Debate #1

113 views
Skip to first unread message

Kevin M.

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 12:38:53 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan McCain. --
Kevin M. (RPCV)

David Risner

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 1:00:42 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I didn't watch it, but your comments just made my decision to not watch seem completely the right thing to do.

I do like your analogy there at the end. Quite clever. 

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020, 9:38 PM Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan McCain. --
Kevin M. (RPCV)

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com.

David Bruggeman

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 1:10:34 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I opted not to watch as well, but at least one of my upstairs housemates did and she was angry enough for me to hear it.  It sounds like Kevin was being charitable with using goat(blank).

David

Doug Eastick

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 6:54:34 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room. 

Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
Indeed it was.

Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.



On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan McCain. --
Kevin M. (RPCV)

--

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 9:36:03 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Reasonable people can disagree about the value of televised presidential debates, but what happened last night has no relevance to that discussion. That was not a debate, because one of the three  (the two candidates and the moderator) refused to participate in the debate. Trump violated every norm and value related to this process. You can’t debate a muddy pig without getting dirty, but I thought Biden did as well as could be expected. I don’t blame Wallace; short of walking out (which maybe he should have done) it’s not clear what else he or anyone else could do.

Trump made clear that he expects to lose the election, and that his plan is to invalidate the process and count on his newly packed SCOTUS to back him up. At that point, comparisons to 1933 Germany will be complete.

The Commission needs to inform both candidates that the moderators of remaining “events” will have the power to enforce the rules both campaigns agreed to, including turning off microphones when the other side has the floor, when time has expired, or when candidates ignore the direction of the moderator. If they don’t want to accept that they should not show up.

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 9:38 PM Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan McCain. --
Kevin M. (RPCV)








--


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.


To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com.


--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Paul Murray

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 9:42:25 AM9/30/20
to TVorNotTV
>   Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.  

While I have some mixed feelings about Wallace, short of being armed with a cattle prod and the ability to turn off the mics, I don't know who could have done better. When one side is determined to ignore all the agreed-upon rules, what is the other one and the moderator supposed to do?

I was watching a high-volume thread on on Reddit's r/politics, and there were lots of complaints about Wallace interrupting Biden. Afterward, I peeked into some conservative subs, and the complaining was how it was unfair that Trump had to debate both Biden and Wallace.

Now imagine being the upcoming moderators (Steve Scully and Kristen Welker) watching last night.

Diner

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 9:46:07 AM9/30/20
to TVorNotTV
Instead of the debate, I watched "The Little Mermaid" last night.
I had never seen it. Sweet movie. Good songs. Check it out.
I know at this point in life (I'll be 55 in a few days) that I need to get close to eight hours of sleep each night, so I should be in bed around 10. And I knew that watching Donald Trump for 90 minutes would raise my blood pressure so high that I would have a hard time falling asleep.
The clips I saw on the news this morning, and the reaction to the debate I've read online, have convinced me that I made the right choice.

P.S. Last year on my birthday, my sister got me the blu-ray of "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World." I think I'll watch that one on election night. Seems appropriate.

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 10:18:04 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Mad World is one of the first films I remember ever seeing in the theater. I have seen it a few times since. It was better when I was 4. Mermaid was on almost constant video loop when my girls were young. There was a time I could sing the songs word for word in my sleep, like a nail in my brain. Either would be more enjoyable than the obscenity we saw last night.

Kevin M.

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 10:19:36 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 3:54 AM Doug Eastick <eas...@mcd.on.ca> wrote:
I watched it. Actually the whole family sat down to watch it.  Fifteen minutes in, one left the room.  60 minutes in, two others left the room. 

Dana Bash of CNN called it a "shit show".
Indeed it was.

Chris Wallace failed, badly, as well.

Chris Wallace failed so badly that Mike Wallace also failed, and he’s been dead eight years 



On Wed., Sep. 30, 2020, 12:38 a.m. Kevin M., <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m willing to entertain those still of the opinion that the debates are useful for undecided voters, or that they help raise awareness of issues or policy ideas. But I endured the entire debate tonight, so I’ve got to tell you, if you’re going to defend debates after tonight, you’d better come loaded for bear. Because whatever that goatf*ck was, it served no purpose; it wasn’t even good theater. It was like watching The View, if after watching The View I was then forced to vote for either Joy Behar or Maghan McCain. --
Kevin M. (RPCV)








--


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.


To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.


To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BFJ8JxG9HOWiwFBQ13pu0fbrAwBUGm5682a4%2Bu%3DnZpOQ%40mail.gmail.com.










--


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.


To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 10:29:29 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is anything.

Adam Bowie

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 11:02:39 AM9/30/20
to tvornottv
  9pm EST is unfortunately 2am BST, so while I thought about staying up to watch at least some of the first debate - something I've done in the past - this time around I'm pretty glad that I didn't completely disrupt my sleeping patterns for the "shitshow" that emerged. 

I can't bring myself to watch the whole thing, but I do wonder whether a moderator needs to really take on a strict teacher role and not feel subservient. My room, my rules.  I sometimes wonder whether the traditional deference ("Mr President...") that reporters and interviewers give to the President has to change. 


Adam

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJ%2Bb%2BiKZoxfnEdMYKg6UYhNeO307YyXtn_oQ%3DYRj%3DVraw%40mail.gmail.com.

Kevin M.

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 11:14:13 AM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:29 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
But what did he not do that you would have wanted him to do, that he could have done? As I say, short of walking off the stage, I don’t think there is anything.

As a former teacher, there are basic skills that can be used to get even the most recalcitrant child in line. As a former Hollywood flunkie, there are basic skills that can be used to coax even the most entitled prig to take direction. It isn’t that Trump does whatever he wants or says whatever he wants... he doesn’t. The one thing he wanted last night was to be the center of attention. 

California labor law is quite clear that all employees be given ten uninterrupted minutes of break time for every four hours worked. If I’m on my sixth minute of a break, and the boss asks me a work-related question, the clock is reset and I get ten minutes starting from whenever the boss is done talking to me. All Wallace had to do, the first time Trump interrupted Biden, was to reset Biden’s two minute clock. Give Biden more uninterrupted time. Make Biden the center of attention longer; Trump would have capitulated. 

The problem is not that Trump doesn’t play by the rules; it’s that nobody (especially the Democrats) makes him play by the rules. There were a dozen other different things Wallace could have done, and even a few things Biden could have done, but instead Trump was Trump. And America is all the worse because of it. 

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 1:50:13 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back his original 2 minutes.

The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday, where he would have had more discretion.

As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t do that.

This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.

I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv, poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).

The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on Donald Trump.

Adam Bowie

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 3:09:23 PM9/30/20
to tvornottv
It sounds like the Presidential Debate Commission is going to change the rules.

'The commission said Wednesday the debate “made clear that additional structure should be added to the format of the remaining debates to ensure a more orderly discussion of the issues.”'

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-chris-wallace-campaigns-04ee2e8d54f456ee6cafdc5fe53a5d28

Of course, you change the rules and candidates can back out...



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKMqxxsR_Qtx51fE1rQnpDDO8ionVZqqKk9o0nxNHTbmg%40mail.gmail.com.

Kevin M.

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 3:36:27 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 10:50 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
Wallace did reset Biden’s clock several times, but only to get him back his original 2 minutes.

The debate moderator has much less discretion than a K-12 teacher, or any standard employee. All they can do is whatever the two campaigns agreed to with the Commission. This was not an episode of Wallace’s Fox News Sunday, where he would have had more discretion.

As I say, the only thing he could have done beyond what he did was tell Trump if he broke the rules he himself had agreed to one more time, he (Walllace) was going to end the debate and walk off the stage. Perhaps he should have, but no news person would like to make themselves the center of the story, and it’s a judgment call if that net benefits Trump anyway. I get why he didn’t do that.

As you’ve said, except that wasn’t all Wallace could have done. Within the parameters of the debate rules, his job is to ensure fairness and equal time for both men. He literally did not moderate; he asked questions then sat back and did nothing. If moderators have no power, as you keep saying, then there are no moderators... just assholes asking inane questions with no follow-up or accountability. Last night, Chris Wallace acted like an asshole instead of acting like a moderator.

This is why I say the Commission needs to tell both campaigns that remaining debates will only be held if moderator has the ability to enforce rules already agreed to by turning off mikes.

I will strongly dispute any attempt to spread blame for last night’s shit show. This was not due to Fox News, the degradations of News by cable tv, poor journalistic standards, three white old men, reliance on obsolete old school media (all of which And more I have seen blamed).

The blame for what happened last night is completely and exclusively on Donald Trump.

Trump was Trump. Neither man on stage with Trump did a damned thing to stop Trump from being Trump. In much the same way the media and the Democrats enabled his first term in office, it seems as if they are going to enable his second term as well. 

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 4:16:34 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I specifically resist your last point. Yes the media is lazy and ratings driven; yes Democrats are weak and cowardly. Those are serious but baseline problems. Trump is something qualitatively new and toxic. We don’t blame intoxicated people for getting taped; we don’t blame journalists and other politicians (R & D) for getting Trumped.

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 4:21:05 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Best possible outcome is Trump refuses to accept new rules and we have no more debates.

Unlikely, both because Trump is behind and needs the at bats to catch up, and Trump is a narcissist who needs attention more than oxygen 

Doug Fields

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 4:25:18 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com

“Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?”

 

I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated people, so I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently excludes you) absolutely *do* blame journalists and other politicians for not doing their jobs and getting Trumped.  Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’ feet to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions.  Politicians are supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens.  Too many of both groups have been shirking those duties for the last four years.

 

Doug Fields

Tampa, FL

Kevin M.

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 5:34:42 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Doug Fields <do...@flids.net> wrote:
















“Who you callin’ ‘we’, Kemosabe?”



 



I’m not familiar with the term “taped” as it applies to intoxicated people, so I can’t judge there…but many of us (the “we” that apparently excludes you) absolutely *do* blame journalists and other politicians for not doing their

jobs and getting Trumped.  Journalists are supposed to hold politicians’ feet to the fire, and make them accountable for their actions.  Politicians are supposed to work for the betterment of the country and its citizens.  Too many of both groups have been

shirking those duties for the last four years.


I second Doug’s reply. CNN and MSNBC got Trump elected. FoxNews didn’t do it; they didn’t have an audience large enough to pull that off. The cable news outlets continue to provide him with interviews and live appearances where he’s not confronted on his lies. 

The Democrats didn’t “get Trumped,” they actively participated in the process, over-confident that the public would never vote for a joke candidate. Now it is 2020. People like Bloomberg and Sanders (but a Democrat, but a party spoiler nonetheless) worked to take votes away from stronger Democratic candidates. Pelosi cow-towed to Trump regarding impeachment, and the other liberals stumble over each other to comment in the hopes nobody notices they don’t act against him. 


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 8:50:37 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I think I meant to type “raped”, and I assume I can include all of us in that.

I’m not defending bad journalists (most on TV) or weak politicians. I am saying Trump is something different.

It’s a delusion that better journalists would have prevented Trump. We the people got what we deserved 

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 1:25 PM Doug Fields <do...@flids.net> wrote:

PGage

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 10:01:57 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
So,  want to expand a little on this, because it’s important (and probably because I am now in Day 4 of my third evacuation in 4 weeks, with a scary ass fire 2,5 miles from m front door).

Donald Trump is an evil, racist, misogynistic narcissistic conman. But he has been absolutely transparent. He is EXACTLY the president he told us he was going to be. Every horrible thing he has done, trivial and profound, from lying about the size of his inaugurations crowd to the monkey masturbation and shit throwing display he engaged in last night, is consistent with the version of himself he loudly and repeatedly presented himself to be from the minute he took that ridiculous ride down the escalator. 

Americans did not elect Trump die to some failure of aggressive, incisive investigative journalism in 2015-2016. Indeed, it is likely true that there has never been a US President that voters knew more clearly and fully what he was going to be like as a candidate than Trump. Sure, the NYT and MSNBC and CNN all gave him more oxygen than he deserved, but he did not need any of it. He is not president because Joe and Mika played foodies with him for 15 months. He is President because a critical mass (not a majority, but then, that is not required) of Americans wanted exactly the kind of President Donald Trump has been, a White Nationalist who fights to reclaim whit, male, heteronormative privilege and troll liberals who aspire for Obama and King’s Beloved Community. 

With all due respect, anyone who blames mediocre journalism for Trumpmis trying to let the country off the hook. We have exactly the President we wanted, and had the media done an even better job of telling us who he was, he would have earned even more votes.

Kevin M.

unread,
Sep 30, 2020, 10:43:27 PM9/30/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 7:01 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
So,  want to expand a little on this, because it’s important (and probably because I am now in Day 4 of my third evacuation in 4 weeks, with a scary ass fire 2,5 miles from m front door).

First of all, sorry you’re having to endure that. 

Donald Trump is an evil, racist, misogynistic narcissistic conman. But he has been absolutely transparent. He is EXACTLY the president he told us he was going to be. Every horrible thing he has done, trivial and profound, from lying about the size of his inaugurations crowd to the monkey masturbation and shit throwing display he engaged in last night, is consistent with the version of himself he loudly and repeatedly presented himself to be from the minute he took that ridiculous ride down the escalator. 

Americans did not elect Trump die to some failure of aggressive, incisive investigative journalism in 2015-2016. Indeed, it is likely true that there has never been a US President that voters knew more clearly and fully what he was going to be like as a candidate than Trump. Sure, the NYT and MSNBC and CNN all gave him more oxygen than he deserved, but he did not need any of it. He is not president because Joe and Mika played foodies with him for 15 months. He is President because a critical mass (not a majority, but then, that is not required) of Americans wanted exactly the kind of President Donald Trump has been, a White Nationalist who fights to reclaim whit, male, heteronormative privilege and troll liberals who aspire for Obama and King’s Beloved Community. 

With all due respect, anyone who blames mediocre journalism for Trumpmis trying to let the country off the hook. We have exactly the President we wanted, and had the media done an even better job of telling us who he was, he would have earned even more votes.

You’re not wrong about any of that. Americans voted the bastard into office (or at least the electoral college did). But I maintain the reason so many did so is because the media sold more papers and got bigger ratings when the focus was on the crazy TV personality instead of any of the other candidates. Trump got more ink... they made him the front runner. It was the same confluence of events that begat Governor “the body” in Minnesota and Governor “Terminator” in California. All of their messages were nearly identical: “The career politicians haven’t done anything for you, so vote for me.” Serious journalists would challenge the premise, but eventually they have way because it was more fun to watch politicians flailing about trying to defend themselves. I could go on but there’s no need... it happens on TV every damned day. “Coming up, we discuss the inflammatory Trump Tweet of the day,” or “Here’s a panel discussion to discuss whether the racist thing Trump said is racist.” Meanwhile “Sleepy Joe” isn’t getting mentioned in the news because he refuses to be deliberately provocative. So the lead story is always Trump.

Changing the subject back to last night’s goatf*ck, since I’d already tortured myself watching it, today I compounded the torture by tuning into the FoxNews audio stream on my Sirius app to get their perspective on the debate. The network’s take on the debate was a textbook example of denial. Nobody denied that Trump was wrong to be an interrupting asshole... seriously, FoxNews pundits all agreed... but the reason they thought it was wrong was markedly different. The FoxNews consensus was that if Biden had been allowed to speak, he would have embarrassed himself, so because Trump interrupted him, he was actually doing Biden a favor. So they weren’t mad at the embarrassment Trump made of himself and the debate process; they were mad Trump didn’t let Biden embarrass himself more.

The one thing Biden said during the debate that FoxNews thought was wrong was when he refused to say whether he’d pack the Supreme Court if elected, because he didn’t want his answer to be a big story. So instead of his answer being a big story, his non-answer became their “gotcha” moment. “He refused to say he wouldn’t do it, so he’s definitely going to do it.” 

The other thing worth mentioning about FoxNews is that although it is widely known that Biden is far from the fringe, radical leftist that a Bernie Sanders or AOC might be, FoxNews is painting him as a candidate who is beholden to the extreme left and would force an extreme left agenda if elected. It’s an interesting (baseless) strategy, to imply a moderate/centrist would unleash extreme legislation... time will tell if it is working. 


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Tom Wolper

unread,
Oct 1, 2020, 9:49:36 AM10/1/20
to TV or not TV
On Wed, Sep 30, 2020 at 9:36 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:

The Commission needs to inform both candidates that the moderators of remaining “events” will have the power to enforce the rules both campaigns agreed to, including turning off microphones when the other side has the floor, when time has expired, or when candidates ignore the direction of the moderator. If they don’t want to accept that they should not show up.

It is a given that no matter what rules are set Trump is going to break them if it is to his perceived advantage. So the debate organizers can change the rules, get both campaigns to agree to the new rules, and at the debate Trump will still break them without a second thought. If the organizers push to make a structure where Trump can't storm and bully, his campaign will not agree to them.

There has been a great expansion of the executive branch and its powers since FDR first took office. There was always an assumption that there would be some institutional check on that power if needed and maintaining the integrity of the democracy would be more in the interest of both major parties than short term partisan advantage. Trump, along with his cronies, lawyers, and Attorney General, have challenged any attempt to hold him accountable for anything including following the law. Trump has now internalized that he can simply act with impunity and he will not be held to account. But the political institutions and political media are in denial about this and they would rather watch government operations and the rituals around the election turn into a farce than try to design the processes to account for Trump not following rules or laws.

Bob Jersey

unread,
Oct 2, 2020, 12:36:57 PM10/2/20
to TVorNotTV
Trump, as you might have seen elsewhere, and Melania have tested positive. VP and Mrs Pence were negative. Wallace told F&F: "I'm gonna have to get a test..."

The Commission needs to inform both candidates that the moderators of remaining “events” will have the power to enforce the rules both campaigns agreed to, including turning off microphones when the other side has the floor, when time has expired, or when candidates ignore the direction of the moderator. If they don’t want to accept that they should not show up.

It is a given that no matter what rules are set Trump is going to break them if it is to his perceived advantage. So the debate organizers can change the rules, get both campaigns to agree to the new rules, and at the debate Trump will still break them without a second thought. If the organizers push to make a structure where Trump can't storm and bully, his campaign will not agree to them.

There has been a great expansion of the executive branch and its powers since FDR first took office. There was always an assumption that there would be some institutional check on that power if needed and maintaining the integrity of the democracy would be more in the interest of both major parties than short term partisan advantage. Trump, along with his cronies, lawyers, and Attorney General, have challenged any attempt to hold him accountable for anything including following the law. Trump has now internalized that he can simply act with impunity and he will not be held to account. But the political institutions and political media are in denial about this and they would rather watch government operations and the rituals around the election turn into a farce than try to design the processes to account for Trump not following rules or laws.


B
 

Kevin M.

unread,
Oct 2, 2020, 4:46:15 PM10/2/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Specifically related to the debate, Wallace confirmed that Trump and his entourage arrived too late to be Covid-19 tested prior to the debate, and were “on the honor system” that they were not infected. 

--


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.


To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Kevin M.

unread,
Oct 3, 2020, 1:07:01 PM10/3/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Chris Christie tested positive. He had done debate prep with Trump, then moved over to ABC News to do commentary after the debate. Does anybody know if he was seated with the news team? I thought he was; if so, he’s probably infected the whole news team, who has infected their families. 

At this point, I’d like a class action lawsuit against Trump; his recklessness put people’s lives in danger, including his own, which personally doesn’t matter, but a president out of action is a matter of national security, so the case can be made his actions led to a national crisis. 
--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Melissa P

unread,
Oct 3, 2020, 4:12:02 PM10/3/20
to tvor...@googlegroups.com, takingupspace. 03
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages