Thinking laterally

[Tony Galloway]

Now it’s been demonstrated that the battery powered running on the PLR is unreliable, which in a sane world would mean trying something different rather than the same failed idea again and again, it’s obvious at some time the real solution to this self-inflicted problem will be to put up the wires - like should have been done in the first place.

But in the meantime, if this is to open within our lifetimes, a backup option is needed to keep trams moving when their batteries go flat. A number of NSWR 73 class shunting locos were regauged for use on sugar tramways in Qld. A simple machine with a light axle load, maybe 2 or 3 could be put back on standard gauge bogies and supplied to PLR to pull or push dead trams back under wired sections.

This can’t be a worse idea than using the dodgy battery gimmick in the first place.

Tony

[Mark Skinner]

Not only that, with the amount of concrete and steel reinforcement in the track, surely those nice folks at Thirlmere could be persuaded to lease a locomotive whose technology aligns with fixed trucks on the tram/trailers. 

Z18 class 1803 would do nicely, especially if it were painted to resemble Thomas the Tank Engine. NSW could re-imagine itself as the Island of Sodorf. Employ a Dietarily Enhanced Director to run the show. Think of the tourism! 

Mark Skinner

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[Matthew Geier]

On 10/12/24 14:53, 'Tony Galloway' via TramsDownUnder wrote:
> Now it’s been demonstrated that the battery powered running on the PLR
> is unreliable, which in a sane world would mean trying something
> different rather than the same failed idea again and again, it’s
> obvious at some time the real solution to this self-inflicted problem
> will be to put up the wires - like should have been done in the first
> place.

Almost certainly CAF will suggest retro fitting the intermediate
stations on the 'wirefree' sections with opportunity charging equipment
like they supplied for the Westmead Terminus. At our expense of course.

The 'KISS' method of stringing up overhead will lead to howls of
defiling a heritage precinct with 'ugly wires'. (Not that the road past
Westmead hospital could be by any stretch of the imagination be an
'architecturally sensitive' location.

They do have a shunting tractor for the depot and a Unimog road-rail
that is supposed to be able to tow a crippled tram back.

[Geoff Olsen]

1803 is already painted as Thomas and does duty as such on regular occasions. However getting to steam under its own power would require, among other things, a new boiler.

We are getting off topic a bit here so I will now cease and desist.

Geoff O.

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[espee8800]

Meanwhile Melbourne "struggles along" with its overhead wiring throughout the system. Gosh aren't we a backward system, we have trams that just run and run and run. And I defy anyone to look up and down Swanston Street and claim that the overhead stands out.

Now it’s been demonstrated that the battery powered running on the PLR is unreliable, which in a sane world would mean trying something different rather than the same failed idea again and again, it’s obvious at some time the real solution to this self-inflicted problem will be to put up the wires - like should have been done in the first place.

 

But in the meantime, if this is to open within our lifetimes, a backup option is needed to keep trams moving when their batteries go flat. A number of NSWR 73 class shunting locos were regauged for use on sugar tramways in Qld. A simple machine with a light axle load, maybe 2 or 3 could be put back on standard gauge bogies and supplied to PLR to pull or push dead trams back under wired sections.

--

cheers and best wishes,
David in Avenel.au,    
[Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.]

[Geoff Olsen]

How well I remember the talking head on our TV news when construction of the George St lines was about to begin. “Melbourne will be jealous of our beaut new wire free system.” Yeah, right.

Geoff O.

 

From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tramsdo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of espee8800
Sent: Tuesday, 10 December 2024 3:29 PM
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Thinking laterally

 

Meanwhile Melbourne "struggles along" with its overhead wiring throughout the system. Gosh aren't we a backward system, we have trams that just run and run and run. And I defy anyone to look up and down Swanston Street and claim that the overhead stands out.

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[bblun...@yahoo.com]

How about towing a trailer with a few more batteries 🔋 inside? Could double up as a bicycle trailer. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

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[Tony Galloway]

I apologise for being so sensible.

Don’t forget another steam option - 103A can return from Valley Heights to its home turf, ST&RPS willing. 

Fire it with used cooking oil from all the Church St restaurants and cafes and it’s carbon neutral as well.

Clean steam, and the original “wire free” tramway power.

It could be named “Toby”.

What could possibly go wrong?

Tony

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[Tony Galloway]

On 10 Dec 2024, at 15:14, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

The 'KISS' method of stringing up overhead will lead to howls of defiling a heritage precinct with 'ugly wires'. (Not that the road past Westmead hospital could be by any stretch of the imagination be an 'architecturally sensitive' location.

Yeah, like demolishing a popular historic pub really enhanced the “architectural sensitivity” of that location.

I don’t think wiring it all the way would cause too much trouble, and battery related disruptions would be more unpopular. A hot (eg, every future) summer causing trams to stall when the AC used up all the battery power would demand a quick solution, and overhead wiring would be easier and cheaper to install than extra ground level charging.

The usual bed wetters about this stuff would make noise for a while, but then they would run out of puff and no-one would care. Like with the residents along the L1 who said running trams there would be noisy and intrusive (they live under flight paths ffs) this “intrusiveness” is a non-issue now. Everyone along the L1 now accepts it as part of the landscape and many think it has “always been there”.

And sooner or later, as with the George St APS, someone will do the sums on excess operating costs, and consider the disadvantages of persisting with power supply systems that lock in particular rolling stock builders, and decide that a couple of wires over a street aren’t that ugly after all.

 I remain an optimist….

Tony

[espee8800]

Well I'm with you Tony. They should be asked in real time whether they would prefer a wire hanging up with trams running constantly or the present system where the trams only run when they feel like it.

Virus-free.www.avg.com

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[Tony Galloway]

On 10 Dec 2024, at 15:14, 'Matthew Geier' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

The 'KISS' method of stringing up overhead will lead to howls of defiling a heritage precinct with 'ugly wires'. (Not that the road past Westmead hospital could be by any stretch of the imagination be an 'architecturally sensitive' location.

[Mark Skinner]

Or...TfNSW will, using its 'expertise', advise the government that the best solution to the problem would be 'Trackless trams!'

Initially, just from Circular Quay to Town Hall. Then to Central. Then...well anyone who observed bustitution in the 1950s knows how it ends up.

If we don't stop the deliberate and unnecessary costs imposed on trams, it's easy to make an economic case for scrapping them and replacing them with trackless trams etc.

Like I said, Ministerial responsibility and an inquiry into TfNSW is the only way to keep trams in NSW. Their approach is one that makes trams totally uneconomic.

Mark Skinner 

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[Geoffrey Hansen]

Doesn't the Newcastle Light Rail run off batteries? 

Regards 

Geoffrey 

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[Matthew Geier]

On 12/12/24 09:28, Geoffrey Hansen wrote:
> Doesn't the Newcastle Light Rail run off batteries?

Super-Capacitors mostly. There is a battery they call a 'range extender'
that can get the tram back to the depot from the furthest end of the
line.  The battery pack on a CAF is modular, and they can mix-n-match
capacitor and battery modules - the NCL trams are mostly capacitor.

They have had a number of issues. The pantographs and the charge bars
get arc pitting. They had to replace the carbons with copper strips. The
trams used to be able to move with the pantograph raised, but after
changing the rubbing strips (and in incident where a raised pantograph
hit the shed) they can no longer move if the pantograph is raised.

How they would extend the system with overhead is unknown, some of these
changes would have to be reversed.

The charging current was found to be causing magnetic fields in excess
of Australian standards for magnetic radiation - so the charging current
was halved.

The trams have suffered from overheating of their capacitor packs and
other roof equipment as the average speed is so low they don't get
proper airflow over the roof. The drivers AC unit was blasting hot air
at the first capacitor bank too.

The NCL track has more of one direction curve than the other, and there
is no facility to turn the trams so the bogies are being swapped more
often than would otherwise be required to deal with asymmetric wear of
the wheel sets.


The Sydney Tramway Museum at Loftus has more track than the NLC tram and
can turn trams around to even out the wheel wear.