Israel and Palestine: Peace for all or peace for none
Sabella
The State of Israel has been in existence since 1948/1949. Rightfully so! They deserve to live in peace and security. However, they cannot and should not deny the Palestinians their inalienable right to statehood; they cannot and should not deny the Palestinians the right to live in peace and security. Until the US and the rest of the United Nations Security Council members acquiesces to the wishes of the Palestinians to become a sovereign state – recognized and a fully functioning member of the UN and other international organizations – the world will continue to witness these one-sided carnages. Unless Palestine becomes a sovereign state, there will never be peace and serenity in that neighborhood. Never! Military might or not -- unless there is peace for all -- there will be peace for none. Something else: we pretend not to know that much of the hostility and resentment in the Middle is traceable to the Israeli-Palestinian problem. The world, and indeed, the Middle East will be a much better place if we inject justice and fairness into the equation.
Sabella O. Abidde
Cornelius Hamelberg
Sabella O Abidde,
There’s always more than one side to any story. It’s said that a democracy does not wage war on another democracy. True of false? Just as you conclude, indeed, “The world, and indeed, the Middle East will be a much better place if we inject justice and fairness into the equation.” In the equation you’re talking about, you have Israel on one side and on the other side, essentially, you have “The Religion of Peace”
I have also been following the troubled Middle East very closely since 1986 from mostly pro-Palestinian sources and since 1995 mostly informed by The Jerusalem Centre for Public Affairs and some of these Israeli sites
We can’t afford to be too cynical about this issue. A good starting point for future negotiations should be a careful review of The Hamas Covenant with a good look at Article Eleven which states:
“The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement.
It happened like this: When the leaders of the Islamic armies conquered Syria and Iraq, they sent to the Caliph of the Moslems, Umar bin-el-Khatab, asking for his advice concerning the conquered land - whether they should divide it among the soldiers, or leave it for its owners, or what? After consultations and discussions between the Caliph of the Moslems, Omar bin-el-Khatab and companions of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, it was decided that the land should be left with its owners who could benefit by its fruit. As for the real ownership of the land and the land itself, it should be consecrated for Moslem generations till Judgement Day. Those who are on the land, are there only to benefit from its fruit. This Waqf remains as long as earth and heaven remain. Any procedure in contradiction to Islamic Sharia, where Palestine is concerned, is null and void.
"Verily, this is a certain truth. Wherefore praise the name of thy Lord, the great Allah." (The Inevitable - verse 95).You - or a Palestinian Rights sympathiser may say that it is the PLO and not Hamas that is the legitimate representative of Palestinian aspirations for statehood whereas what is left of the Hamas leadership and supporters may argue that if only Hamas could get about a third of the seats when the next Palestinian Elections are finally held, and should Hamas ever be admitted to membership of the PLO, then of course Hamas could be a strong voice from within the PLO
The thrust of Article 11 is that the Palestinian State should replace / displace Israel in its entirety, a non-starter but perhaps a good bargaining position; you ask for all and you compromise by accepting a quarter, much less than a Palestinian state defined by 1967 borders, eta, etc. Etc.
Once Article 11 of the Hamas charter is abrogated and publicly acknowledged, there could be some progress towards living in peace and tranquillity with their enemies...
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
''Once Article 11 of the Hamas charter is abrogated and publicly acknowledged, there could be some progress towards living in peace and tranquillity with their enemies...''
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Harrow, Kenneth
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 1:57 PM
To: usaafricadialogue <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Israel and Palestine: Peace for all or peace for none
Cornelius Hamelberg
Yes, really.
Since time does not permit, here’s my earlier take on the latest escapade in Gaza:
It would seem that the long-suffering Palestinian people are caught in a double bind, damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. The reality is that Israel is there to stay, Israel is not going away. When are Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Iran & Hezbollah going to arrive at that sober realisation and start from there?
Hamas in particular is in that Sisyphus situation, caught in what could be an endless cycle of violence. In 2014, and in the recently concluded fracas with Israel, they fired their 4,500 firecrackers at Israel and in retaliation Israel caused massive damage, $300 million worth of damage to Gaza’s infrastructure and through targeted assassinations some of Hamas’ top commanders and as collateral damage once again a heavy death toll for innocent Palestinian children, men, and women...
Hamas, clearly the underdog in any military conflict with Israel is proudly proclaiming victory all over the Palestinian media. If, step one, Hamas/ “the resistance” renounces terror/ terrorism then the siege will most probably be lifted and everybody should live happily ever after. It’s doubtful that the siege will be lifted before Hamas renounces terrorism.
That’s the logical answer to Professor Harrow having confirmed the efficacy of “ hamas' deadly rhetoric” and then he himself rhetorically claiming that “there is absolutely no point in citing any hamas documents, it distracts us from the israeli right wing govt's policies and actions. “
Hamas could start by abrogating Article 11, if they haven’t already done so. There’s already some talk about the logic arising out of the current situation, that the way forward would be for a demilitarized Gaza. I suppose that there would be no easy compliance to the request or order that that Hamas surrender their weapons – even Boko Haram wouldn’t do that, nor would North Korea’s Kim Jong-un. None of the aforementioned are candidates for gaining more sympathy through some satyagraha, some Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King type of passive resistance/ sit-ins.
Alas, just as El-Hajj Malik el-Shabazz put it, Islam is not a religion of shuffering and Shmiling:
“There is nothing in our book, the Koran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully. Our religion teaches us to be intelligent. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery. That’s a good religion.”
On Sunday I sent this message to my anti Zionist friend
As we can see Biden is in love and courting Israel . No one knows how successful Hamas will be when Palestinian elections are finally held or if they will ever be admitted into membership of the PLO, no one knows where renegotiating the Iran nuclear deal is going, but as you may have noticed they are not shouting so much when Gaza is being pounded ; Hezbollah is also keeping quiet. Egypt is in the bag. Turkey? Russia who is now in charge of Syria? What's sure is that if Hamas is no longer an important player then Zionism will more easily get some compromises and concessions from Fatah about 1967 borders, the right of return, and most importantly, Jerusalem.
In reply he sent this video in which Chomsky answers the question “Will Palestine ever be free?”
The correct answer will probably be found in some Biblical eschatology - (at Armageddon which side will you be on?
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Harrow, Kenneth
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 5:54 PM
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Israel and Palestine: Peace for all or peace for none
Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI
This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Israel and Palestine: Peace for all or peace for none
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Harrow, Kenneth
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2021 9:57 PM
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Dear Kenneth,
What do you have to say about the statement that Trump issued on the Hamas-Israel debacle?
It’s common knowledge that if Trump had still been in the saddle, this latest flare-up would not have happened. Anyway, it does not seem to have derailed the Abraham Accords.
I don’t want to put you on a spot, but you used that most unpalatable word and so does one of your brothers, here .Please tell us this ain't true
For the Purim kids these days, Hamas rhymes with HAMAN, they share a unity of intention.
Since this is a public discussion, we could spend just a few seconds focusing on HAMAS that was founded in 1987, allegedly with some CIA assistance, to counteract Fatah’s monopoly/ dominance, the old game of “divide and rule”. More about Hamas here
Miraculously, Hamas did well in the first elections that they contested after Sharon “the bulldozer” had pulled out of Gaza, lock, stock, and barrel. And what did the democratically elected HAMAS then do?
They, strong-armed, militarily manhandled Fatah out of Gaza. I guess they would like to win the forthcoming Palestinian Elections in the West Bank too and extend their rule to over there by any means necessary on the way to fulfilling ARTICLE 11 which says, “Israel get out of Palestine! Palestine belongs to me, all of it!” "From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free...Palestine is ours from the river to the sea," - and there we have the end of the two state solution.
Chairman Arafat used to sing, “And those who do like it can go and drink the waters of the Dead Sea!”
In the meantime, what has been made patently clear by the Hamas-Israel Conflict in 2014 and 2021 is that whilst the siege of Gaza has been continuous, Hamas has miraculously been able to stockpile rockets to the extent that they could fire off over 4, 500 rockets this month and boast that they were only getting rid of their weakest weapons, and had many much more destructive ones in store, with which to terrorise Israeli civilians in Diderot, Lod, Tel Aviv, Ashdod, Dimona, Jerusalem, causing Prime Minister Netanyahu to ask the folks at the EU rhetorically, “Which country would allow this?”
Would Trump allow some militants in Georgia aided / supplied by Iran and inspired by Rashida Tlaib of your home state Michigan and Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, to fire 4, 500 rockets on Washington DC without calling in at least the National Guard to pulverise them?
The two state solution , dead, back to the 1967 borders out of the question, the Hamas story continues. Gaza is now their military base. If the IDF had gone in this time, I assume that it would have been to completely divest them of their weapons. It would have been bloody. As long as the Palestinians continue to harbour the illusion that they will militarily or through terrorism and in concert with e.g. Iran and Hezbollah, defeat Israel and erect the greater Palestine (God forbid) over the carcass of Israel they will probably not fulfil their dreams, in fact such a dream may well turn into a nightmare, until Mahdi, (alaihi salam) Mashiach and Maitreya arrive.
I’ve heard some people talking about a 4th option that the Pals could continue exploring the Jordan option, a possible Jericho – Amman Federation….
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Cornelius Hamelberg
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Cornelius Hamelberg
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Joseph Bangura
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Harrow, Kenneth
"Following the Muslim conquest of Palestine in 636–640, several Muslim ruling dynasties succeeded each other as they wrestled control of Palestine: the Rashiduns; the Umayyads, who built the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem; the Abbasids; the semi-independent Tulunids and the Ikhshidids; the Fatimids; and the Seljuks. In 1099, the Crusaders established the Kingdom of Jerusalem in Palestine, which the Ayyubid Sultanate conquered in 1187. The Crusaders failed to retake Palestine despite further attempts. The Egyptian Mamluks took Palestine from the Mongols (who had conquered the Ayyubid Sultanate) in 1260. The Ottomans captured Palestine in 1516 and ruled it until Egypt took it in 1832. Eight years later, the United Kingdom intervened and returned the region to the Ottomans. Considerable demographic changes happened during the 19th century and with the regional migrations of Druze, Circassians and Bedouin tribes. The emergence of Zionism also brought many Jewish immigrants from Europe, and the revival of the Hebrew language.[2]
During World War I the British government issued the Balfour Declaration, favoring the establishment of a national home for the Jewish people in Palestine. The British captured Palestine from the Ottomans shortly thereafter. The League of Nations gave Britain mandatory power over Palestine in 1922. Jewish mass immigration and colonial rule led to sectarian violence between Jews and Arabs, eventually causing the British government to announce its intention to terminate the Mandate in 1947. The United Nations General Assembly recommended partitioning Palestine into two states; one Arab and one Jewish. However, the situation in Palestine had deteriorated into a civil war between Arabs and Jews. The Arabs rejected the Partition Plan, the Jews ostensibly accepted it, declaring the independence of the State of Israel in May 1948 upon the termination of the British mandate."
ken
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 11:21 AM
Cornelius Hamelberg
The status of Palestine Under Ottoman Rule is as close as you’ll get to answering that question. Under Assad the Elder, Syria continued to look upon the whole of Palestine as but a province of Syria. They still continue to lay claim to the Golan Heights.
In the past three months, Israel conducted over 400 sorties over Syria, systematically knocking out Iran’s munition depots and smashing other Iranian military infrastructure and personnel in that country.
However, the next confrontation between Hezbollah and Israel could be decisive. Hezbollah has at least 50, 000 missiles aimed at Israel
Now that Russia has practically kicked Iran out of Syria, we are about to witness the redrawing of the map of the Middle East under the passive gaze of Joe O’Biden… still not a word from him about North Korea, Taiwan or the looming confrontation in the South China Seas which he’d prefer to keep on his back-burner….
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Oluwatoyin Adepoju
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Harrow, Kenneth
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
To: usaafricadialogue <USAAfric...@googlegroups.com>
Harrow, Kenneth
kenneth harrow
professor emeritus
dept of english
michigan state university
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 10:35 AM
To: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Emeagwali, Gloria (History)
Prof. of History/African Studies, CCSU
africahistory.net; vimeo.com/ gloriaemeagwali
Recipient of the 2014 Distinguished Research
Excellence Award, Univ. of Texas at Austin;
2019 Distinguished Africanist Award
New York African Studies Association
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2021 11:21 AM
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Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Re: Israel and Palestine: Peace for all or peace for none
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