re – Your premise “In the UK for example the abolitionists used the argument to end slavery, but the freed slaves did not because of that change back to their old religions...etc.

It should be interesting to examine your conjectures as to the conditions that mitigated against the lost generations of returnees not reverting to their ancestral religions, and why, on the contrary, e.g. Yoruba religion flourished and is flourishing worldwide on the South American continent, in Brazil, Cuba, other parts of the Caribbean, in the United States where where a good number of Roots- conscious African-Americans are fleeing from what they call the “Judgemental religions” to Yoruba religion in either an older original form or developed with syncretic accretions. I have Santeria friends from Cuba, here in Stockholm, trying to teach me ancient Yoruba incantations – you should see their altars. Talking about “ judgemental” here’s no a single Muslim that I know that wouldn’t react with just their one word: Mushrikeen!

Otherwise, the arguments you just tossed at Ken make for sad reading, cast shadows in the realm of the sorrowful and the regrettable. It’s not unlikely that the ghosts, the spiritual descendants and beneficiaries of the Church Missionary Society are either in tears or at work and down on their knees adding to their good deeds, this time ardently praying for your salvation which assuming that you are not already saved and need to be saved or redeemed, to begin with, can only be guaranteed by your sincere repentance, the change of heart, mind and stance that’s called for after saying the things that you just said. A change of heart from sounding like an ingrate to full acknowledgment of all the benefits that you have reaped and that you are still enjoy reaping thanks to the good works of the Church Missionary Society in Western Nigeria.

I daresay that if those missionaries had not been to that neck of what Trump would have called “the swamp” and produced men like Bishop Ajayi Crowther then there would probably have been no Chief Obafemi Awolowo the one that we know and most probably his universal education plan would not have taken off when it did or succeeded as it did. Without all that missionary activity in Abeokuta there would have been no Wole Soyinka and I daresay, no Toyin Falola, D. Litt either. And just in case you are reeling or re-coiling in your armchair and detest words likebenefits” as employed here, well, here are some of the benefits: You are welcomed as one of the high megawatt lightbulbs in the English Language Empire and thanks to that language you have read Defoe ‘s Robinson Crusoe and Kipling’s The Ballad of East and West, you can communicate with any Fulani speaker at Aso Rock or even Buckingham Place, or any part of the UK where you have, understandably chosen to live.

Those are some of the kinds of arguments that have been advanced by some of the recalcitrant who don’t want to dish out any reparations (e.g. in Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Slavery is a Bad Idea for Blacks—and Racist Too) and of course I fully anticipate the tenor of your response to all of the above.

I though about the Falola D. Litt earlier in the day in this imperial connection, part of a much larger discourse: “The Indian mind had walled itself up in such a prison that only a new language could give it a ladder of escape




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Cornelius Hamelberg

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To Lord Agbetuyi  ( continued) :

It's  interesting, isn't it, that among the returnees Edward Wilmot Blyden - another missionary product unarguably conferred with the title “The Father of Pan-Africanism” and a strong advocate of Islam as the most suitable religion for Africa according to his seminal “ Christianity, Islam and the Negro Race” and his numerous writings scattered all over the place. He apparently maintained this position although he himself never converted to Islam. Would Blyden have revised his advocacy of in view of latest developments? In my very humble opinion the best book about EWB is still Edward Wilmot Blyden : Pan-Negro Patriot 1832-1912 by Hollis R. Lynch

I’m especially thinking of the returnees to Freetown, Sierra Leone and later on those who returned to Monrovia, Liberia - mostly detribalised and often met with hostility, in the case of Sierra Leone by the reception committee. Blyden’s problems in his encounters with the Mulattoes in Liberia as recounted by Hollis R. Lynch makes for painful reading.

The magnificent Balachandra Rajan and his equally magnificent work Under Western Eyes: India from Milton to Macaulay measured against a similar type of comparative study, perhaps yet to be undertaken, in this case the then on-going developments in English Literature and the evolving Western Intellectual Canon as a lens and on-going commentary on colonial practice in India - a difference that is obvious in the religious sphere is that of course unlike West Africa, India with its own strong religious culture and written scriptures could not be easily penetrated by the imperial Christian missionaries: However, vast swathes of India were ruled by Muslims for almost eight hundred years, and now of course we have Pakistan as a separate nation since the 14th of August 1947…

Before I go into hibernation, it should be remarked that Balachandra’s frequent references to Hegel’s racism in his The Philosophy of History , should not go unnoticed and that it should be interesting to hear what e.g. Samuel Zalanga has to say about this in connection with the African condition/s

Emeagwali, Gloria (History)

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Mar 27, 2021, 1:45:09 PM3/27/21
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"I daresay that if those missionaries had not been to that neck of what Trump would have called “the swamp”
 and produced men like Bishop Ajayi Crowther then there would probably have been no Chief Obafemi Awolowo 
 the one that we know and most probably his universal education plan would not have taken off when it did or
 succeeded as it did. Without all that missionary activity in Abeokuta there would have been no 
Wole Soyinka and I daresay, no Toyin Falola, D. Litt either. ............" Cornelius Hamelberg




But where  would  the missionaries be without the  bounty  inherited from the
plundered lands on which they constructed their religious empire? Some of them invested in slave holdings and
used  Biblical texts to justify their activities, giving  the "slave ships" Biblical names, to boot. Their gains were 
intergenerational and as the societies from which they emerged  benefitted from plunder, so did they, 
directly and indirectly.

The Western educational establishment  on which these missionaries  relied  was constructed on  centuries of 
 knowledge transfer, from Africa and Asia, including the very paper on which  they wrote their treatises and epistles -
 granted that Egyptian paper was plant-based whilst the Chinese prototype was based on cellulose pulp. The two
 in sequence facilitated the documentation central to the kind of system they introduced.  The oldest known
 printed book is not the  Bible of Gutenberg but Buddhism's Diamond Sutra.

And what is so special about the Germanic language English? In fact it is one of the most  disorganized
and inconsistent languages of all times,  that simply benefitted from the  machinations of a particular 
empire- building hegemon.  The language was enriched by Asian and African contributions.
 

I would say that Soyinka and Falola would have added to the   Indigenous evolving  writing systems
that preceded the missionaries, and  contributed to endogenous scholarship. They may even have built on the Ajami tradition.  
They would have  rendered their brilliance in developing endogenous philosophies  and structures of governance
of all shapes and kinds - known, unknown and unknowable at this point in time.

West Africa's history,  and the historical process, did not begin with the missionaries. Thousands of years before them, around 9500BCE
people in the region called Mali would have launched ceramic manufacture. Three thousand years later around 6000BCE, the
Dufuna boat would have been created - paving the way for  local navigation.  Around 3000 BCE, the people of Nigeria 
(and Cameroon) would have invented raffia cloth, and now we know that iron metallurgy would go back as early as 2300 BCE,
 not only in  Northern Nigeria but also in Central Africa. Ogundiran has informed us of  Indigenous glass beads as "knowledge
 capital and epistemic objects" in Ile -Ife and environs.  The human spirit is indomitable- especially when unhindered by
 debilitating psychological obstructions.

The residential schools that the Christian missionaries were associated with in Canada, the U.S and Australia were 
sites of sexual abuse, pedophilia  and cruelty-  but I guess this never happened in Trump's" swamp. " Right?
Nobody wants to touch that subject.  Not yet.  


Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department, Central Connecticut State University
www.africahistory.net
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries




Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:41 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
 
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CAFYPD-TDm


Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department, Central Connecticut State University
www.africahistory.net
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries
2014 Distinguished Research Excellence Award in African Studies
 University of Texas at Austin
2019   Distinguished Africanist Award                   
New York African Studies Association
 

Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 10:38 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 27, 2021, 2:10:24 PM3/27/21
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GE :

Well put.  To put it succinctly what funded that educational edge of the West and paid the missionary Clergy that was recycled to the Ajayi Crowthers came from colonial activities.  What Africa got back in the Crowhers and Awolowo were the mere crumbs of the largess offered by the colinisation enterprise.

Oga Cornelius has helped to reinforce my logic very well.

OAA



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-------- Original message --------
From: "Emeagwali, Gloria (History)" <emea...@ccsu.edu>
Date: 27/03/2021 17:55 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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"I daresay that if those missionaries had not been to that neck of what Trump would have called “the swamp”
 and produced men like Bishop Ajayi Crowther then there would probably have been no Chief Obafemi Awolowo 
 the one that we know and most probably his universal education plan would not have taken off when it did or
 succeeded as it did. Without all that missionary activity in Abeokuta there would have been no 
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2021 7:41 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa
 
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CAFYPD-TDm
Professor Gloria Emeagwali
History Department, Central Connecticut State University
www.africahistory.net
Gloria Emeagwali's Documentaries
2014 Distinguished Research Excellence Award in African Studies
 University of Texas at Austin
2019   Distinguished Africanist Award                   
New York African Studies Association
 

Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 10:38 AM

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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

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Mar 27, 2021, 4:04:33 PM3/27/21
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Oga Cornelius: 

It was while doing graduate work in America, it was while noticing how trans- Atlantic Americans have held to the faiths taken abroad, while their brethren originated the Pentecostal orb as part of abolitionism, it was while Wande Abimbola  ( Ifa professor hosted Orisa culture in Ile- Ife in the early 80s that I came to the conclusion that the post independence African Christians and their Muslim counterparts have sold us far short of the benefits of post independent Africa.

Rather than negotiate their complete freedom from former colonial masters at home,  they simply caved in, rolled over and became lap dogs.

I can understand the situation of the Pentecostals in America, who are underdogs and had to get by in a foreign land with 40 acres.  Even then their brethren over there put up a good fight, either in captivity or freedom to preserve the religious heritage they brought with them more than those in Africa where traditionalists were put on the defensive even by their own kind after independence.


OAA



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-------- Original message --------
From: Cornelius Hamelberg <cornelius...@gmail.com>
Date: 27/03/2021 02:14 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Barewa

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Lord Agbetuyi,


Re – Your premise “In the UK for example the abolitionists used the argument to end slavery, but the freed slaves did not because of that change back to their old religions...etc.

It should be interesting to examine your conjectures as to the conditions that mitigated against the lost generations of returnees not reverting to their ancestral religions, and why, on the contrary, e.g. Yoruba religion flourished and is flourishing worldwide on the South American continent, in Brazil, Cuba, other parts of the Caribbean, in the United States where where a good number of Roots- conscious African-Americans are fleeing from what they call the “Judgemental religions” to Yoruba religion in either an older original form or developed with syncretic accretions. I have Santeria friends from Cuba, here in Stockholm, trying to teach me ancient Yoruba incantations – you should see their altars. Talking about “ judgemental” here’s no a single Muslim that I know that wouldn’t react with just their one word: Mushrikeen!

Otherwise, the arguments you just tossed at Ken make for sad reading, cast shadows in the realm of the sorrowful and the regrettable. It’s not unlikely that the ghosts, the spiritual descendants and beneficiaries of the Church Missionary Society are either in tears or at work and down on their knees adding to their good deeds, this time ardently praying for your salvation which assuming that you are not already saved and need to be saved or redeemed, to begin with, can only be guaranteed by your sincere repentance, the change of heart, mind and stance that’s called for after saying the things that you just said. A change of heart from sounding like an ingrate to full acknowledgment of all the benefits that you have reaped and that you are still enjoy reaping thanks to the good works of the Church Missionary Society in Western Nigeria.

I daresay that if those missionaries had not been to that neck of what Trump would have called “the swamp” and produced men like Bishop Ajayi Crowther then there would probably have been no Chief Obafemi Awolowo the one that we know and most probably his universal education plan would not have taken off when it did or succeeded as it did. Without all that missionary activity in Abeokuta there would have been no Wole Soyinka and I daresay, no Toyin Falola, D. Litt either. And just in case you are reeling or re-coiling in your armchair and detest words likebenefits” as employed here, well, here are some of the benefits: You are welcomed as one of the high megawatt lightbulbs in the English Language Empire and thanks to that language you have read Defoe ‘s Robinson Crusoe and Kipling’s The Ballad of East and West, you can communicate with any Fulani speaker at Aso Rock or even Buckingham Place, or any part of the UK where you have, understandably chosen to live.

Those are some of the kinds of arguments that have been advanced by some of the recalcitrant who don’t want to dish out any reparations (e.g. in Ten Reasons Why Reparations for Slavery is a Bad Idea for Blacks—and Racist Too) and of course I fully anticipate the tenor of your response to all of the above.

I though about the Falola D. Litt earlier in the day in this imperial connection, part of a much larger discourse: “The Indian mind had walled itself up in such a prison that only a new language could give it a ladder of escape




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Cornelius Hamelberg

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Mar 27, 2021, 7:21:15 PM3/27/21
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 I have to respond to Biko Agozino’s viscousness separately, I simply have to, because I just can’t afford to lean back and let him get away with murder - the kinds of things he’s saying; however, you Gloria can go on amusing yourself as much as you want to, you can be as polemical as you wanna be, but as for me no matter what you & Lord Agbetuyi and Baba Kadiri say, I’m gonna stay in hibernation until the coronavirus pandemic is over.

(I have been warming up for great event, and listening to King Sunny Ade continuously, this evening. From tomorrow morning I’ll start with Chief Commander non-stop on Spotify until 18th April,

With all due respect what Lord Agbetuyi says about Chief Commander Ebenezer Obey is utterly reprehensible and he should apologise to all of us worshipful fans for saying the following, and how dare he!: “I hope Dr. Fálęyę will be able to probe incisively the nexus of traditional (particularly Ifá) religion and Christianity in the Chief Commander's lyrics on our behalf, especially the syncretism that propelled him to full blown Christian ministry and the deleterious effect on the sophistication of his music, to the chagrin of music lovers and industry alike.”

For me, Chief Commander is at a level with Miles Davis and Art Blakey - they share the same generosity of spirit – just as Chief Commender has promoted many guitar talents given them the platform to perform and show their mettle by incorporating them in his band, so too Miles has promoted so many guitarists and Art Blakey has featured so many trumpeters and saxophonists in his band)

What you’re actually saying (blasphemy to the Believers) is that if only other people’s Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ had not been born and the Great Commission had not been taken so seriously then the missionary problem could have been averted and furthermore without the savvy from Africa even the paper on which the New Testament is printed could not have been possible. I hope that you know that you cannot say the same about the Torah Scrolls

In the meantime, please feel free to dream about alternative futures when the past can only remind us of what we are not now.

In the final analysis, the question which you could go on to discuss with people like Nimi Wariboko and Bishop Kukah , Professor Femi Segun and Professor Falola the Believer is this : Has Christianity been a positive force when talking about the Redemption of Africa




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