Fantastic Olutoyin Ayinde:a walking library, a credit to the black Race

[Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth]

Olutoyin ayinde is a consumate   professional  town planner  and former commissioner  for urban and physical planning  lsgos state. He is a credit to the Black Race.

I have not read , the Black man's dilemma  by the veteran journalist Areoye oyebola but I would like to read it

I have just read an interview in the punch  today september 112022 on why buildings collapse in nigeria  particularly  in lagos.

 Lagos has be in the news relatedly  the surveyor  General has been protesting  at the lagos government  flouting rules with respect to the practice of land surveying.

 Olutoyin ayinde understands  his subject I daresay he can hold his own any where in the world! A wise publisher. Book publisher  should go after him and other  people  like him to harvest  his knowledge and wealth of experience .interview in the newspaper is good  but its not enough.we need  books to thoroughly thrash the issue  of town planning in lagos and nigeria in particular .book for the family library, academic  library, children's  library school library, public library,administrative  library  etc  can the Librarians and publishers please step forward  to salute olutoyin ayinde an illustrious  son of Africa. 

It's said when an elder dies  in Africa whole libraries are lost.please let us save this library that is olutoyin ayinde.let us drink from this library  that is olutoyin ayinde.

[Dr. Oohay]

Is being regarded as “a credit to the Black race” not a backhanded “white supremacist” compliment that upholds and promotes “race” as a (“natural”) truth instead of “race” as an invidious and insidious fallacy (and thus a most dangerous phenomenon)?

Race is a fallacy, but ironically, invidiously, and insidiously, racism is an overwhelming reality. 

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[Harrow, Kenneth]

these are interesting observations by dr.o.

if race is a construct, let's say, on physiological grounds,or genetic grounds, that deny the arguments of pseudoscientific racism of the 19^th century, it is a sociological or psychological or political reality, an historical reality, in people's lives. the best argument in that direction comes from stuart hall, famous for helping creat black british cultural studies as a field.

the distinction is important. we all share "identities" not because of genes, but because of communities in which we participate, and whose identity we share in creating.

should we be proud of our community members' achievements? sartre calls that bad faith, and i imagine heidegger would too, since they are not our own achievements. we appropriate the accomplishments of others that way, as if we ourselves had done the work and were similarly gifted.

thus all the ugly things said about black people, or jews, are the flip sides of compliments; e.g. they naturally have rhythem, or they naturally are great musicians. flip that and you get slurs. the same for many other compliments/slurs, like intelligence flips into money grubbing.

in that regard dr.o. has it right in using the term "naturally" which implies this imputation of value to race is a form of naturalizing, which is how racism or other forms of bigotry always work.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: 'Dr. Oohay' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 10:30 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fantastic Olutoyin Ayinde:a walking library, a credit to the black Race

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/934582106.1524881.1662906638097%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Oluwatoyin Adepoju]

Superb suggestion

--

[Harrow, Kenneth]

hall's point, by the way, is that our identity comes not from fixed, essentialized being, but from colllectively constructing our histories. we tell ourselves, our children, what we remember as our history, and in the process proceed to create ourselves. it is a beautiful way to define a form of "reality" that makes sense in an age where we are telling each other stories about ourselves--let's say exchanging messages, emails, tweets, sms, etc.,--that create something in common.

like the language we speak and understand, always there to link us, and always undergoing change as we speak each word

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 11:44 AM

[Oluwatoyin Adepoju]

ken is often exciting when discussing theory

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/BL1PR12MB51917D04EA5775BC53B71508DA459%40BL1PR12MB5191.namprd12.prod.outlook.com.

[Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth]

Professor Harrow please I love to be educared can you clarify this:should we be proud of our community members' achievements? sartre calls that bad faith, and i imagine heidegger would too, 

On Sunday, September 11, 2022, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:

these are interesting observations by dr.o.

if race is a construct, let's say, on physiological grounds,or genetic grounds, that deny the arguments of pseudoscientific racism of the 19^th century, it is a sociological or psychological or political reality, an historical reality, in people's lives. the best argument in that direction comes from stuart hall, famous for helping creat black british cultural studies as a field.

the distinction is important. we all share "identities" not because of genes, but because of communities in which we participate, and whose identity we share in creating.

should we be proud of our community members' achievements? sartre calls that bad faith, and i imagine heidegger would too, since they are not our own achievements. we appropriate the accomplishments of others that way, as if we ourselves had done the work and were similarly gifted.

thus all the ugly things said about black people, or jews, are the flip sides of compliments; e.g. they naturally have rhythem, or they naturally are great musicians. flip that and you get slurs. the same for many other compliments/slurs, like intelligence flips into money grubbing.

in that regard dr.o. has it right in using the term "naturally" which implies this imputation of value to race is a form of naturalizing, which is how racism or other forms of bigotry always work.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: 'Dr. Oohay' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 10:30 AM

To: usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fantastic Olutoyin Ayinde:a walking library, a credit to the black Race

Is being regarded as “a credit to the Black race” not a backhanded “white supremacist” compliment that upholds and promotes “race” as a (“natural”) truth instead of “race” as an invidious and insidious fallacy (and thus a most dangerous phenomenon)?

Race is a fallacy, but ironically, invidiously, and insidiously, racism is an overwhelming reality. 

On Sunday, September 11, 2022, 8:11 AM, 'Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Olutoyin ayinde is a consumate   professional  town planner  and former commissioner  for urban and physical planning  lsgos state. He is a credit to the Black Race.

I have not read , the Black man's dilemma  by the veteran journalist Areoye oyebola but I would like to read it

I have just read an interview in the punch  today september 112022 on why buildings collapse in nigeria  particularly  in lagos.

 Lagos has be in the news relatedly  the surveyor  General has been protesting  at the lagos government  flouting rules with respect to the practice of land surveying.

 Olutoyin ayinde understands  his subject I daresay he can hold his own any where in the world! A wise publisher. Book publisher  should go after him and other  people  like him to harvest  his knowledge and wealth of experience .interview in the newspaper is good  but its not enough.we need  books to thoroughly thrash the issue  of town planning in lagos and nigeria in particular .book for the family library, academic  library, children's  library school library, public library,administrative  library  etc  can the Librarians and publishers please step forward  to salute olutoyin ayinde an illustrious  son of Africa. 

It's said when an elder dies  in Africa whole libraries are lost.please let us save this library that is olutoyin ayinde.let us drink from this library  that is olutoyin ayinde.

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[Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth]

Thanks from bringing it to my attention. I withdraw the word" race". Its better to  describe him as outstanding  or extra ordinary.

On Sunday, September 11, 2022, 'Dr. Oohay' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Is being regarded as “a credit to theawe Black race” not a backhanded “white supremacist” compliment that upholds and promotes “race” as a (“natural”) truth instead of “race” as an invidious and insidious fallacy (and thus a most dangerous phenomenon)?

Race is a fallacy, but ironically, invidiously, and insidiously, racism is an overwhelming reality. 

On Sunday, September 11, 2022, 8:11 AM, 'Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Olutoyin ayinde is a consumate   professional  town planner  and former commissioner  for urban and physical planning  lsgos state. He is a credit to the Black Race.

I have not read , the Black man's dilemma  by the veteran journalist Areoye oyebola but I would like to read it

I have just read an interview in the punch  today september 112022 on why buildings collapse in nigeria  particularly  in lagos.

 Lagos has be in the news relatedly  the surveyor  General has been protesting  at the lagos government  flouting rules with respect to the practice of land surveying.

 Olutoyin ayinde understands  his subject I daresay he can hold his own any where in the world! A wise publisher. Book publisher  should go after him and other  people  like him to harvest  his knowledge and wealth of experience .interview in the newspaper is good  but its not enough.we need  books to thoroughly thrash the issue  of town planning in lagos and nigeria in particular .book for the family library, academic  library, children's  library school library, public library,administrative  library  etc  can the Librarians and publishers please step forward  to salute olutoyin ayinde an illustrious  son of Africa. 

It's said when an elder dies  in Africa whole libraries are lost.please let us save this library that is olutoyin ayinde.let us drink from this library  that is olutoyin ayinde.

--
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[Harrow, Kenneth]

dear augustine

this is really a hard question for me. on a personal level, perhaps...we can say, well, i am proud as an igbo or a black man or a nigerian that such and such did this great thing.

but really, does that man's achievement rub off onto you.

i am this little fellow, and instead of accepting myself for who i am, i see myself magnified in the other person's achievement.

sartre and heidegger were skeptical of the easy identification with the crowd. the key example is death. how the crowd takes death, talks about it, its pain, the loss etc. but you alone, your death, has no real meaning, confronts nothing of our ending, when placed in terms of the crowd. we can be authentic only with relation to our own meeting of death in ourselves, and that's the only authenticity.

it's hard for me because i want to crow when, say, for example, i can claim (truthfully) that julie merehtu grew up down the block from us, that our kids or kids' friends knew her and her sister, and now she is a world famous artist.

that's cool for a minute, till i realize it has nothing to do with me, and i falsely bask in her glow.

yet, which of us wouldn't feel proud of our children, as our dear toyin falola has done in talking about his daughters' accomplishments, and that talk makes us too feel good.

the existentialists aren't enough for me. i want us to share beyond our own personal borders, be happy and feel good for others, even at a distance. can we do that without excluding others, though? that's what makes it hard.

i come at this asking questions, not knowing answers.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: 'Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 3:52 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

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[Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth]

Professor  Harrow very interesting  thinking.i need to reflect on it.iam highly honoured. What does it mean to be African? Or an African word view.? A person is a person through  other persons

.thats why I celebrate  someone else and it makes me feel good.

But Satre and Heidegger are not African  or a philosophers from Africa. What I have stated is confirmed by quantum  physics that things exist only in relation  to other things.thsts called mbutu  meaning I am because you are. Its should be instructive  that I have taken this up with Professor Carlo  rovelli in his write up on quantum physics in the new scientist of march 13 2021.quantum physics perhaps cannot be wrong and so mbutu! I told professor rovelli that we have already know n his ideas long before in Africa.

On Monday, September 12, 2022, Harrow, Kenneth <har...@msu.edu> wrote:

dear augustine

this is really a hard question for me. on a personal level, perhaps...we can say, well, i am proud as an igbo or a black man or a nigerian that such and such did this great thing.

but really, does that man's achievement rub off onto you.

i am this little fellow, and instead of accepting myself for who i am, i see myself magnified in the other person's achievement.

sartre and heidegger were skeptical of the easy identification with the crowd. the key example is death. how the crowd takes death, talks about it, its pain, the loss etc. but you alone, your death, has no real meaning, confronts nothing of our ending, when placed in terms of the crowd. we can be authentic only with relation to our own meeting of death in ourselves, and that's the only authenticity.

it's hard for me because i want to crow when, say, for example, i can claim (truthfully) that julie merehtu grew up down the block from us, that our kids or kids' friends knew her and her sister, and now she is a world famous artist.

that's cool for a minute, till i realize it has nothing to do with me, and i falsely bask in her glow.

yet, which of us wouldn't feel proud of our children, as our dear toyin falola has done in talking about his daughters' accomplishments, and that talk makes us too feel good.

the existentialists aren't enough for me. i want us to share beyond our own personal borders, be happy and feel good for others, even at a distance. can we do that without excluding others, though? that's what makes it hard.

i come at this asking questions, not knowing answers.

ken

kenneth harrow

professor emeritus

dept of english

michigan state university

517 803-8839

har...@msu.edu

---

From: 'Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafricadialogue@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 3:52 PM

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CAP9m8jKoaj%3Duxz27aEXDN_2RQcKpdMg4iwdT_RYrv0VvVPfQgg%40mail.gmail.com.

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[Cornelius Hamelberg]

Just a little babble, a side comment not a slide or a snide comment, just some wee little babble, a few syllables from the Tower of Babylon, and it’s not a laughing matter either.

Black Man from Songs in the Key of Life tells the whole story.

The way I see it, the term, “The Black Race”  - contrasted with ”The Human Race” or “Mankind” sounds so exclusive! “The Black Race'' can sometimes be used in a pejorative sense, pointing at a marginalised and despised folk pretty much like  “the shuffering servant of Isaiah chapter 53”  -  not a Yoruba elder from ancient Egypt but one more recently sired in “The Dark Continent”, on sojourn over there in the New World Diaspora, sitting over there and asking questions about us and our place in “The Family of Mankind” - Humankind, painful questions, such as “What has The Black Race ever achieved  - in the modern world?” - so, that, understandably,  when Ulli Beier got to Papua New Guinea  - from Osogbo  - it was said of him that he had finally arrived at “ the last area of darkness”. 

The last question, the most up-to-date one for that matter, is always, “What has the Black Race been doing for you lately?”  Nothing? The Black Race, the Mother of all Races?

 As The Last Poets put it all over these lyrics,

“Niggers play football, baseball and basketball

while the white man cuttin' off their balls”

This time it is that “ The Black Race” should be proud of “ a walking library” by the name of a someone known as “ Olutoyin Ayinde”. How much more of an all-embracing encouragement, and what a change in meaning and what a difference it would be, with no race excluded, if the statement had read “ Fantastic Olutoyin Ayinde: a walking library, a credit to the Human Race” and thereby, to all mankind. No backhand, White supremacist compliment, meant.  Dr. Oohay of all mankind, gets the drift. 

Earlier this morning whilst waiting for the results of the Swedish General Elections which are still trickling in, I listened to this podcast and learned a little from it. ( The rabbis say that your state of knowledge  never stands still and that if it doesn’t increase, then it’s surely decreasing:

What Science Tells us about Race and Racism

My first reaction was, “ How come the Black Race is not being represented on the discussion panel? 

It’s a vast subject: Race, Racism…

[Emeagwali, Gloria (History)]

My take on this is that Sartre and his 

peers are speaking in terms of 

Individualistic, Western Society 

where individuals are seen in

atomistic terms.The reference 

to Ubuntu,  and interconnected 

communitarianism continues to

be valid  in  many parts of the

 world, indeed.

 May I add also that the

discussion about whether

race is a construct or not has been

treated opportunistically and

with contradictions in the

last few decades. These 

contradictions may show

up within a single passage

in some cases.The world of

medicine and pharmacology

boasts about the ability to

cater for specific racial groups

in diagnosis, clinical treatment 

drug therapy and so on, whilst

other factions in the scientific 

establishment challenge the 

concept of race outright. To 

complicate matters there is talk of 

haplogroups and so on, often 

used to connote genetic groupings

and in some quarters as a surrogate 

to “race.”What we are sure about 

though is that race is indeed

a “sociological or psychological 

or political reality, an historical 

reality, in people's lives”-to quote

harrow. Biko can give us

some penitentiary data vis a vis

the US or Australia and the 

implicit biases and perceptions

at play.

Professor Gloria Emeagwali
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association

---

From: 'Augustine Togonu-Bickersteth' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2022 11:11 PM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Fantastic Olutoyin Ayinde:a walking library, a credit to the black Race

 

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[biko...@yahoo.com]

I endorse the analysis by sistah Glo.

 Racism is alive and kicking. Those who rightly or wrongly question race as a biological given must not shy away from the struggle against racism-sexism-imperialism because the threat posed is against all as articulated and far from separate systems of oppression. More than  70 per cent of prisoners in Australia are poor whites while Aboriginal people make up 23 percent as the most overrepresented people in prison worldwide. The cops kill twice more white people than black people. If poor whites knew this, they would join BLM in greater numbers.  Stuart Hall called for the strategy of coalitions and alliances.

We are right to celebrate our achievers as every football fan knows, we win when our team wins. However, the question for those celebrating a walking library of architecture is what the librarian did to prevent buildings from collapsing frequently?

Biko

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