SW6 Dash canopy

[Logan English]

Hi all,

Just a brief question for someone wise and clever. 

What was the reason for the SW6's having dash canopy lighting as opposed to the more conventional headlights? I understand it was a failure so I hope someone can shed light on the reasoning. 

Kind regards,

Logan

(021) 0825 4513

[David Batho]

Hi Logan,

Should we groan at that pun?!

David

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[Len]

Hi, Logan and other TDU-ers!,

 

“Destination CITY” fifth edition explains that dash canopy lighting was introduced in 1938 with the conversion of several “W2” class trams for the Silver Jubilee of Luna Park, the cars being painted silver.  These dash canopy lights were also fitted to the first “SW6” class car 850, and became standard on new cars entering service.  Several cars of the “W2”, “W3” and “W5” class were similarly treated.

 

Dash canopy lighting proved to be inadequate, so three holes were cut into the canopy as a temporary measure, and standard headlights were progressively re-installed, the conversion program being carried out between 1951 and 1958.  New cars entering service from 1951 onwards received standard headlights.  Dash canopy lighting was, however, re-introduced  for illuminating advertising trams such as 1024.

 

I remember hearing some time in the 1960s from a Camberwell Depot driver that he felt safer at night driving a tram that had dash canopy lighting (especially with the three holes cut into the dash) during World War 2, because such trams did not have the more evident headlight.  Fear of Japanese fighter planes spread as far south as Victoria, apparently.

 

Cheers!

 

Len Millar

[pn1]

Further to Len’s comments, I can just remember “big” cars with dash canopy lighting so the phasing out by 1958 seems accurate. 

I don’t recall seeing a a photo of a W5 with dash canopy lighting. Perhaps Mal has one in his collection? 

I’ve never seen or heard any suggestion that a car with dash canopy lighting should be preserved. 

Paul in Melbourne (wondering who else on here has clear childhood tramway memories - in my case going back to the mid 1950s.)

On 29 Nov 2024, at 11:12, 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tramsdownunder/985BB3BAF55D45C3AB96B29817A70C43%40LenPC.

[Mal Rowe]

I don't know what the reasoning was behind the choice of dash canopy lighting - perhaps it was seen as 'modern'.

Here's a pic by Peter Duckett from the collection of the Melbourne Tram Museum of what I think may have been the only W5 fitted with it.

As you can see in the pic, the illuminated dash was used to display advertising messages; perhaps that was part of the idea.

Mal Rowe - noting that Freight Car 19 was also fitted with dash canopy lighting at one stage.

On 29/11/2024 12:10, 'pn1' via TramsDownUnder wrote:

I don’t recall seeing a a photo of a W5 with dash canopy lighting. Perhaps Mal has one in his collection? 

On 29 Nov 2024, at 11:12, 'Len' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



[Tony Galloway]

Montreal Tramways was a long time user of dash canopy lighting - even put it on PCCS :

For outer suburban routes they used a detachable interurban type headlight :

Maybe that’s what inspired its use in Melbourne.

Tony

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<736_BrunswickDepot_PWDuckett_Melbourne Tram Museum.jpg>

[Hal Cain]

On Fri, Nov 29, 2024 at 12:11 PM 'pn1' via TramsDownUnder <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Further to Len’s comments, I can just remember “big” cars with dash canopy lighting so the phasing out by 1958 seems accurate. 

I don’t recall seeing a a photo of a W5 with dash canopy lighting. Perhaps Mal has one in his collection? 

I don't recall seeing any W5 with dash canopy lighting -- but there's a slight niggle at the back of my mind. Considering that W5s (and some SW6s) ran the whole Sydney Rd service from Brunswick Depot after conversion from cable, photos of Elizabeth St or Sydney Rd would probably be a good place to start checking.

From the early 1950s, I clearly recall W2s 336, 442, 451 (also SW6 889) at Kew Depot with dash canopy lighting; also 607 at Essendon; there were of course plenty of others.

Can someone explain what changes were made to the lighting circuits to accommodate those two extra bulbs for the headlights? Standard headlights had one, dash canopy had three. Melbourne practice for lighting circuits was 6 x 120 volt globes in series per circuit (the nominal supply voltage being of course 600 volts, but running bulbs at less than the rated voltage was supposed to let them last longer).  More bulbs in a circuit would make them dimmer.

Hal Cain, remembering the lights gradually dimming in the evening peak as the tram approached Mont Albert and the overhead voltage dropped

[Mal Rowe]

On 29/11/2024 14:00, Hal Cain wrote:

Can someone explain what changes were made to the lighting circuits to accommodate those two extra bulbs for the headlights? Standard headlights had one, dash canopy had three. Melbourne practice for lighting circuits was 6 x 120 volt globes in series per circuit (the nominal supply voltage being of course 600 volts, but running bulbs at less than the rated voltage was supposed to let them last longer).  More bulbs in a circuit would make them dimmer.

It seems that each dash canopy had 6 lamps and each end was independently switched - see attached diagram.

So there was plenty of lighting - but a green dash was not a great reflector.

What that diagram does not show is how the 'missing' headlight was compensated for in that circuit.

Mal Rowe - noting that the switching would allow both ends or neither end of the dash canopy lights to be on.

[Mal Rowe]

On 29/11/2024 15:30, Mal Rowe wrote:
>
> What that diagram does not show is how the 'missing' headlight was
> compensated for in that circuit.
>

Answering my own question ...

My guess is that there were actually 7 lamps under the canopy with the
centre lamp being the 'missing headlight".

Mal Rowe - inspired after posting.

[Jeremy Wainwright]

Getting back to the question why, my recollection of the received wisdom (picked up in AETA circles in the mid-50s) is that dash canopy lighting was adopted to make the trams more visible to other road users, given that the streets plied by trams were generally well enough lit for the conventional headlight to be of no great benefit to the driver. This theory is supported by Tony G's examples from Montreal, where the livery of the cars would have made practice match theory better than, as Mal has pointed out, was the case with the MMTB's hawthorn green, but where, in the outer reaches, a conventional headlight was a necessity.

JWW

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From: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Mal Rowe <mal....@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 29 November 2024 3:41 PM
To: tramsdo...@googlegroups.com <tramsdo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [TramsDownUnder] SW6 Dash canopy

 

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[billbolt...@gmail.com]

It was a "style" thing for a while and a number of other systems also adopted it, though most abandoned it after a few years,  Montreal Tramways in Canada was a long time user of dash canopy lighting.

[Hal Cain]

Thank you, Mal!  I never realized there were 7 lamps per end, the central one wired the same way as a normal headlamp.

Evidently the dash-canopy lamps (3 on each side of the centre) were a separate circuit at each end, with separate switches (not controlled by the lighting changeover switch).

Now a follow-up question: how many dash canopy globes did W2s and W3s have?

Hal Cain

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