Installing keyboard layouts on Sequoia 15.4.1

[John Brownie]

I’ve been struggling with some changes to the installation done with the Organiser, and it looks like the method I’ve been using for a long time no longer works. As far as I can tell, the sandbox daemon (the operating system’s low-level security checker) is denying permission to access the /Library/Keyboard Layouts folder. If this is true, then it means that there is no way for Ukelele to install for all users from within the application, and would mean another rethink of things.

Can anyone verify that they are being blocked on Sequoia from doing an installation? Just try installing a keyboard layout for all users, and see if the file actually moved into the correct folder.

John

[Gé van Gasteren]

Hi John,

I routinely install only for "current user" and have forgotten which folder is the "all users" one. So:

• In [system disk] > System > Library > Keyboard Layouts I only see AppleKeyboardLayouts.bundle

• Upon installing a .keylayout file for All Users with the Organiser, nothing appears in the middle column there, in the above-mentioned system folder, or in [system disk] > Library > Keyboard Layouts. There is no error message, just the usual dialogs (asking for user password, Ukelele telling me to log out).

• With Ukelele’s Organiser, I can only install for Current User, i.e. into [system disk] > Users > [my user] > Library > Keyboard Layouts

This is with Ukelele 3.6b3 (426) on Sequoia 15.5 (updated yesterday).

I guess Apple is trying to make installing for all users as tamper-proof as possible.

Maybe it’s OK to go with that policy of mainly avoiding system-wide installations and just forget about installing keyboard layouts for all users?

Those who really want to do it will know how to find the right folder anyway, and then they implicitly know that it’s their own responsibility, not Ukelele’s.

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[John Brownie]

Well, that confirms what I’m seeing. I will move to remove the “Install for all users” option and write up some discussion of what has changed and how to install for all users outside of Ukelele. It does make the code simpler, but it’s sad to lose something that has been working for quite some time!

John

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[Sorin Paliga]

I have never used the Organiser, I have always moved the keylayouts or keylayout bundles manually to the folder for all users. 

I have just re-checked: deleted one such keylayout, and moved it back again. The system asked for the psswd, but it worked without any problem.

Mini M4, Sequoia 15.5

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Yes, especially if you have spent time and effort to get it to work…

In the light of Apple tightening the screws on user-installed software, I got a "sacrilegious" thought:

How feasible is it to add an export module to Ukelele for generating Keyman keyboard layouts for macOS?

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[Gé van Gasteren]

Yes Sorin, I know, that’s why I mused that cutting this feature from the Organiser wouldn’t be such a big loss, after all is said and done.

Congratulations with your nice new Mac! :-)

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[Sorin Paliga]

Congratulations with your nice new Mac! :-)

Small and powerful and pretty machine, indeed.

[John Brownie]

At this point, not feasible at all. Keyman is a very different way of describing a keyboard’s outputs, and I’m not sure if the effort to make a conversion is worthwhile. But I’ll look into it at some point and see what sort of mapping could be done…

John

[Gé van Gasteren]

On Mon, May 19, 2025 at 1:29 PM 'John Brownie' via Ukelele Users <ukelel...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

At this point, not feasible at all. Keyman is a very different way of describing a keyboard’s outputs, and I’m not sure if the effort to make a conversion is worthwhile. But I’ll look into it at some point and see what sort of mapping could be done…

John

Thanks, I was suspecting as much.

The thought came up as there is no Mac-based editor for Keyman, and with some fear in mind that at some point, Apple might completely disable the possibility of installing custom keyboard layouts in XML format.