Christian hate speech arrest in Finland
Gloria Emeagwali
Salimonu Kadiri
Skickat: den 7 december 2019 03:38
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Ämne: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Christian hate speech arrest in Finland
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/october/christian-speech-a-hate-crime-politician-faces-police-interrogation-for-posting-bible-verse
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Baba Kadiri,
Nigeria is still a secular state, although it will not be secular very much longer if Boko Haram were to have their way. Still, it’s well within your right to quote Bible and Quran ( although I’m not aware of any verse in the Quran that explicitly forbids it – apart from Surah Al-Baqarah ayat 189 that says that houses should be entered through their front doors – which has been variously interpreted to mean that anal intercourse is strictly prohibited – on the other hand, some Shia Muslims such as Kuwaiti Sheikh Yasser Al-Habib make big bones about it and preach hatefully and contemptuously, against homosexuality.
There is surely a difference between homophobia and homophobic hate speech, especially the kind of homophonic hate speech which wants to punish same-sex relationship by the death penalty, for example.
That distinction is somewhat complicated by the country constitutions that relegate that type of human sexual behaviour to a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment and in some case by the death penalty
I know how you feel, but consider, some men were created or feel differently, and just as it would not be an easy task to convert you to that kind of behaviour, so too it could be difficult to convert a lesbian...
On Saturday, 7 December 2019 23:35:36 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:
Thank you Gloria for posting the link below. I observe that Päivi Räsänen, a Christian politician and a member of Finish Parliament was only interrogated at the police headquarters in a hate speech investigation for sharing Romans 1: 24-27 in the Bible on Social Media. Päivi Räsänen's action was premised on the participation of the Evangelical Church of Finland in the homosexual parade called Helsinki Pride in June 2019. Since June 2019, Päivi Räsänen remains interrogated and not prosecuted for hate speech and I am very certain it is going to remain as such for eternity. There was precedence, not in Finland but in, Sweden, her neighbouring country.
In the Swedish off-shore island of Öland, a Pentecostal Church Pastor by name Åke Green, preached in a Borgholm Church in the presence of 50 people. From the pulpit, he asked his audience rhetorically, is homosexuality something one chooses? He answered self, yes. One chooses it. One is not born with it. Pastor Green continued, "Sexual abnormalities are a deep cancer torus on the body of the whole society. The Lord knows that sexually perverted people will even rape animals; By legalising partnership between man and man and between woman and woman, it is simply going to create catastrophe of unknown dimension. We see already the consequences of this. We see it genom AIDS which is spreading. Now not all AIDS afflicted are homosexuals, but it has originated on the ground of this once upon a time; It is a scandal to let innocent children be subjected to this torture. One assaults a child through adoption from parents, from mother and father, to two men or two women; and, Now I must emphasize that not all homosexuals are paedophiles or perverted, but one opens the gate to the forbidden in violation to procreation order; Homosexuals are more inclined to have sex with children and animals. Concluding, Pastor Åke Green referred to Apostle Paul words in the Bible, Romans 1 : 26-27." The above was the sermon of Pastor Åke Green in a Borgholm Church on 20 July 2003 for which he was sentenced to six months jail on 29 June 2004 for hate speech against same sex practitioners by a Kalmar Magistrate Court. On appeal to the High Court, Pastor Green was discharge and acquitted of hate speech crime whereby the prosecuted appealed to the Swedish Supreme Court. On 29 November 2005, the Supreme Court decided that none of the speeches attributed to pastor Åke Green from the pulpit contains a direct threat or incitement to violence against the homosexuals. The Court referred to Article 9 and 10 of the European Convention that guarantees freedom of Religion and freedom of expression respectively under which the statements of Pastor Åke Green fell. Therefore, the Court concluded that the said speeches did not constitute hate speech.
To the Christian believers, the Bible contains the words of God and his instructions to human beings. As long as the Bible is allowed to be in circulation all over the world, its contents must be cited freely without obstruction. The only option open to pro-Sodomites who want to propagate same-sex intercourse is to ban Bible and Quran from circulation. Some friendly homosexual Christans have hypocritically preached that Jesus loved everybody including the homosexuals, which was why he died on the cross to wipe away human sins. Yet when the Pharisees asked him if he had come to change the Mosaic Laws, he replied, "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them. Truly, I say to you, till Heaven and Earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot will change from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever changes one of the least of the commandments, and teaches men so shall be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven (Mathew 5 :17-19)" And in Luke 16 : 17, Jesus said, "Itis easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void." I have brought the injunctions of the Bible and Quran into the discussion because Professor Farooq A. Kperogi had inferred that the criminalization of homosexuality by the Nigerian Senate constitutes hate speech.S. Kadiri
Från: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com> för Gloria Emeagwali <gloria....@gmail.com>
Skickat: den 7 december 2019 03:38
Till: usaafric...@googlegroups.com <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Ämne: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Christian hate speech arrest in Finland
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/october/christian-speech-a-hate-crime-politician-faces-police-interrogation-for-posting-bible-verse
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Salimonu Kadiri
Skickat: den 8 december 2019 05:01
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Ämne: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Christian hate speech arrest in Finland
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Baba Kadiri,
Are not all men equal?
Consider this list.
The Quranic references to Sodom and Gomorrah and that Yasser Al-Habib ‘s views may be based on the verses you have quoted don’t change the reality of homosexuality in the world, from ancient times to now. Of course, there are some orthodox rabbis such as Rabbi Avraham ben Yaakov who says more or less exactly what you say in this thread. Some years ago, using very strong language in his commentary on the Torah Portion Vayeira (which was read in all synagogues on the 16th of November this year) he said,
“The inhabitants of Sodom enjoyed a fabulous, green watered spa in what is the world's lowest point. They turned "G-d's garden" into a center devoted purely to the worship of self to the exclusion of all others. This finds its ultimate expression in sodomy, which was the sin of Ham when he uncovered his father's nakedness (see Rashi on Gen. 9:22). Sodomy is an extreme violation of the Covenant, which decrees that human sexuality is to be elevated to serve as the bond that brings husband and wife together in procreating and raising holy souls. Instead of this, sodomy degrades and abuses man's highest creative power, his seed, throwing it into the very gutter, the part of the body designed to expel poisonous waste and filth. Sodomy degrades both the passive partner, who is subjugated and used, and the active partner, who is turned into a selfish, lustful animal” (On the destruction of Sodom)
Which does not mean that in the Holy Land of Israel, the Land of the Bible which you quote ( consider that all the Hebrew prophets except one, only preached in the land of Israel), that Tel Aviv is about to cease being the Mecca of the Gay, for the simple reason that Israel is not a theocracy. Nor is Nigeria, the holy Nigerian Constitution notwithstanding. On the other hand, even if the Bible and the Quran serve as the moral foundations of Nigeria’s legislation on private sexual practices of Nigeria’s citizens, the constitution was not written in stone, is amenable to change and I guess that it can be amended unless of course tomorrow’s Boko Haram Revolution sweeps it aside altogether and imposes Sharia Law on everybody’s ass including the homosexual practitioners. ( I Imagine that is someone in this forum had been focused on prominent male buttocks instead of the female protrusion entitled “Carrying the treasure across the road”, Baba Kadiri would have taken an even much stronger moral stand…
Apart from preaching traditional Yoruba attitudes, Bible, Quran and the Nigerian Constitution of today, and apart from feeling "pity", can Baba Kadiri suggest any plans on how to deal with that aspect of human nature, apart from the mass execution (genocide) or mass incarceration of such practitioners. As to the death penalty – imagine, a future time when such draconian measures would be repealed and the regret about those already executed who, sadly, cannot be brought back to life?
Fortunately, or unfortunately, Nigeria has not yet got to the point where there are any discussions about same-sex marriage being sanctified by church or (God forbid) in the mosque.
This is recent news: 100 Orthodox Rabbis Issue Same Sex Marriage Declaration
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Baba Kadiri,
Are not all men equal?
Consider this list.
The Quranic references to Sodom and Gomorrah and that Yasser Al-Habib ‘s views may be based on the verses you have quoted don’t change the reality of homosexuality in the world, from ancient times to now. Of course, there are some orthodox rabbis such as Rabbi Avraham ben Yaakov who says more or less exactly what you say in this thread. Some years ago, using very strong language in his commentary on the Torah Portion Vayeira (which was read in all synagogues on the 16th of November this year) he said,
“The inhabitants of Sodom enjoyed a fabulous, green watered spa in what is the world's lowest point. They turned "G-d's garden" into a center devoted purely to the worship of self to the exclusion of all others. This finds its ultimate expression in sodomy, which was the sin of Ham when he uncovered his father's nakedness (see Rashi on Gen. 9:22). Sodomy is an extreme violation of the Covenant, which decrees that human sexuality is to be elevated to serve as the bond that brings husband and wife together in procreating and raising holy souls. Instead of this, sodomy degrades and abuses man's highest creative power, his seed, throwing it into the very gutter, the part of the body designed to expel poisonous waste and filth. Sodomy degrades both the passive partner, who is subjugated and used, and the active partner, who is turned into a selfish, lustful animal” (On the destruction of Sodom)
Which does not mean that in the Holy Land of Israel, the Land of the Bible which you quote ( consider that all the Hebrew prophets except one, only preached in the land of Israel), that Tel Aviv is about to cease being the Mecca of the Gay, for the simple reason that Israel is not a theocracy. Nor is Nigeria, the holy Nigerian Constitution notwithstanding. On the other hand, even if the Bible and the Quran serve as the moral foundations of Nigeria’s legislation on private sexual practices of Nigeria’s citizens, the constitution was not written in stone, is amenable to change and I guess that it can be amended, unless of course tomorrow’s Boko Haram Revolution sweeps it aside altogether and imposes Sharia Law on everybody’s ass including the homosexual practitioners. ( I imagine that if someone in this forum had been focused on prominent male buttocks instead of the female protrusion entitled “Carrying the treasure across the road”, Baba Kadiri would have taken an even much stronger moral stand…
Apart from preaching traditional Yoruba attitudes, Bible, Quran and the Nigerian Constitution of today, can Baba Kadiri suggest any plans on how to deal with that aspect of human nature, apart from the mass execution (genocide) or mass incarceration of such practitioners. As to the death penalty – imagine, a future time when such draconian measures would be repealed and the regret about those already executed who, sadly, cannot be brought back to life?
Fortunately, or unfortunately, Nigeria has not yet got to the point where there are any discussions about same-sex marriage being sanctified by church or (God forbid) in the mosque.
This is recent news: 100 Orthodox Rabbis Issue Same Sex Marriage Declaration
On Sunday, 8 December 2019 18:09:58 UTC+1, ogunlakaiye wrote:
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/60b3e613-04e9-40bc-9049-b73743c6bbff%40googlegroups.com.
Salimonu Kadiri
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Baba Kadiri,
I see the light.
“So, the homosexual practice in itself is not your primary concern in this discussion” – there are other important issues such as Nigerians “dying of cholera caused by drinking and preparing food with contaminated water.”
But you realise that if you were born a homosexual, you would be feeling differently, of course. I suppose that you, in particular, could be feeling like a pitiful criminal, under such a law. O less than omniscient one, I know that you are going to say what you have said before, that no one is born homosexual, so let's move on to other aspects of hate speech that could feature in the Nigerian Hate Speech Bill, so that we don’t inadvertently transgress its limits.
I hope that you have also taken note of the fact that a lot of hate speech and hateful speech has been directed at our much-vilified Brethren, collectively as the Fulani Herdsmen and Miyetti Allah.
It appears that there are also among us those who don’t seem to understand that some of their expressions of islamophobia which they sometimes use as a rallying point or as a unifying political force, and feeling themselves culturally” better” or “superior” to Muslims and their consequent hostility to Islam and to Muslim qualifies as hate speech and that it is often this kind of hate speech that leads to hate crime
It could be a circus having to drag so many people to court, to be charged with hate speech.
There’s the nightmare scenario presented by kinds of colourful hate speech usually based on what we understand to be tribalism, sometimes, one tribe accusing another tribe of “cannibalism” and of course the kinds of counter-accusations, all leading to violent outcomes
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OLAYINKA AGBETUYI
Baba Kadiri,
I see the light.
“So, the homosexual practice in itself is not your primary concern in this discussion” – there are other important issues such as Nigerians “dying of cholera caused by drinking and preparing food with contaminated water.”
But you realise that if you were born a homosexual, you would be feeling differently, of course. I suppose that you, in particular, could be feeling like a pitiful criminal, under such a law. O less than omniscient one, I know that you are going to say what you have said before, that no one is born homosexual, so let's move on to other aspects of hate speech that could feature in the Nigerian Hate Speech Bill, so that we don’t inadvertently transgress its limits.
I hope that you have also taken note of the fact that a lot of hate speech and hateful speech has been directed at our much-vilified Brethren, collectively as the Fulani Herdsmen and Miyetti Allah.
It appears that there are also among us those who don’t seem to understand that some of their expressions of islamophobia which they sometimes use as a rallying point or as a unifying political force, and feeling themselves culturally” better” or “superior” to Muslims and their consequent hostility to Islam and to Muslim qualifies as hate speech and that it is often this kind of hate speech that leads to hate crime
It could be a circus having to drag so many people to court, to be charged with hate speech.
There’s the nightmare scenario presented by kinds of colourful hate speech usually based on what we understand to be tribalism, sometimes, one tribe accusing another tribe of “cannibalism” and of course the kinds of counter-accusations, all leading to violent outcomes
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/10c28896-32c7-4853-a776-984d08c3793c%40googlegroups.com.
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
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Cornelius Hamelberg
Lord OAA,
With regard to that which we all to some extent plead guilty, the ethno-phobia or ethnic bias across the federation and the problem of equality in the eyes of the law, imagine the miscreants being dragged to court to face the music outside of their local, safe ethno-comfort zones and therefore protesting that such tribunals would be biased (far from impartial) and that in the name of justice, they want to be tried by their peers, their own ethnic peers.
Then there’s all the nauseous corruption that His Imperial Majesty Baba Kadiri has recently, so painstakingly delineated as being the warp and woof that inheres the very fabric currently known as the Naija judiciary.
Understandably, the myriad problems that could be faced by some of the Islamophobic Southerners - after violently resisting arrest, being abducted to appear before the Police Magistrate at Court Number 5 in Kano, to face charges of hate crimes inspired by Islamophobia and allegedly committed “in the name of the Lord”. Abducted to the Kano jurisdiction where the alleged Islamophobic hate crime was committed and to be sentenced according to the wrath of the presiding Muslim magistrate.
I imagine that some of the Nigerian Jews could be smart enough to neutralise some of the judges of whom His Imperial Majesty Baba Kadiri, of course, does not approve, but to whom some of the bani-Israel of Nigeria could resort with the only known tactic (normal praxis) that would guarantee some Naija judges’ neutrality, as per this joke that appears under the headline ”anti-Semitism ” ( you’ve heard it before):
“The Duke of Mannheim said to the Jewish scholar, Rabbi Isaac Brill:
"They say that Jews who come before the courts try to buy the favour
of the judges with large amounts of money. Isn't it unjust to bribe
the judge in order to bend the law?"
The Rabbi answered:
"The law isn't bent this way - on the contrary. Let me explain. When a
Jew and a Christian have an argument and come to stand before a
Christian judge, it is natural that the judge, to start with, is
prejudiced in favour of the Christian. The money that the Jewish party
gives to the judge, motivates the judge to steer his opinion away from the
Christian bias and to become completely impartial!"
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