Alec Baldwin fired the gun that killed a person on New Mexico movie set

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Steve Timko

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Oct 21, 2021, 10:52:36 PM10/21/21
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Kevin M.

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Oct 21, 2021, 11:21:16 PM10/21/21
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Normally the viewing audience are his worst victims. 

Too soon?

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 7:52 PM Steve Timko <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Brad Beam

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Oct 21, 2021, 11:43:37 PM10/21/21
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From: tvor...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin M.

>Normally the viewing audience are his worst victims. 

> 

>Too soon?

 

Chappelle says go for it.

 

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|_>|_>  Brad Beam- Belle WV

|_>|_>  http://www.facebook.com/74bmw

M-D November

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Oct 22, 2021, 12:58:20 AM10/22/21
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I hear Baldwin is killing it on this film.
fozzie-muppets.gif

PGage

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Oct 22, 2021, 8:53:23 AM10/22/21
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I have read several accounts of this horrible incident; it seems officials are leaning over backwards to avoid saying it was an accident. I assume there is no question of intentional injury (wasn’t that a plot line of a Columbo episode?) but it seems there must be some question of negligence or not following safety protocols?

On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 7:52 PM Steve Timko <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Kevin M.

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Oct 22, 2021, 9:22:13 AM10/22/21
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On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 5:53 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have read several accounts of this horrible incident; it seems officials are leaning over backwards to avoid saying it was an accident. I assume there is no question of intentional injury (wasn’t that a plot line of a Columbo episode?) but it seems there must be some question of negligence or not following safety protocols?

Whomever was in charge of props (sometimes there is a specific firearms propmaster on set, but this was supposedly a low budget indie film) is responsible for inspecting all weapons to ensure they are safe and that actors are trained in their usage. The liability will rest on that person’s shoulders, not Baldwin’s. That said, in a civil suit, they will inevitably sue whomever has the most money, regardless of actual liability, and that is likely to be Baldwin. 

And yes, the basic idea was used in Columbo. 


On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 7:52 PM Steve Timko <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Steve Timko

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Oct 22, 2021, 10:49:38 AM10/22/21
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After Jon-Erik Hexxum killed himself with a prop gun in 1984 the entertainment industry adopted much tougher rules for using guns, Jon Hamm told a hilarious story on WTF about working on a low-budget cable TV cop show where they could draw guns but couldn't fire them because they didn't have the money to hire a safety expert. So instead they always hit the bad guy in the head to knock him out.
In Nevada, felony stupid (reckless disregard) is enough to get someone charged with second degree murder in a death. I don't know what the New Mexico law is.
And then there's Baldwin's infamous temper.

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Adam Bowie

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Oct 22, 2021, 12:26:04 PM10/22/21
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Since none of us really knows the full details, I'm not going to speculate here. And I see Baldwin has just Tweeted his heartbreak: https://twitter.com/AlecBaldwin

One interesting thing I noted on Twitter elsewhere was Craig Zobel, the director of Mare of Easttown amongst others, noting that these days, doing gunshots in VFX is far easier than it used to be. On Easttown, all the gun effects were added in afterwards.

https://twitter.com/craigzobel/status/1451405649070407682

And Rian Johnson, director of Knives Out amongst others, in response to a VFX artist who similarly explained what's doable these days, points out that when shooting on film, with only 24 frames a second, you might actually miss the gunflare that you're no doubt hoping to capture.

https://twitter.com/rianjohnson/status/1451438949440892928

While VFX adds cost, I suspect that these kinds of shots are pretty easy to do. In any event, I'm sure it'll become much more the norm in the wake of this accident.



Adam

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Bob Jersey

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Oct 22, 2021, 4:06:32 PM10/22/21
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Frrreshhhh from the Dog Trainer, to whom I just paid $1 for six months: 6 camera-crew members walked off the set in protest hours before the incident, sources said... as my mother would have said, Alec's ass is grass...


B

Adam Bowie, to Steve Timko, Kevin M, and PGage, Oct 22nd:

Kevin M.

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Oct 22, 2021, 5:00:34 PM10/22/21
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I’ve been on the record disliking Alec Baldwin long before it was fashionable, not because of his politics, but because of a combination of his lack of character and lack of talent. But as they tend to do, conservative social media (and more than a few high ranking GOP politicians) are vilifying the guy before any of the facts are in. I cannot stand Baldwin, but I don’t believe he intended to actually shoot or kill anyone. If it turns out decisions to cut corners on crew safety were made by him, that’d certainly be in keeping with his reputation as a bastard, but we don’t know that yet. I’m fully prepared to have another reason to dislike a Baldwin brother, but I’ll hold off until I know more details. 

In the meantime, if Baldwin had an ounce of compassion, he’d pay the whole crew out of his own pocket for the full scheduled duration of the shoot, but scrub the project… this is not a film anybody needs to see, and the public relations cost to release the film is going to be larger than any profit made from the picture. 

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Bob Jersey

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Oct 22, 2021, 6:54:10 PM10/22/21
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This Deadline piece lists a bunch of other producers involved, plus a couple of financiers including the vaunted CAA, so how invested Baldwin is in it remains to be seen.


Still, that won't rule out a total scrap as Kevin suggested, given some critics will invoke at least one of the Hexum incident, the Brandon Lee death on "The Crow," or even the Vic Morrow death from Twilight Zone: The Movie, even though it involved much-larger-scale explosives than the prop gun.

B

Kevin M, to moi and Adam, Oct 22nd:

Bob Jersey

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Oct 22, 2021, 7:08:02 PM10/22/21
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The state's version of OSHA is on the case, and could impose its own penalties even if criminal charges don't ensue.


B

Bob Jersey

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Oct 22, 2021, 8:16:44 PM10/22/21
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Here's Aypee's version: an assistant director handed Alec the gun, ASS-uming it wasn't loaded...


B

Kevin M.

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Oct 24, 2021, 10:44:58 AM10/24/21
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Looks like a potential scapegoat has been named 


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Tom Wolper

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Oct 24, 2021, 1:37:27 PM10/24/21
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On Sun, Oct 24, 2021 at 10:44 AM Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
There are a lot of articles out there now with interviews with prop masters and armorers about what the safety protocols are and what went wrong. They all say safety is the responsibility of the first assistant director. There might be other ripples of responsibility that emanate out from this, like the money people not approving a budget that would assure safety, but it's not scapegoating to hold the first AD accountable.

Kevin M.

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Oct 24, 2021, 2:01:46 PM10/24/21
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Claudia Black, of Farscape and SG-1 fame, wrote a good Twitter thread about being on a set with firearms. 


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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Kevin M.

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Oct 25, 2021, 9:34:15 PM10/25/21
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The Trump family handling the situation exactly as you expect they would 

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Bob Jersey

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Oct 26, 2021, 2:23:51 PM10/26/21
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The chairperson of the state Senate Labor committee reacts as well... with a guns-and-ammo-ban bill...


B

Kevin M, Oct 25th:

Brad Beam

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Oct 26, 2021, 5:45:41 PM10/26/21
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From: 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV [mailto:tvor...@googlegroups.com]

>The chairperson of the state Senate Labor committee reacts as well... with a guns-and-ammo-ban bill...

> 

 

Elsewhere:

Ireland pays it forward, defending her father with a  “rude, thoughtless pig”-worthy response to conservative no-goodnik Candace Owens.

https://god.dailydot.com/ireland-baldwin-candace-owens

Kevin M.

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Oct 26, 2021, 5:47:18 PM10/26/21
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I’m not a gun advocate, and I have no love of the 2nd Amendment, however, the problem would seem to be one of adhering to and enforcing the very strict safety protocols and procedures. In this specific instance, the problem is not the guns. That said, if realism can be faked (forgive the irony) without actual weaponry on set, then so be it. 

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Bob Jersey

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Oct 27, 2021, 3:39:42 PM10/27/21
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LAT thinkin' it's a good time to 'splain the deal with actors being credited as producers, also common in TV:


B

Moi, Oct 22nd:

Steve Timko

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Nov 3, 2021, 1:31:07 PM11/3/21
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This is a really deep dive into the facts of the case and some speculation on possible legal ramifications.


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Bob Jersey

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Dec 7, 2021, 5:42:11 PM12/7/21
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Alec quits Twitter, again, following his seemingly-confident interview with Stephanopoulos...


B

Steve Timko, to moi, Nov 3rd:

Bob Jersey

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Dec 17, 2021, 10:08:17 AM12/17/21
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Santa Fe cops have a search warrant for Baldwin's cell.


B

Moi, to Steve Timko, Dec 7th:

Bob Jersey

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Jan 14, 2022, 8:55:42 AM1/14/22
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The armourer from the production is suing the prop supplier for providing live ammo she thought were dummy bullets.

Moi, Dec 17th 2021:

Bob Jersey

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Jan 29, 2022, 10:27:42 AM1/29/22
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Said armourer was emailed by the film's line producer scolding her for paying more attention to guns than to other props for which she was also responsible... she responded, saying trying to do both jobs was "when mistakes get made"...

Moi, Jan 14th:

Bob Jersey

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Feb 15, 2022, 4:46:48 PM2/15/22
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Here's the wrongful death suit from the victim's kin...


B

Steve Timko, Oct 21st 2021:

Bob Jersey

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Feb 23, 2022, 7:39:00 PM2/23/22
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Halyna's husband, utterly p*ssed with Baldwin, taped an interview with NBC News, which will air tomorrow (24) on "Today."

Moi, to Steve Timko, Feb 15th:

Bob Jersey

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Apr 21, 2022, 10:29:59 AM4/21/22
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New Mexico fines "Rust" nearly $137k for safety violations. Court review likely. Hannah Gutierrez Reed's attorney said that had anyone from the production called her back inside the church on set, nobody would have gotten shot or killed. (Duh.)


B

Moi, Feb 23rd:

Kevin M.

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Aug 13, 2022, 2:04:42 AM8/13/22
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Forensic analysis of the gun indicates it could not have discharged unless the trigger had been pulled. 

This contradicts Baldwin’s claim that he didn’t pull the trigger. 


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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Bob Jersey

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Aug 16, 2022, 1:08:23 PM8/16/22
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Like the previous POTUS, he continues to repeat the narrative, this time to a podcasting Chris Cuomo (strange bedfellows, anyone?)


STFU, already...     B

Kevin M, to moi, Aug 13th:

PGage

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Aug 16, 2022, 2:13:26 PM8/16/22
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It is very Trump like that he keeps focusing on denying A) that he did something that he almost certainly did do and B) that is secondary to the main tragedy/potential crime.

I suppose if he admitted that he pulled the trigger it would open him up to public criticism and perhaps civil liability for contributory negligence, but as he himself says, the real issue is why was there live ammunition in the gun. Unless we are going full Columbo we don’t really think he contrived to intentionally murder the woman by replacing the blank with live ammo himself.

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Bob Jersey

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Sep 26, 2022, 6:57:41 PM9/26/22
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Santa Fe DA granted funding (about half what was originally requested last month) for as many as four prosecutions related to the Hutchins shooting; while she reiterated that Baldwin is a possible defendant, his attorney noted that she has yet to read the sheriff's report...
B

Bob Jersey

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Oct 5, 2022, 10:15:32 AM10/5/22
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Settlement reached. Filming to resume with Halyna Hutchins' husband as an executive. Prosecutions still happening.
B

Moi, Sept 26th:

Bob Jersey

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Nov 2, 2022, 10:18:52 AM11/2/22
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Baldwin's motion to be removed from the civil suit by Rust's script supervisor slamdunked by LA County court...
B

Moi, Oct 5th:

Kevin M.

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Nov 12, 2022, 12:08:06 AM11/12/22
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Baldwin is suing others… basically hoping to suggest anyone else is to blame for the gun he was forensically proven to have fired 


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Kevin M. (RPCV)

Bob Jersey

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Jan 18, 2023, 5:14:45 PM1/18/23
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Santa Fe DA to reveal tomorrow (1/19) their decision on filing charges. Expect a press release no earlier than 11 AM east.


B

Moi, Oct 5th 2022:

Bob Jersey

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Jan 19, 2023, 4:28:32 PM1/19/23
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Involuntary manslaughter (max 18 months prison) and enhancement for use of a firearm (min 5 years) charges against Baldwin and Gutierrez Reed. First-assistant director David Halls pleads guilty to a negligent weapon use charge (probation)  Official charges will be filed by the end of this month.


B

Moi, Jan 18th:
Santa Fe DA to reveal tomorrow (1/19) their decision on filing charges. Expect a press release no earlier than 11 AM east.

Kevin M.

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Jan 19, 2023, 11:16:54 PM1/19/23
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There seems to be evidence of negligence on set at least in part by Baldwin as producer. As he’s also the one who pulled the trigger, his guilt seems doubly obvious. 

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

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Jan 20, 2023, 9:59:55 AM1/20/23
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I think he is being tried for his actions as an actor. Seems like there are 2 issues: 1) Did he pull the trigger? (he says he did not and gun fired due to a malfunction; investigation concluded gun functioned properly and would only fire if trigger pulled) and 2) Does an actor have an affirmative duty to check a prop gun before firing, regardless of what he was told about its load (Prosecutors say yes, definitely, so Baldwin’s claim that he was told there were no live rounds is irrelevant).

Steve Timko

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Jan 22, 2023, 1:37:55 PM1/22/23
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TMZ reports Baldwin will not be charged for pulling the trigger.
Shows how laws differ by state. Felony stupid is enough to merit a second degree murder charge in Nevada.

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Kevin M.

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Jan 22, 2023, 2:56:39 PM1/22/23
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Guns don’t kill people; people kill people. Unless the person holding the gun is a Baldwin, in which case guns kill people.

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David Bruggeman

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Jan 22, 2023, 5:15:46 PM1/22/23
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Felony stupid in most states qualifies you for Florida residency.

As for the stupid in this piece - while it's explained why the DA isn't going to charge Baldwin in the shooting of the director, it does nothing to explain why the circumstances are different enough that the DA intends to charge Baldwin in the death of the cinematographer.  If it matters that only one of the victims died, why not say so?  I doubt the question is that difficult to answer.

Not that I expect clarity from TMZ, but this piece raises more questions than it answers.  I'll wait for Legal Eagle to get around to this on YouTube for some answers.

David

Brad Beam

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Jan 22, 2023, 5:45:51 PM1/22/23
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From: 'David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV [mailto:tvor...@googlegroups.com]

>Not that I expect clarity from TMZ, but this piece raises more questions than it answers.  I'll wait for Legal Eagle to get around to this on YouTube for some answers.

 

Fwiw, here is Legal Eagle's first draft on the case, posted a year ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXmAeMQCvZQ

 

Bob Jersey

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Feb 9, 2023, 10:27:23 PM2/9/23
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Halyna Hutchins' parents and sister sue Baldwin, company and crew for her wrongful death...


B

 

Bob Jersey

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Mar 14, 2023, 10:55:33 PM3/14/23
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After convincing an L.A. judge to pause the civil case against him, the criminal case is also on hold after Andrea Reed, the special prosecutor whom also was elected to the New Mexico legislature, stepped away as the former following accusations of constitutional conflict from the Baldwin team...


B

Moi, Feb 9th:

Kevin M.

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Mar 15, 2023, 1:17:52 AM3/15/23
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Prolonging this trial (these trials) might be beneficial to Baldwin from a legal standpoint, but the bad press of this being the only thing anybody currently associates with Alec Baldwin isn’t going to be good for his career and image. He shot a couple of people. Granted, he’s not Kyle Rittenhouse, but he might as well be at this point. Heck, Rittenhouse’s lunatic right wing Nazi following keeps him financially secure, so he might be better off than Alec in the long term.  

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PGage

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Mar 15, 2023, 10:36:22 AM3/15/23
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Maybe I am naive but I think Baldwin’s career is already over, regardless of the outcome. He is at real legal jeopardy here, and the only thing that matters (for him) is limiting that jeopardy. I think his legal team has already done a good job for him, getting charges reduced and getting a super-charged adversary removed from the prosecution. I also think his lawyers were absolutely right on both issues.



Tom Wolper

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Mar 15, 2023, 11:00:43 AM3/15/23
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Baldwin is at an age where lots and lots of people retire and like many of those people it might not be his choice. Hollywood can certainly get along without his services.

The difference between Baldwin and Rittenhouse is intent. Baldwin did not aim his weapon or even pull the trigger with the intention of hurting anyone else. While the negligence might have been criminal it’s tough to convince a jury to deprive a person of their freedom for years because of an accident.

I remember reading that 95% of criminal cases result in a plea deal. Prosecutors make up a maximal list of charges in order to negotiate them down. A high profile jury trial is going to be a toss up and if the prosecution can’t get Baldwin’s side to settle they will have to review the charges and figure out what they can convince a jury of, and it’s probably much less than the current charges.

Tom Wolper

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Apr 20, 2023, 5:52:13 PM4/20/23
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Charges against Baldwin were dropped today.

Kevin M.

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Apr 20, 2023, 6:10:34 PM4/20/23
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One hopes that civil litigation can help sort out liability. I maintain that although Baldwin pulling the trigger was unintentional, his role as a producer who failed to uphold the safety protocols make him at fault. 

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PGage

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Apr 20, 2023, 8:05:38 PM4/20/23
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 It was always going to be a reach to make this a criminal act by Baldwin. The AP story I read said that there was a chance the DA will re-file, but it does feel like the original DA overcharged, and the case has been shrinking ever since.

A civil case against the production seems not just more likely to be successful, but more likely to make an important difference in safety on sets. The solution is not to convict every actor who fails to double check their props, but to fine producers up the Wazoo for not enforcing proper safety procedures.

Steve Timko

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Oct 17, 2023, 2:58:08 PM10/17/23
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Prosecutors seek a manslaughter charge against Baldwin.


Prosecutors seeking to recharge Actor Alec Baldwin in fatal shooting on movie set

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Kevin M.

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Oct 17, 2023, 3:02:43 PM10/17/23
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Again, if they have evidence that the decisions he made as producer (i.e. disregarding safety policies) allowed a loaded gun to be placed in his hands, then he is guilty. If not, then he isn’t. 

PGage

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Oct 18, 2023, 5:31:20 AM10/18/23
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Perhaps, but guilty of what? The article seems to suggest they have new evidence to support the original charge of involuntary manslaughter. Originally the focus was on whether Baldwin just cocked the hammer (as he claimed) or pulled the trigger. Early tests suggested the gun could have gone off without pulling the trigger, but now apparently new evidence indicates fir gun to have fired the trigger had to be pulled. None of that relates to negligence regarding safety protocols on set. Those issues seem to be the subject of civil litigation.

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