INVITATION TO MY TALK AT THE UNIVERSITY OF JOHANNESBURG

308 views
Skip to first unread message

Jonathan Okeke

unread,
Oct 29, 2020, 4:01:27 PM10/29/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com, Isa-scholars

Dear All,

I am attaching the invitation to my talk tomorrow. I hope you are able to join. 
11:20 AM South African Time


Thank you
--

Jonathan O Chimakonam

Department of Philosophy

University of Pretoria

My latest book: Logic and African Philosophy: Seminal Essays on African Systems of Thought (Vernon Press, 2020)

Available at 24% discount (using code CFC171611B2 on checkout): https://vernonpress.com/book/944

or on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Logic-African-Philosophy-Seminal-Systems/dp/1622738829/




UJ_Philosophy_Colloquium_CHIMAKONAM_30Oct2020_INVITE (1).pdf

Gloria Emeagwali

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 3:30:50 AM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com, Isa-scholars
I  believe that 11.30am in Johannesburg  may be 5.30 am  on the US East  Coast.

Toyin Falola does not sleep,  so 
that fits into his schedule 😁
in Texas, an hour earlier, at 4.30a.

Nigerian participants can join at 
4.30p.

Congrats on your new book. I hope
you saw my review of Ezumezu in “Choice”...

Gloria Emeagwali

On Oct 29, 2020, at 16:01, Jonathan Okeke <jonathans...@gmail.com> wrote:


--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CALtFap1QSTFQXYPBytAoKVcpQ0v%3DMEtw6POYd%2BEWgM42a8MT1Q%40mail.gmail.com.
<UJ_Philosophy_Colloquium_CHIMAKONAM_30Oct2020_INVITE (1).pdf>

Biko Agozino

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 3:30:50 AM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Interesting topic. I may not make it because 5am is a bit too early for me to join from EST. 

I hope that you will go beyond the micro or individual level of analysis to talk about the international and intergroup dimensions of Nkalli or domination and the resistance to such will to power by democratic tendencies that emphasize that isi aka isi or no head is greater than another meaning equality, Igbo ama eze or the Igbo know no king, inwe onwe anyi or our collective self-ownership, meaning freedom and egbe belu ugo belu or let the kite perch and let the eagle perch in mutual respect and tolerance.

Biko

Jonathan Okeke

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 4:14:35 AM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Dear All,

Warm greetings. 
The talk is 11:20AM South African time. 10:20AM Nigerian time. Perhaps, you can use the Nigerian time to do the conversation. 

Dear Gloria, I have not, but I guess I will look for it now. Many thanks.

Regards, 
JOC

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/1434816788.617604.1604017960454%40mail.yahoo.com.

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 2:31:50 PM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com

Biko

'Igbo know no king', but they have always had leaders by other names:  owelle, ikemba and Eze.  So whats the big deal about ' Igbo know no kings  even if this is accurate? (but this statement has been challenged by another Igbo on this forum)

Whats all this misleading subtext that the Igbo have always been socialists who have no classes about?

No Igbo that I know will buy that from you. So you are all on your own.

When you were promoted to the rank of professor why did you not reject the promotion that it is divisive to the working class, insisting you are on the same rank with a new appointee?


OAA


Mr President you took an oath to rule according to the Constitution.

Where are the schools to promote the teaching of the country's lingua francas?



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.



-------- Original message --------
From: 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 30/10/2020 07:42 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - INVITATION TO MY TALK AT THEUNIVERSITY  OF JOHANNESBURG

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (usaafric...@googlegroups.com) Add cleanup rule | More info
Interesting topic. I may not make it because 5am is a bit too early for me to join from EST. 

I hope that you will go beyond the micro or individual level of analysis to talk about the international and intergroup dimensions of Nkalli or domination and the resistance to such will to power by democratic tendencies that emphasize that isi aka isi or no head is greater than another meaning equality, Igbo ama eze or the Igbo know no king, inwe onwe anyi or our collective self-ownership, meaning freedom and egbe belu ugo belu or let the kite perch and let the eagle perch in mutual respect and tolerance.

Biko

On Thursday, 29 October 2020, 16:08:31 GMT-4, Jonathan Okeke <jonathans...@gmail.com> wrote:


--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/usaafricadialogue/CALtFap1QSTFQXYPBytAoKVcpQ0v%3DMEtw6POYd%2BEWgM42a8MT1Q%40mail.gmail.com.

Ibrahim Abdullah

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 2:34:29 PM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Please don't start another war--Comrade Biko is an Igbo essentialist. 

Biko Agozino

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 4:05:43 PM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Even in a democracy, there are leaders. But the leaders in a democracy are not kings who dominate the people. Anyone who has ever been a full Professor will tell you that it does not mean that you are a monarch who dominates others. The Academy is better understood as a democracy even though there is hierarchy of seniority and emphasis on meritocracy. The full Professor is not necessarily more knowledge than an Assistant Professor because they may specialize in different narrow areas and the Assistant Professor may be the one who makes a breakthrough discovery that shifts the paradigm in a discipline. 

The Igbo operate in the same way by respecting knowledgeable elders who behave morally and ethically while allowing infants who have washed their hands clean to eat from the same bowl with the elders. Yes, the word, Eze, is an Igbo word originally referring to excellence in any field of life. Eze Muo refers to a Chief Priest like Eze Nri who was never a monarch over the Igbo but could be consulted by anyone who needed top make sacrifices to the ancestors. The institution of kings among the Igbo was documented by Nzimiro but Uchendu dismissed them as 'intrusive traits' from their more monarchical neighbors. 

Igbo women waged wars against the Warrant Chiefs and forced the British to abolish such offices among the Igbo. Hence, under the Mcpherson's and Richard's constitutions, the Northern and Western Regions had bicameral houses of legislature - the House of Natural or Traditional Rulers and the Legislative House of Assembly. Only the South East was unicameral, without a House of Chiefs, but Zik should have negotiated another House of Senate or Elders for the East. Obasanjo imposed Chiefs on the Igbo after the Biafra war but the democratic tendencies underscored by the saying that the Igbo know no king and that all heads are equal cannot be abolished by military dictators. The Nigerian constitution is a republican constitution that knows no king just like the US constitution that was plagiarized by Nigeria without understanding the anti-monarchical foundation.

Max Weber got it wrong when he stipulated that the ideal rational bureaucracy is always the technically superior way to administer any system with reliance on trained professionals, a hierarchy of authority, and written rules. That was exactly how the Nazi officials were organized but they were not technically superior to the Red Army officers who, though bureaucratic too, had something that the Nazis lacked, compassion and commitment to the defense of the great October Revolution. Weber was actually against what he called 'headless democracies' or pure democracy of the Igbo type praised by Soyinka as a model for Africa but Weber was wrong. 

Democracy is an unqualified human good and although it is always difficult to administer, the problems of democracy are better solved with more democracy rather than less. Africans want to deepen democracy and not to return to feudalism because that would be retrogressive. The leaderless #EndSARS uprising is evidence of democracy in action. Any monarchist who has anything against democracy should spell it out without assuming that the Igbo must be monarchical too.

Biko

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 4:49:46 PM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com


Soieties that have kings also do those things you enunerate. In fact the kingship system and the hierarchy of chiefs recognises achievements in the installations.  

Not all monarchies dominate as I have maintained here.  Who is Her Majesty the Queen dominating?   Who is the Obi of Onitsha dominating?Just because you dont understand a system does not mean you can denigrate it.

Go and tell Donald Trump that in democratic societies leaders dont dominate!

The instinct to dominate( both others and the environment) is a psychological human constant and defence mechanism irrespective of political system adopted  as psychoanalysis teaches us.  Only society can curb this.


OAA.



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: 'Biko Agozino' via USA Africa Dialogue Series <usaafric...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 30/10/2020 20:06 (GMT+00:00)
Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - INVITATION TO MY TALK ATTHEUNIVERSITY   OF JOHANNESBURG

Boxbe This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (usaafric...@googlegroups.com) Add cleanup rule | More info
Even in a democracy, there are leaders. But the leaders in a democracy are not kings who dominate the people. Anyone who has ever been a full Professor will tell you that it does not mean that you are a monarch who dominates others. The Academy is better understood as a democracy even though there is hierarchy of seniority and emphasis on meritocracy. The full Professor is not necessarily more knowledge than an Assistant Professor because they may specialize in different narrow areas and the Assistant Professor may be the one who makes a breakthrough discovery that shifts the paradigm in a discipline. 

The Igbo operate in the same way by respecting knowledgeable elders who behave morally and ethically while allowing infants who have washed their hands clean to eat from the same bowl with the elders. Yes, the word, Eze, is an Igbo word originally referring to excellence in any field of life. Eze Muo refers to a Chief Priest like Eze Nri who was never a monarch over the Igbo but could be consulted by anyone who needed top make sacrifices to the ancestors. The institution of kings among the Igbo was documented by Nzimiro but Uchendu dismissed them as 'intrusive traits' from their more monarchical neighbors. 

Igbo women waged wars against the Warrant Chiefs and forced the British to abolish such offices among the Igbo. Hence, under the Mcpherson's and Richard's constitutions, the Northern and Western Regions had bicameral houses of legislature - the House of Natural or Traditional Rulers and the Legislative House of Assembly. Only the South East was unicameral, without a House of Chiefs, but Zik should have negotiated another House of Senate or Elders for the East. Obasanjo imposed Chiefs on the Igbo after the Biafra war but the democratic tendencies underscored by the saying that the Igbo know no king and that all heads are equal cannot be abolished by military dictators. The Nigerian constitution is a republican constitution that knows no king just like the US constitution that was plagiarized by Nigeria without understanding the anti-monarchical foundation.

Max Weber got it wrong when he stipulated that the ideal rational bureaucracy is always the technically superior way to administer any system with reliance on trained professionals, a hierarchy of authority, and written rules. That was exactly how the Nazi officials were organized but they were not technically superior to the Red Army officers who, though bureaucratic too, had something that the Nazis lacked, compassion and commitment to the defense of the great October Revolution. Weber was actually against what he called 'headless democracies' or pure democracy of the Igbo type praised by Soyinka as a model for Africa but Weber was wrong. 

Democracy is an unqualified human good and although it is always difficult to administer, the problems of democracy are better solved with more democracy rather than less. Africans want to deepen democracy and not to return to feudalism because that would be retrogressive. The leaderless #EndSARS uprising is evidence of democracy in action. Any monarchist who has anything against democracy should spell it out without assuming that the Igbo must be monarchical too.

Biko

On Friday, 30 October 2020, 14:31:48 GMT-4, OLAYINKA AGBETUYI <yagb...@hotmail.com> wrote:


--
Listserv moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin
To post to this group, send an email to USAAfric...@googlegroups.com
To subscribe to this group, send an email to USAAfricaDial...@googlegroups.com
Current archives at http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue
Early archives at http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "USA Africa Dialogue Series" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to usaafricadialo...@googlegroups.com.

OLAYINKA AGBETUYI

unread,
Oct 30, 2020, 6:13:00 PM10/30/20
to usaafric...@googlegroups.com
Was the October Revolution leaderless?

What do you call the role of Lenin and Stalin then?

Even the Russian fantasy is not as deep as the one you construct on behalf of the Igbo.  That the monarchical system is not pervasive among the Igbo does not mean the system is not integral to Igbo society as an Igbo member of this forum has argued.  Conversely nit all Yoruba societies are monarchical.  It spread gradually through Yoruba land as you allege it is spreading from outside through Igbo land.

That is called the process of socialisation and you as a professor of sociology should know better than to think you can stop it with Marxist thought.


OAA
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages