Golden Globes worst ratings ever

144 views
Skip to first unread message

Kevin M.

unread,
Mar 2, 2021, 11:11:38 PM3/2/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Viewership down 60%

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Tom Wolper

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 11:21:22 AM3/3/21
to TV or not TV
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 11:11 PM Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
I was going to post last summer an observation I had about TV: for almost all of my life, the situation of lockdown we were in would have led to amazing ratings for network television. Everyone was stuck in their houses in the evening. Yet if there was a bump in ratings it wasn't enough to draw any attention. I ultimately never wrote it up because there was nothing to interpret from it. We all know the myriad of options and non-TV distractions.

But the above story makes my observation from last year relevant. Even if network TV shows draw more viewers than cable TV shows (streaming services don't release their numbers), network TV has become marginal to American culture and changes in ratings are no longer meaningful. People didn't tune in to the Golden Globes for the same reason they don't tune in to network TV every day.

PGage

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 12:02:37 PM3/3/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I largely agree, though I think both you and the CNN piece may be making an exaggerated, or at least still premature, obituary, both on awards shows and television. Millions of Americans still watch television every day, just a lot less than they used to. Even averagely successful broadcast shows are still a pretty good way to reach concentrated numbers of eyeballs for advertisers. 



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAJE-FiHs4ydFpdDMc7iu84-wtsRe0JOtj9vdJrJn4wTxvRHhpA%40mail.gmail.com.
--
Sent from Gmail Mobile

Adam Bowie

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 12:15:22 PM3/3/21
to tvornottv
Even allowing for the fact that I've never understood why the Golden Globes are remotely considered of interest - any more than, say, my personal picks of the last year - and even before reading the recent LAT pieces on the Hollywood Foreign Press Association as well as learning that they are as white as a sheet, I did read that this was the first year for several years that the ceremony hadn't fallen after an NFL playoff game. Also, nobody's really heard of many of the films this year because nobody* has been to the cinema and all the big releases have been pushed.

I don't doubt there are underlying reasons for awards shows' decline, but some of those might come into play.


Adam

* I realise that's a gross generalisation, and cinemas may be open where you live. Personally, I only saw Tenet in a cinema in the last 12 months, and normally go at least once every couple of weeks on average...

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLdqxDCx-LSUXg27Dxe_6b--Q4huskcf0KREZdAx%2B8wVw%40mail.gmail.com.

Brad Beam

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 12:24:31 PM3/3/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com

From: tvor...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tvor...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of PGage

>I largely agree, though I think both you and the CNN piece may be making an exaggerated, or at least still premature, obituary, both on awards shows and television. Millions of Americans still watch television every day, just a lot less than they used to. Even averagely successful broadcast shows are still a pretty good way to reach concentrated numbers of eyeballs for advertisers. 

 

I don’t want to watch a two-hour movie at home, but I will watch five one-hour programs. – Amy Poeheler (paraphrased)

 

_   _

|_>|_>  Brad Beam- Belle WV

|_>|_>  http://www.facebook.com/74bmw

M-D November

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 12:27:37 PM3/3/21
to TVorNotTV
Has anyone considered that the Golden Globes just aren't compelling TV in a GOOD year, and this year they were a complete waste of time (for all of the reasons stated above PLUS the sheer lack of any drunken celebrities)?

PGage

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 12:58:38 PM3/3/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Definitely. Award show ratings are consistently declining, and no doubt GG would have been down this year no matter what. But the huge decline made so much of by CNN are almost certainly pandemic related, and perhaps the recent stories in the news that have laid bare just what a farce the HFP is.

I noted that several, presenters somewhat desperately repeated like a mantra “during the pandemic all of us have been doing nothing but watching movies and television stuck at home”. Not sure if that is propaganda or self delusion, but clearly most Americans have not been spending their pandemic watching prestige projects (or even that’s ridiculous Sia film). Most of the projects that came anywhere near close to critical mass viewing were not nominated for one reason or another.

Tom Wolper

unread,
Mar 3, 2021, 2:23:00 PM3/3/21
to TV or not TV
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:02 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
I largely agree, though I think both you and the CNN piece may be making an exaggerated, or at least still premature, obituary, both on awards shows and television. Millions of Americans still watch television every day, just a lot less than they used to. Even averagely successful broadcast shows are still a pretty good way to reach concentrated numbers of eyeballs for advertisers.

I didn't intend an obituary. There are lots of things that build huge popularity and continue to thrive in a niche status afterward. It's the framing of the news media that treats a number decline like an inverted parabola: once the phenomenon shows a drop in numbers it's speeding to its eventual doom. That doesn't necessarily happen; sometimes the phenomenon finds a stable lower level and endures. Typewriters and print news magazines are still around even after they've lost their prominence.

Since network TV can still bring in millions of viewers, even if the numbers are nowhere near where they used to be, that will attract advertisers and that can keep the business model going. But when I still got a print newspaper I saw after the department stores and other major businesses stopped running ads the paper started running some strange and often dubious ads in their place since those businesses were the ones willing to pay. I can't imagine a different future for network TV as the numbers continue to drop.

JW

unread,
Mar 4, 2021, 5:02:02 AM3/4/21
to tvornottv
For some reason, I always thought of Scottish Conan Guy talking about the correspondent from the Cairo Pennysaver, but it was the Milan Pennysaver.

Tom Wolper

unread,
Mar 4, 2021, 9:56:21 AM3/4/21
to TV or not TV
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:58 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
Definitely. Award show ratings are consistently declining, and no doubt GG would have been down this year no matter what. But the huge decline made so much of by CNN are almost certainly pandemic related, and perhaps the recent stories in the news that have laid bare just what a farce the HFP is.

I noted that several, presenters somewhat desperately repeated like a mantra “during the pandemic all of us have been doing nothing but watching movies and television stuck at home”. Not sure if that is propaganda or self delusion, but clearly most Americans have not been spending their pandemic watching prestige projects (or even that’s ridiculous Sia film). Most of the projects that came anywhere near close to critical mass viewing were not nominated for one reason or another.

There is a basic assumption here and it doesn't have to do with the Golden Globes or the Hollywood Foreign Press Association. It has to do with how the news media cover ratings. The assumption is that there is a stable baseline of viewers who will tune in to watch year after year. If more people watch it doesn't seem newsworthy but if there is a drop in viewers it makes news. So pundits, analysts, commentators, and even we look at the broadcast and try to point out what went wrong. The implication is if they fix what went wrong the viewership would return to the baseline. If the pundit, et al, say the problem is the host, change the host and the viewers will return. If the problem is the musical numbers, change the musical numbers and the viewers will return. If the nominees are too far from the mainstream change the nominees, etc. And the big claim behind the drop is the disruption caused by the pandemic. When that disruption ends the ratings will go back up.

I assert that this year's rating is the new baseline. That's the real number of people who will tune in to watch year after year no matter the host or nominees. Tweaks to the presentation of the show or the end of the pandemic aren't going to bring the old number of viewers back. The reason for this is the erosion of relevance of network TV in the current media landscape.

PGage

unread,
Mar 4, 2021, 5:46:20 PM3/4/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
I Agree with you about all of these ratings discussions except this year during the pandemic. 

For some years now I have been posting here after every major sports or awards event that has falling ratings that gets attributed to politics or whatnot that that is mostly noise, and the signal has been a steady fall in the number of Americans watching TV. My argument has been that for these discussions what is really relevant is the percent decline in ratings, compared both to other major events that year, and to that event’s rate of decline over last decade. 

Almost certainly the GG ratings would have been worse this year than last year regardless, but also almost certainly not as bad as they were in this pandemic year. My prediction is that The next GG show that takes place after a mostly opened up society will have ratings higher that this year but lower than last year, roughly on the line of historical declines in ratings prior to the pandemic.

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 at 6:56 AM Tom Wolper <two...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 3, 2021 at 12:58 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:

I assert that this year's rating is the new baseline. That's the real number of people who will tune in to watch year after year no matter the host or nominees. Tweaks to the presentation of the show or the end of the pandemic aren't going to bring the old number of viewers back. The reason for this is the erosion of relevance of network TV in the current media landscape.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.

Tom Wolper

unread,
Mar 5, 2021, 1:25:46 PM3/5/21
to TV or not TV
On Thu, Mar 4, 2021 at 5:46 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
I Agree with you about all of these ratings discussions except this year during the pandemic. 

For some years now I have been posting here after every major sports or awards event that has falling ratings that gets attributed to politics or whatnot that that is mostly noise, and the signal has been a steady fall in the number of Americans watching TV. My argument has been that for these discussions what is really relevant is the percent decline in ratings, compared both to other major events that year, and to that event’s rate of decline over last decade. 

Almost certainly the GG ratings would have been worse this year than last year regardless, but also almost certainly not as bad as they were in this pandemic year. My prediction is that The next GG show that takes place after a mostly opened up society will have ratings higher that this year but lower than last year, roughly on the line of historical declines in ratings prior to the pandemic.

INtuitively that makes sense. But we have two data points, last year and this year's ratings, and there's no way to prove what this year's ratings would be without the pandemic. If the pandemic started a year ago went away after two or three months then things would have snapped back to "normal" and we would expect the ratings to follow historical trends. But this disruption has gone on long enough to break habits and automatically made choices. And once the habit is broken it doesn't just reappear when the circumstances change. There are a lot of factors that would point to the opportunity for the Golden Globes to be a smash hit this year: It's a live event, it's airing for free, and the largest number of Americans ever are sitting at home looking for something to do. The fact that so few chose to watch tells me that the actual number of viewers is as much as they were going to get.

PGage

unread,
Mar 5, 2021, 3:59:02 PM3/5/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
No way to prove, but I think we can make a reasonable inference. Ticket sales at my local theater were down in 2020, and I guess its possible they will continue at that level after the pandemic, but I think its reasonable to infer they will go back up. I’m not saying the inference is as strong for major television events, but still reasonable.

This is why I included a hypothesis (a specific, testable prediction). If GGA ratings go up next time, but are still lower than the time before, I will be right; if they stay the same or go down, then you will be.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.

Tom Wolper

unread,
Mar 6, 2021, 12:53:22 PM3/6/21
to TV or not TV
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 3:59 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote:
No way to prove, but I think we can make a reasonable inference. Ticket sales at my local theater were down in 2020, and I guess its possible they will continue at that level after the pandemic, but I think its reasonable to infer they will go back up. I’m not saying the inference is as strong for major television events, but still reasonable.

This is why I included a hypothesis (a specific, testable prediction). If GGA ratings go up next time, but are still lower than the time before, I will be right; if they stay the same or go down, then you will be.

I want to point out that there is a major difference between activities that have been shut down, like theater and live music, and TV. Of course people will return to those venues as soon as they reopen and it's pointless to draw any conclusions from comparing 2019 attendance to 2020 attendance.

After further reflection (God knows why this takes up any space in my mind) the Golden Globes ceremony was always sold as a big party with a red carpet ceremony and boozing at the tables was encouraged to give an anything-can-happen attitude. All of that was missing this year and that could have depressed viewership. If next year's ceremony can be sold as a celebration of show biz stars getting back together and having a good time that could drive up the number of viewers.

PGage

unread,
Mar 6, 2021, 1:30:48 PM3/6/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Right. But your point is totally plausible as well. TV watching is a behavioral habit, and this pandemic has disrupted so many behavioral patterns. Very hard to say which of the old habits will return unchanged and which won’t. I’m wondering if I will ever go back to wearing real pants again to work.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.

Kevin M.

unread,
Mar 17, 2021, 11:44:16 PM3/17/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Industry publicists tell the Hollywood Foreign Press Association: reform or we will abandon you 

Narrator: But they didn’t abandon the HFPA, because the most dangerous thing to do in Hollywood is deny celebrities a photo op


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Dave Sikula

unread,
Mar 18, 2021, 5:30:29 AM3/18/21
to TVorNotTV
If there are bowling trophies to be gotten, the studios will be there to accept them.

--Dave Sikula

Kevin M.

unread,
Mar 18, 2021, 2:58:14 PM3/18/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
NBC weighs in to say that their lack of comment is not tacit support of HFPA... adding the Globes is no longer profitable for the network. 



On Thu, Mar 18, 2021 at 2:30 AM 'Dave Sikula' via TVorNotTV <tvor...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
If there are bowling trophies to be gotten, the studios will be there to accept them.

--Dave Sikula

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Kevin M.

unread,
Mar 28, 2021, 1:34:25 PM3/28/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
A recent GQ article is making the rounds on social media featuring actor Brendan Fraser’s claims against the HFPA... I’d like to think the writing is in the wall for the Globes, but I’m just not that optimistic 

--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Tom Wolper

unread,
Mar 29, 2021, 10:55:36 AM3/29/21
to TV or not TV
On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 1:34 PM Kevin M. <drunkba...@gmail.com> wrote:
A recent GQ article is making the rounds on social media featuring actor Brendan Fraser’s claims against the HFPA... I’d like to think the writing is in the wall for the Globes, but I’m just not that optimistic 


For years we repeatedly report this contradiction: the HFPA is laughably corrupt and the Golden Globes, the fruit of that corruption, have no merit and winning one means nothing. But when the nominations and winners are announced the entertainment media treat it as a meaningful event. It happens every year and nothing is going to break that contradiction. I just stopped commenting on it because it simply repeats.

The heart of the contradiction would be that there is a moral core to the movie and TV business that values truth and eventually the HFPA will have to reform or face consequences like having the Golden Globes fall into obscurity. My conclusion is that the moral core of the business does not exist. I'm not simply being cynical in the way of a rebellious teenager, I mean Hollywood tolerates the contradiction and will take no steps to correct it.

Kevin M.

unread,
Apr 21, 2021, 11:35:51 AM4/21/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Head of the HFPA is out after sending an email referring to BLM as a terrorist organization. Dick Clark Productions finally spoke publicly condemning Berk. 


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

PGage

unread,
Apr 21, 2021, 3:54:09 PM4/21/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
This story has been something. I thought I knew how horrible the old farts at the heart of the HFP were, and realize they were even worse. I read somewhere that even the real life Olivia Pope bailed on them.

Kevin M.

unread,
Oct 12, 2021, 12:26:11 PM10/12/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
Globes to be awarded, but not an NBC

If an award falls in the forest, but there’s nobody there to give an acceptance speech, does it make a sound?


--
Kevin M. (RPCV)

Bob Jersey

unread,
Oct 13, 2021, 12:23:10 PM10/13/21
to TVorNotTV
Same s__t, different topic. Watch your streaming-site news for updates.     B

Kevin M, to PGage and Tom Wolper Oct 12th:

daves...@gmail.com

unread,
Oct 13, 2021, 10:24:14 PM10/13/21
to 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV
I can't imagine this doesn't end up on Peacock or Zombie Quibi or somewhere desperate for content.

--Dave Sikula

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tvornottv/_6vrQHh2Ps4/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit

M-D November

unread,
Oct 13, 2021, 10:55:16 PM10/13/21
to TVorNotTV
You misspelled “Roku Channel”. 

Kevin M.

unread,
Oct 22, 2021, 12:53:46 PM10/22/21
to tvor...@googlegroups.com
HFPA votes to expel longtime member who wanted the reform the group


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/b71b1af5-138c-4cf5-9ae0-f521a5925b22n%40googlegroups.com.
--
Kevin M. (RPCV)
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages