"30 Rock" blackface episodes parked

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Bob Jersey

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Jun 23, 2020, 5:05:00 PM6/23/20
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Four of them, at the request of Fey and Carlock.


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Carlton Doerner

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Jun 23, 2020, 5:22:13 PM6/23/20
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On iTunes, I own the complete series set and the episodes are still there for me to watch, but it seems they have now pulled the complete series set from being able to be purchased at this time. Also the individual seasons have the episodes pulled.


Carlton



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Kevin M.

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Jun 24, 2020, 4:17:35 PM6/24/20
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Scrubs episodes are also now gone.

I don’t remember them.


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Doug Eastick

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Jun 24, 2020, 11:18:23 PM6/24/20
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At least they identified the episodes. Pretty sure I have whole series.

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Joe Hass

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Jun 25, 2020, 2:58:27 AM6/25/20
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I am really conflicted about one part of this: Live From 6H.

I know the scene almost by heart. It remains the funniest from the entire run of the series. It is a perfect match between Hamm and Morgan.

I remember watching this on my TiVo and literally convulsing on the floor as things progressed.

Eight years later, my wife can say "Banjo!" and I will at best start laughing and at worst fall to the ground like Tim Conway in response to Vicki Lawrence in the legendary Elephant outtake from Carol Burnett.

To tie this with another thread: if you can't appreciate that this use of blackface is different than the others in the same way that the Major's use of a racial slur in The Germans on Fawlty Towers is different than others, that's a you problem, not a me problem.

My fear now is that we're past the point of acknowledging that certain things aren't funny and have simply started a big ass memory hole of shit that contains questionable shit from a different time. As some who is very sensitive towards self-censorship, I don't like this one bit.

M-D November

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Jun 25, 2020, 11:53:34 AM6/25/20
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I'm conflicted about the pulling of the 30Rock live show as well. That episode used the flashback sequences as a way to hang a lantern on the stereotypes, racism, sexism, etc. present in TV throughout the ages. The sketch in question, being a direct call-out of "Amos & Andy", does a great job of pointing out the inherent racism in early TV (and radio before it). I understand why Fey would want it pulled given the current climate, but I'd love to see it come back with context added at some point.

In contrast, the "Scrubs" episodes just used blackface for laughs, so I've got no issue pulling those down.

Kevin M.

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Jun 25, 2020, 1:07:38 PM6/25/20
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Semi related, Disney just announced all references to Song of the South will be removed from Splash Mountain; the ride will be rethemed with characters and music from Princess and the Frog.

Finally get that bluebird off my shoulder. 

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:53 AM M-D November <mdnov...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm conflicted about the pulling of the 30Rock live show as well. That episode used the flashback sequences as a way to hang a lantern on the stereotypes, racism, sexism, etc. present in TV throughout the ages. The sketch in question, being a direct call-out of "Amos & Andy", does a great job of pointing out the inherent racism in early TV (and radio before it). I understand why Fey would want it pulled given the current climate, but I'd love to see it come back with context added at some point.

In contrast, the "Scrubs" episodes just used blackface for laughs, so I've got no issue pulling those down.

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Kevin M.

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Jun 25, 2020, 9:09:28 PM6/25/20
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Also semi related, this clip from Little House on the Prairie, shared on Instagram by Half-Pint herself. Does this one get banned, too?

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Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

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Jun 25, 2020, 10:35:13 PM6/25/20
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I’m not conflicted. I am strongly opposed

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bobjersey

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Jun 26, 2020, 12:38:16 PM6/26/20
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Kevin M., Thurs. (6/25):

> Also semi related, this clip from Little House on the Prairie, shared on
> Instagram by Half-Pint herself. Does this one get banned, too?
>
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CB4JvyyFri2/?igshid=taeubf3867lc

Nope. On-screen notice that it contains multiple uses of an offensive term. LH might usually be TV-PG IIRC...

B

M-D November

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Jun 26, 2020, 5:02:44 PM6/26/20
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FYI - for those of you with service from Kabletown, the pulled 30Rock episodes are still available via Peacock.  I just rewatched "Live from Studio 6H" last night.

David Bruggeman

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Jun 27, 2020, 3:08:40 AM6/27/20
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I wonder if anyone who has bothered to pay for Peacock could still watch the episodes in question.  That said, I'm not willing to pay for it just to find out.

On a related note, this Washington Post culture writer (link requires subscription, or at least registration) argues against the 30 Rock episodes being pulled.  The part of her argument I hadn't heard before is that  keeping this material away from viewers also hides the fact that various powers that be felt this was acceptable very, very recently.  Put another way, keeping this stuff available (while perhaps removing any notion that the material is acceptable) could help keep creators, distributors and the audience accountable for thinking it was ever acceptable.



Bob Jersey

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Jun 27, 2020, 8:01:08 PM6/27/20
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"The Office" (US) agrees to edit a blackface scene out of "Dwight Christmas" (2012).

In the same article, "Netflix and Hulu both also pulled the 'Advanced Dungeons & Dragons' episode of 'Community,' Variety has confirmed. In the episode, Ken Jeong’s character wears dark make-up to play a 'dark elf.'”


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Bob Jersey

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Jun 27, 2020, 9:14:04 PM6/27/20
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"The Golden Girls" removes a 1988 episode -- about Dorothy's son's plans to wed an older black woman (Rosalind Cash) -- where Rose and Blanche fail to clean off their mud packs before the bride-to-be's family visits...


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Kevin M.

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Jun 27, 2020, 9:25:33 PM6/27/20
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Worth noting that one of my first TV shows, “Your Big Break” (a dick clark production) featured regular people who sing like celebrities. During the show, they were dressed up to resemble the celebrities as closely as possible, including full hair and makeup. The casting guidelines were quite clear that no blackface was allowed. Though the same series in the UK, “Stars in their Eyes,” did allow blackface. 

Also worth noting that our unofficial policy was to not cast men as women or vice versa, which was a shame because there was a sanitation worker from New Jersey who did the best Judy Garland impersonation I’ve ever heard. 

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PGage

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Jun 29, 2020, 12:07:54 AM6/29/20
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I’m not sure who Erica Williams Simon is, but someone I follow retweeted her, and I co-sign whole heartedly...




On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
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Joe Hass

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Jun 29, 2020, 2:22:47 AM6/29/20
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PGage's email triggered a memory, which, after a little bit of research, I confirmed.

First, here's the original thread from here: https://groups.google.com/g/tvornottv/c/eyZsFAPfQRA/m/s-luyDuIfmoJ

There was a minimal controversy shortly after the episode aired about the scene in question and Hamm wearing "blackface". And I put it in quotes deliberately, because my thought at the time was "No, that wasn't blackface." because if that was supposed to be blackface, someone in makeup ought to be fired. 

Here's the first part of the segment, when we first meet Abner: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U415WQapTyKyWEX301T1z0ocBu6Xsd_h/view?usp=sharing

With eight years of distance, this was almost a second-level parody of blackface: if Hamm had come out in Danson-roasting-Goldberg blackface, that's one level, but this looked like someone had quickly realized "Oh crap: we forgot to put his makeup on and his entrance is in 20 seconds". His look was the joke of a joke.

If you watch those 19 seconds and go "that crosses a line": I'm sorry, you've missed the point so badly, I can't help you.


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Dave Sikula

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Jun 29, 2020, 5:27:33 AM6/29/20
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Speaking for myself, getting rid of just one episode of "The Golden Girls" isn't anywhere near enough; shredding all of them would be a good start.. The veneration of this show has always baffled me.

--Dave Sikula

Brad Beam

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Jun 29, 2020, 10:06:27 PM6/29/20
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From the TiVo guide:

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 29, 2020, at 00:07, PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:


I’m not sure who Erica Williams Simon is, but someone I follow retweeted her, and I co-sign whole heartedly...


<IMG_2078.jpg>


On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
"The Golden Girls" removes a 1988 episode -- about Dorothy's son's plans to wed an older black woman (Rosalind Cash) -- where Rose and Blanche fail to clean off their mud packs before the bride-to-be's family visits...


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Kevin M.

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Jun 30, 2020, 10:02:58 PM6/30/20
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On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 6:14 PM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV <tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
There was also this relevant moment from “The Golden Palace” featuring Don Cheadle reacting to Blanche’s fondness for the Confederate battle flag




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Joe Hass

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Jul 1, 2020, 5:21:40 AM7/1/20
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Here's the clip on YouTube, because I had nothing else to do at 3:00 on a Wednesday morning: https://youtu.be/XVEPZI2KeQU

Bob Jersey

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Jul 1, 2020, 2:45:30 PM7/1/20
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Moi, June 27th:
"The Golden Girls" removes a 1988 episode -- about Dorothy's son's plans to wed an older black woman (Rosalind Cash) -- where Rose and Blanche fail to clean off their mud packs before the bride-to-be's family visits...



Noted in an article about a new streaming deal for the entire run of "Mad Men" -- with Amazon's IMDb TV -- that series had a character-in-blackface scene during its third season... the episode will remain unedited, but preceded by an advisory.


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Bob Jersey

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Jul 2, 2020, 9:01:13 PM7/2/20
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Variety chief TV critic Caroline Framke today made the case for not removing offending segments, including remarks from TV writer Alanna Bennett and NY professor Racquel Gates, who'd used the "Golden Girls" ep as a teaching moment.


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Joe Hass

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Jul 4, 2020, 5:57:01 AM7/4/20
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This was a fantastic item and an intelligent, thoughtful discussion of a critical point. Thanks, Bob.

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Brad Beam

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Jul 4, 2020, 9:04:14 AM7/4/20
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As expected, Hallmark clicked “Skip” on this episode, with S3E24 programmed in its place.

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