Overseas systems

[pn1]

I am in Singapore for the last two days our nine week adventure.

A strong public transport focus for sure but a reasonable mix between on 80% and off 20% topics activities, adventures and experiences.

Tram and light rail systems experienced:

San Francisco, Sacramento, Boston, Brussels, Antwerp, Ghent, De Panne/Knokke, Charleroi, Düsseldorf, Koln, Bonn, Duisburg, Karlsruhe, Stuttgart, Leipzig, Bad Schandau, Most, Prague and Brno.

Plus trolleybuses in San Francisco, Teplice, Chomutov, Usti Nad Labem, Ceske Budejovice and Brno.

We visited the tram museum in Brussels and rode the heritage tram service. We also rode the heritage tram service in Prague.

Karlsruhe, hitherto my favourite system, was a disappointment. Like other German systems it was starting to look shabby. Stuttgart by comparison was immaculate and it was a pleasure to ride its “ distinctive” cars. Brno was a very pleasant surprise.

It was good to make some general comparisons with what we are used to in Melbourne.

The Singapore MRT is as spotless as ever. But it’s hard to find somewhere to sit down and enjoy a cool drink. I’m sipping a Starbucks iced latte as I write this.

Our next adventure in October will be a little light on, traction wise, but I hope we can visit Zaragoza where in 1974 I rode ancient trams and former London Q1 trolleybuses.

Paul in Melbourne

[Mal Rowe]

On 14/08/2022 17:24, pn1 wrote:
> I am in Singapore for the last two days our nine week adventure.

Have you tried the Senkang or Punggol LRT in Singapore?

It looks like an automated airport shuttle but is actually a feeder to
the MRT.

I'm not sure what the R in LRT stands far as it is neither Rail nor
Rapid - more like would have once been called a plateway.

My pic dates from soon after opening - one ride was enough!

Mal

[TP]

Sounds like an excellent transport trip. A more detailed write-up would certainly be good to read after you return Paul.

Brno is an under--recognised system. It carries nearly as many passengers as Melbourne per annum, across 70 route km, with a fleet of just under 300 trams. They have a tradition of doing some of their own work and most of the latest order of 40 trams will be assembled in their own workshops. About $AUD 3.5 million per 30 metre tram.

https://www.railvolution.net/news/forcity-smart-trams-for-brno

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Brno_tramvaje_2009-2.PNG

Tony P

[pn1]

Pretty well the same as your visit Mal!

We rode the Punggol line and in doing so overstayed our time on the system. But the clerk at Woodlands accepted our bona fides and let us through without penalty. 

I agree with TP about Brno and recommend it to anyone in the TDU community.

The world hasn’t yet completely returned to normal, of course, but that should not deter anyone on here getting some overseas coverage. 

Do it now - we are a long time dead! 

Paul

On 14 Aug 2022, at 17:07, TP <histor...@smartchat.net.au> wrote:



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[Tony Galloway]

On 14 Aug 2022, at 18:35, Mal Rowe <mal....@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure what the R in LRT stands far as it is neither Rail nor Rapid - more like would have once been called a plateway.

“Ratshit” would work…..

Tony

[Yuri Sos]

On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 15:24:46 +0800, pn1 wrote on TDU:

>Tram and light rail systems experienced:

>Prague and Brno.

>We also rode the heritage tram service in Prague.

>Brno was a very pleasant surprise.

Looking forward to EU in three weeks, missing Brno but visiting Prague, unfortunately on weekdays, so will see T3s but no other heritage trams.

My last visit to Brno was on the occasion of 150 years of railways in Czechoslovakia just a few months before their Velvet Revolution:

My focus then was on mainline steam, but then had time for these snaps near Brno station.

These weren't heritage in those days! Trams outnumbered cars:
https://gallery.steam4me.net/albums/trams/international/1989_eu/cz_brno_1523_1023_1989-07-08a_09.jpg

A magnificent 2-10-0 at Brno station in the background:
https://gallery.steam4me.net/albums/trams/international/1989_eu/cz_brno_1114_556056_1989-07-08b_27.jpg

This was such a highlight:
https://gallery.steam4me.net/albums/trams/international/1989_eu/cz_brno_stm10_1989-07-08b_16.jpg

Yuri.
--
Gallery at https://tinyurl.com/trams4me
----------------------------------------

[Mark Skinner]

Yuri,

It's not uncommon to see the heritage cars out and about the CBD during the week on tourist charters. You might be lucky. The museum at Střešovice is also open during the week, as is the national technical museum. Too bad missing out on Ostrava and Brno. 

Mark Skinner 

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[Yuri Sos]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:26:20 +0930, Mark Skinner wrote:

>The museum at Stešovice is >also open during the week,

Thanks, Mark, I'd already sussed that out but it's also a weekend-only venue.
(https://www.dpp.cz/en/entertainment-and-experience/dpp-history/public-transport-museum)

[Yuri Sos]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 12:10:38 +1000, Yuri Sos wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:26:20 +0930, Mark Skinner wrote:
>
>>The museum at Stešovice is >also open during the week,
>
>Thanks, Mark, I'd already sussed that out but it's also a weekend-only venue.
>(https://www.dpp.cz/en/entertainment-and-experience/dpp-history/public-transport-museum)

BUT....

Browsing the National Technical Museum website (open MoX), I see a note for reduced entry fee on Wednesday 28 Sep.

I wonder why.

So on a hunch, I look up Czech public holidays - 28 September is Czech Statehood Day - a public holiday.

We're in Prague 27-29 September!

Sorted.

Thank you for your post - you spurred me to go back and check dates.

Yuri.

(oh dear, now to tell SWMBO........ "living in interesting times")

[TP]

You're in luck Yuri that it's during the summer school holidays so more attractions are up and running (for international tourists - the Czechs themselves head for the countryside or Croatia!). You might wish to follow the links on the left side of the page below that indicate that some of the heritage lines are in fact run during the week too:

https://www.dpp.cz/en/entertainment-and-experience/dpp-history/public-transport-museum

The heritage operation has become very big since I was there - almost a parallel system with a fleet larger than those of many public tram systems! Obviously they've learnt to trade on one of the city's major assets. Always best to take a ride during afternoon peak. It's quite exciting riding an ancient four-wheeler that has to keep up with the rush of regular service trams. On the other side of the coin, ride a Skoda 15T, it's a necessary reference point when looking at any other modern tram. Try one of the long-legged suburban lines like Barrandov or Modrany.

Tony P

[Mark Skinner]

I was on Narodní Třida lined up for an ice cream a couple of years ago,  when a couple of single truckers came one way, and another couple and a "submarine" the other.  Not a modern tram in sight.

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[Matthew Geier]

I'm in Germany and France for most of September myself. Leave next week
and touch down in Munich on Friday.

Many Stadtbahn and Straßenbahn on the agenda.

And we are spending a few days in Nancy, who have that 'neither fish nor
fowl' TVR system of 'guided trolley buses'. (Scheduled to be replaced
with a 'real' tramway I gather).

[p...@bigpond.com]

Nancy is well worth a visit Matthew.

In Germany, be prepared for crowded trains because of the Nine Euro monthly ticket. Bus trams and other urban transport appeared to be more or less "business as usual".

Will you be in Munich for Oktoberfest? Off topic for sure but an unforgettable experience!

Paul in Melbourne

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[Yuri Sos]

Nine euro deal expires 31 August.

Yuri 

[Robert Taaffe]

In case people do not know, Arthur Perry, aka Trolley Pole, died on saturday, age 91. RIP.

Bob T

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[Matthew Geier]

The 9€ deal ends this month. We arrive 4 days before the end of the month.

We leave Munich well before the festival starts. Neither of us finds the idea of being in a city full of drunk tourists the slightest bit attractive. (Do not drink beer).

We once visited Pilsen. Normally people go visit the famous brewery. We visited the Škoda Transport factory instead. (And saw 15T trams under construction).

My wife is into ecclesiastical architecture. So it's trams and churches.

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[Mick Duncan]

Gday  All

Sorry to hear Arthur has gone to the great Tram depot in heaven

Ive known Arthur for about 55 yrs and he was a great bloke with a good
sense of humour

He was willing to share his knowledge of electrical stuff and his
collections of dwgs I found very useful

Vale Arthur

Cheers,    Mick

[p...@bigpond.com]

Yes; Arthur was one of the most colourful of the colourful tramway identities. Supported, always, by his lovely wife Norma. I presume Norma is still with us?

Arthur was a man of the tramways through and through. He is often featured in photos of Sydney tram closures - and was one of the pioneer visitors to Australian tramway systems that few enthusiasts got to (such as Fremantle and Launceston().

AWP was also well known for his distinctive attire and refused to wear a tie although I understand he relented, under pressure, once (and once only?) during an "official" visit to senior tramway personnel in Brisbane.

Arthur was also a champion of the temperance movement and didn't believe it was appropriate for tramway enthusiasts to consume alcohol.

Paul in Melbourne

-----Original Message-----
From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Mick Duncan
Sent: Monday, 15 August 2022 21:03
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com

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[p...@bigpond.com]

The atmosphere in Munich during Oktoberfest is amazing but, sure, is not to everyone’s taste. Bit like me in Rome last March. I was there for the tramways not anything religious! But, I guess we will all admit to some off topic diversions during our travels (such as my recent attendance at the Andre Rieu concert in Maastricht, NL). Our wives, partners, etc., know, understand and respect the trams always come first!

Happy travels!

Paul in Melbourne  

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[Robert Bracegirdle]

I really wish I’d known him. “Curly”Cross is our favourite character. 

Bob

Robert Bracegirdle

2 Farfields Close 

GAWSWORTH

Cheshire SK11 9RX 

mob: 07711 815903

NO LANDLINE

On 15 Aug 2022, at 12:18, p...@bigpond.com wrote:

Yes; Arthur was one of the most colourful of the colourful tramway identities. Supported, always, by his lovely wife Norma. I presume Norma is still with us?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/001e01d8b098%24cd80d680%2468828380%24%40bigpond.com.

[Tony Galloway]

Sad news.

Thanks Bob.

Tony

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[Mal Rowe]

On 15/08/2022 21:18, p...@bigpond.com wrote:
> Arthur was ... one of the pioneer visitors to Australian tramway systems that few enthusiasts got to (such as Fremantle and Launceston().

I never met Arthur Perry, but know of him as one of the early users of colour slide film.
He has left a legacy of rare colour pictures of trams in the 1950s, including some in the TDU archives thanks to Ian Saxon:

https://tdu.to/i/66269
https://tdu.to/i/66626
https://tdu.to/i/66220

His pictures also featured on Topmill tram calendars.

Mal Rowe grateful

[Jeremy Wainwright]

His association with Topmill puzzled me. I would have thought he might have had some moderating influence on their often woeful captions!

JWW

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From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mal Rowe <mal....@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 16 August 2022 12:28 AM
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] Arthur Perry

On 15/08/2022 21:18, p...@bigpond.com wrote:
> Arthur was ... one of the pioneer visitors to Australian tramway systems that few enthusiasts got to (such as Fremantle and Launceston().

I never met Arthur Perry, but know of him as one of the early users of colour slide film.
He has left a legacy of rare colour pictures of trams in the 1950s, including some in the TDU archives thanks to Ian Saxon:

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftdu.to%2Fi%2F66269&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C7ae698bbd7974614b12b08da7f1e3542%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637962065013339731%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=apIrtSec%2FoJ7xW6156Fb1XzbJXBvPL3p%2FW8QUt6sQk8%3D&amp;reserved=0
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftdu.to%2Fi%2F66626&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C7ae698bbd7974614b12b08da7f1e3542%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637962065013339731%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=bh%2FDIl%2FROBdprl%2F%2Fb7o8VKWlgnv1RpZW2VwY5RzKFmo%3D&amp;reserved=0
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftdu.to%2Fi%2F66220&amp;data=05%7C01%7C%7C7ae698bbd7974614b12b08da7f1e3542%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637962065013339731%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=MW7Y8XrQeLRtyRnrOwe3p7DlMkGgaPpzWG3VKrpY1cQ%3D&amp;reserved=0

His pictures also featured on Topmill tram calendars.

Mal Rowe grateful

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[Yuri Sos]

On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 20:18:10 +1000, Mick Duncan wrote:

>Love the big 2-10-0,and the Steam Dummy,Czech steam in very impressive
>More Steam please
>Cheers,    Mick

Agreed Czech mainline motive power was simply gorgeous!

I'll probably get in trouble with the mods but here we go: that 2-10-0 at Brno station:
https://gallery.steam4me.net/albums/trains/international/1989_cz-150years/cz_brno_5560506_1989-07-08a_01.jpg

And from the official parade of locos, arguably the most beautiful and elegant tank loco you'll ever see:
https://gallery.steam4me.net/albums/trains/international/1989_cz-150years/cz_brno_477043_4-8-4T_1989-07-08a_27.jpg

Yuri.
(scurrying for cover)

[David Batho]

That sounds something like the one off the Venetian 'mainland.’

David

[David Batho]

Sounds like a fair trade-off!

David

[Matthew Geier]

On 16/8/22 15:12, David Batho wrote:
> That sounds something like the one off the Venetian 'mainland.’

Thats a Translor, developed so Clermont-Ferrand could build a tram that
used Michelin products :-) (Clermont-Ferrand being the home of Michelin)

When Lohr Industries got into trouble Alstom was convinced to take it on
(presumably to avoid the embarrassing mid project abandonment of two
Paris lines then under construction).

Alstom have since shutdown the product. Lohr licensed it to the Chinese
before Alstom took it on, but it looks like the Chinese gave up on it too.

Nancy is a Bombardier TVR, but Bombardier abandoned the product many
years ago. Caen had one too - since changed to a 'standard' tramway.
Nancy acquired some of Caen's vehicals to cannibalize for parts.

More recent investigations indicate the Nancy project to replace the TVR
with a tram line has been abandoned due to financial pressures and they
are looking at just buying 'standard' double-articulated trolley buses
to replace the TVR vehicals as they fail and just operate the route as a
trolley bus line - as it was before the TVR. They may have to widen some
of the TVR route lanes so that the driver has a chance of staying in the
lane. :-)

[Ian and Barbara Brady]

I’m so sorry to see this news. He was no doubt responsible for introducing me to the tram/train fraternity, and the AETA, etc. Noel Reed also was at the same school, N Syd Tech.

Sent from my iPad