Sydney Light rail

77 views
Skip to first unread message

bblun...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 21, 2024, 7:16:32 PM11/21/24
to TramsDownUnder
There was another car accident derailment on Monday night which seems to have missed media attention.

Inbound tram 25 was hit by a car travelling east on King St and ended up straddling the outbound track. The railway accident unit attended, along with fire units from FRE and FRNSW.

Brian

Greg Sutherland

unread,
Nov 21, 2024, 9:07:01 PM11/21/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com

Was reported on TV news, both Channels 7 and 10. Trams at this location reported as held for three hours while rerailing took place.

Greg

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tramsdownunde...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/616154606.668808.1732234585413%40mail.yahoo.com.

TP

unread,
Nov 21, 2024, 9:35:35 PM11/21/24
to TramsDownUnder
The ol' fulcrum and lever effect on fixed-truck trams with long noses. I wonder if they've joined the dots yet?

Tony P

Geoff Olsen

unread,
Nov 21, 2024, 10:42:15 PM11/21/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com

I suspect not.

 

Geoff O.

Tony Galloway

unread,
Nov 21, 2024, 10:57:58 PM11/21/24
to tramsdownunder
No doubt some actuary has done the sums, and calculated the cost of easy derailment is less than buying better trams.

Nah, just kidding - derailment wasn’t in the sales brochure, therefore not a consideration. 

Just one of those “inconvenient externalities”, best ignored.

Tony

Robert Taaffe

unread,
Nov 21, 2024, 11:20:51 PM11/21/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
Tony G 

Glad to see you back with your insightful comments.

Bob

Matthew Geier

unread,
Nov 22, 2024, 12:22:01 AM11/22/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com

I've heard the driver (of a Toyota Kluger) was charged with running a red light. I wonder if TfNSW/Transdev will make a claim on the car's insurance ?

(I suspect insurance companies are very good at not paying out for damage to government owned assets)

Brian Blunt

unread,
Nov 22, 2024, 1:08:08 AM11/22/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
If the insurer doesn’t come good, they will go directly after the driver/owner. 

The trams should be owned by the operating consortium, not the government? 

On 22 Nov 2024, at 16:22, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Mick Duncan

unread,
Nov 22, 2024, 9:19:49 AM11/22/24
to 'Greg Sutherland' via TramsDownUnder
Gday  All

Assuming it wasent on ballast track.Melb R10 would have had it back in
1/2 Hr or less

Cheers,   Mick,who wonders why modern tramways in OZ make easy things
          so hard

Mal Rowe

unread,
Nov 22, 2024, 5:34:58 PM11/22/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
On 22/11/2024 17:07, 'Brian Blunt' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
>
> The trams should be owned by the operating consortium, not the
> government?


That's a good question.

In Melbourne all the physical infra-structure is owned (or leased) by
the state government via VicTrack.  They even own the brand name of
Yarra Trams.

The franchise agreement includes maintenance requirements on rolling
stock and infrastructure.  A new franchise agreement (MR5) comes into
force on Sunday 1st of December.

I think that only the Siemens fleet is (was?) leased.

Mal Rowe - who will read the detail with interrst.

Richard Youl

unread,
Nov 22, 2024, 6:10:16 PM11/22/24
to TDU
If the vehicles were owned by the operating consortium, upon losing the contract like Keolis did (YIPPEE!!) they could remove them from Australia or simple scrap them all in spite. 

Richard

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tramsdownunde...@googlegroups.com.

Matthew Geier

unread,
Nov 23, 2024, 1:09:35 AM11/23/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com

Sydney has a more than capable Unimog 'recovery truck' that probably is more than capable of pulling the tram back onto the track.

It's not the hardware, its the process.

I watch them attend a pantograph flip at Haymarket Christmas day last year. The crew were there pretty quickly - but took hours to 'secure the site' before they could actually start work. Once they got to actually working on the problem things moved pretty quickly. When I'd arrived the incident was already hours old and they handn't started work yet.

That car collision probably couldn't be touched till the police traffic accident investigation people come out and took their photos and measurements. Then the tram recovery crew are allowed to start work.

bblun...@yahoo.com

unread,
Nov 23, 2024, 5:03:55 PM11/23/24
to 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder
I attended both the previous incidents in Pitt St. I didn't see the Unimog at either of them, so I'd guess it is not equipped for this sort of incident.

The first approach was to try and drive the tram backwards from the other end. But that suspended section is not real good at telling the end module where it needs to go. All it did was increase its angle to the track.
The second approach was to use the ex-STA heavy duty Volvo tow truck to pull the set forward. But with the wheels embedded in the concrete oblique to the rails, that didn't work either.
Eventually, the heavy rail accident crew arrived in two trucks with all sorts of wizardry. I don't know where it is located, or how dispersed the crew members are, but it took about two hours to get there. The module was jacked up to get the wheels clear of the ground, and a series of skates placed underneath; the the car was dragged sideways with chains and hydraulic pullers back to the track and lowered. A quick checkover by the maintenance staff, and the trams were driven away. The second incident took 4 hours from reported occurrence to site clearance; the first may have been longer.

There didn't appear to have been any protracted electrical isolation, other than dropping the pans.


Mal Rowe

unread,
Nov 24, 2024, 12:31:46 AM11/24/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
On 24/11/2024 09:03, 'bblun...@yahoo.com' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
I attended both the previous incidents in Pitt St. I didn't see the Unimog at either of them, so I'd guess it is not equipped for this sort of incident.

The first approach was to try and drive the tram backwards from the other end. But that suspended section is not real good at telling the end module where it needs to go. All it did was increase its angle to the track.

The missing tool (as Mick Duncan will confirm) is 'pyramid plates' as shown in the attached pic.

Careful placement and a liberal coating of grease points the derailed truck in the right direction when the tram is nudged.

Having said that, fixed trucks make that a bit harder!

Mal Rowe who wonders if a Melbourne study tour is in order for the Sydney breakdown crew

205andPyramidPlates_RoyalPark_14Jan2015.JPG

Andrew Highriser

unread,
Nov 24, 2024, 3:53:22 AM11/24/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
I've seen these plates used countless times for derailed trams and they just work, including for fixed bogie D class trams. It is quite alarming to watch as the tram is jolted back onto the rails. If the tram can't be driven back on the tracks, I would expect a one hour delay to a tram route. Half an hour for the crew to arrive and half an hour to rerail the tram. 

Andrew.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TramsDownUnder" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tramsdownunde...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/0b5003d0-fe94-48c6-935f-7e3c6fa91eed%40gmail.com.

Richard Youl

unread,
Nov 24, 2024, 4:03:47 AM11/24/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
Very interesting thanks Andrew.  It is another example of “Modern light rail” shooting themselves in the foot because they “Don’t have trams”. If heavy rail does not use it, it does not exist. 

If you don’t mind, I will send on your words to TDU along with something like I have written above. 

Cheers,

Richard

On 24 Nov 2024, at 6:53 PM, Andrew Highriser <andrewhi...@gmail.com> wrote:



Mick Duncan

unread,
Nov 27, 2024, 4:52:20 AM11/27/24
to 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder
Gday  Matthew, All

When I was on the Trams and AFAIK its still the case that unless someone is injured in a prang,the police dont have to be notified-in Vic

So the probs in Sydney are govt red tape,not the breakdown crew,those Unimogs
are ugly but capable little beasts

Cheers,    Mick

Greg Sutherland

unread,
Nov 27, 2024, 10:54:23 PM11/27/24
to tramsdo...@googlegroups.com

Tram recovery is not a new science.

Take a look at :

Sydney Tram Recovery Trucks

https://www.sydneytramwaymuseum.com.au/members.old/Trolley_Wire/333%20-%20Trolley%20Wire%20-%20May%202013.pdf

P11 – P23

Greg

who has seen a National Sound and Film Archeive ofnthe Karrier in action but can't find it.

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages